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How Concerned Should We Be?

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On 4/22/2022 at 11:27 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Stretches, both good and bad, at the beginning and end of a season are often times magnified much greater than they should be. They're not different than a sweep in July or August but because fans are more invested and watching more diligently early and late, the bad stretch is magnified. Bad series will always happen. The most concerning thing for me is that La Russa learned nothing from last year and is still obsessed with garcia, distrusting in Vaughn, and oblivious to optimal lineups - instead content with going with his stubborn, illogical and ignorant gut. Strategically this team will have to overcome his incompetence again which is disheartening.

We are 0-8 against blah teams, 7 of which are in our division. There is never a good time for this for a championship hopeful. I will die on the hill believing we went into this funk because TLR gave away that double header in Cleveland. 

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I jumped from 'not concerned yet' to 'can't take my eyes off this train wreck fascinated at how bad it could get' with pretty quickly.  Even though deep down I know even a 2016 level collapse won't lead to a TLR firing.

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Just now, Tnetennba said:

I jumped from 'not concerned yet' to 'can't take my eyes off this train wreck fascinated at how bad it could get' with pretty quickly.  Even though deep down I know even a 2016 level collapse won't lead to a TLR firing.

Yeah. Good teams can have losing streaks. But to have an 8 game losing streak when your pitching has been pretty good because your position players have turned into the Pirates feels like a team showing you who they really are. 

They won't be the worst offensive team in baseball all year. But the players seem uninterested or unable enough to counter a pretty simple game plan against them that top ten seems unlikely.

They may not be the worst defensive team in baseball, but actually they might be.

Mentally, they look equal parts checked out and pressing. Sort of amazing.

Overall, feels like there has been a lot of accomodating, soothing them to get them back. Probably good. But I also feel like real leadership would look like Jose Abreu giving his glove to Vaughn and saying he will DH at this point in his career. Amazing tony was such a hard ass about swinging 3-0 but completely calm about players pissing all over on defense.

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah. Good teams can have losing streaks. But to have an 8 game losing streak when your pitching has been pretty good because your position players have turned into the Pirates feels like a team showing you who they really are. 

They won't be the worst offensive team in baseball all year. But the players seem uninterested or unable enough to counter a pretty simple game plan against them that top ten seems unlikely.

They may not be the worst defensive team in baseball, but actually they might be.

Mentally, they look equal parts checked out and pressing. Sort of amazing.

Overall, feels like there has been a lot of accomodating, soothing them to get them back. Probably good. But I also feel like real leadership would look like Jose Abreu giving his glove to Vaughn and saying he will DH at this point in his career. Amazing tony was such a hard ass about swinging 3-0 but completely calm about players pissing all over on defense.

The lack of leadership seems pretty apparent, lazy and lackadaisical play, mental mistakes galore, continual bad and undisciplined approaches at the plate, etc etc.  Obviously the chairman is responsible for the asshat managing this team into the ground, but the collection of talent the FO assembled has not turned into a great team.  Any change in manager will be overseen by the same people who assembled this mess.  Not to write too many post mortems 20 games into a season, but I don't know where they go from here.  

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Copied from the end of last night's game thread:

Quote

I honestly felt like the Sox were trolling me last night. Cold and windy, manager puts a guy with a .346 OPS at DH, the pitchers walk 11 batters, the hitters making bad swing after bad swing, and two more errors. Burger and Foster are the only guys who looked like they were trying. I got fed up and went to the car when the 5th-6th runs scored. My friends followed about 20 minutes later.

I've been trying to write this off as just a bad stretch compounded by injuries and cold weather but I'm worried that it's something more.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, PorkChopExpress said:

They need something like this with about 90 sections to peel off for each win:

image.png

What was the owner's name in that movie...Rachel Phelps or something like that?  Ages since watching, but one of the best.  Plug we have the Johnny Cueto/Eddie Junkball Harris comp already going.

Edited by caulfield12

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4 hours ago, PorkChopExpress said:

They need something like this with about 90 sections to peel off for each win:

image.png

Need different motivation. Nobody wants to see Jerry naked. :D

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Actually, I think the best analogy is the 2012 Tigers and the 2012 Sox.  I think the Twins are the 2012 Sox and we are the 2012 Tigers.  Twins are likely an 80-84 win team.  Sox might underachieve but I think they will eventually pull ahead of the Twins for good.  I don't think it will come on the last week of the season though.  I think they will be comfortably ahead by mid september.

 

SIDE NOTE: I was at the makeup game in 2012 that the Sox won over the Tigers and I left that game convinced the Sox had basically clinched the division.  That season was a lot of fun in many ways but the end was gutting.

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1 hour ago, Colome's Hat said:

Actually, I think the best analogy is the 2012 Tigers and the 2012 Sox.  I think the Twins are the 2012 Sox and we are the 2012 Tigers.  Twins are likely an 80-84 win team.  Sox might underachieve but I think they will eventually pull ahead of the Twins for good.  I don't think it will come on the last week of the season though.  I think they will be comfortably ahead by mid september.

 

SIDE NOTE: I was at the makeup game in 2012 that the Sox won over the Tigers and I left that game convinced the Sox had basically clinched the division.  That season was a lot of fun in many ways but the end was gutting.

4-11 the last 15.

Addison Reed finally wavered down the stretch run.

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6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

4-11 the last 15.

Addison Reed finally wavered down the stretch run.

This is completely off topic but I think off the top of my head, Reed is the last Sox closer to get to 40 saves. 

 

But yeah, that stretch was brutal.  The Sox spent over 100 days in first that year and the Tigers probably didn't spend more than 30.

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On 4/27/2022 at 6:42 PM, Colome's Hat said:

Actually, I think the best analogy is the 2012 Tigers and the 2012 Sox.  I think the Twins are the 2012 Sox and we are the 2012 Tigers.  Twins are likely an 80-84 win team.  Sox might underachieve but I think they will eventually pull ahead of the Twins for good.  I don't think it will come on the last week of the season though.  I think they will be comfortably ahead by mid september.

 

SIDE NOTE: I was at the makeup game in 2012 that the Sox won over the Tigers and I left that game convinced the Sox had basically clinched the division.  That season was a lot of fun in many ways but the end was gutting.

I dont remember that year too well but i know that exact game you are talking about. Thought we had the division easily

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When does the rebuild begin? The 'years' of sustained success after the last one seem to have come to an end.

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Posted (edited)

I know exactly what must be done to right the ship and I will do it right here and right now….

Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop…

And now we shall see a winning streak… the rise begins.

Edited by hi8is
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1 hour ago, hi8is said:

I know exactly what must be done to right the ship and I will do it right here and right now….

Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop…

And now we shall see a winning streak… the rise begins.

This shit is getting old.

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1 hour ago, hi8is said:

I know exactly what must be done to right the ship and I will do it right here and right now….

Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop…

And now we shall see a winning streak… the rise begins.

But enough about our manager.

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The team mostly needs health. Except for DH this team has a great starting lineup but not much depth in both hitting and starting pitching. 

So with giolito, lynn, moncada, eloy and robert out it not really a great team. 

There are other concerns like the occasional TLR managerial gaffes and age and slow start of abreu but if this team is healthy they should be fine and win the division again pretty easily. 

They just need to be healthy because there is no depth in the upper minors and also because their 5th, 6th and 7th starters are really bad and if they turn into 3, 4 and 5 it doesn't look good. 

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10 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

The team mostly needs health. Except for DH this team has a great starting lineup but not much depth in both hitting and starting pitching. 

So with giolito, lynn, moncada, eloy and robert out it not really a great team. 

There are other concerns like the occasional TLR managerial gaffes and age and slow start of abreu but if this team is healthy they should be fine and win the division again pretty easily. 

They just need to be healthy because there is no depth in the upper minors and also because their 5th, 6th and 7th starters are really bad and if they turn into 3, 4 and 5 it doesn't look good. 

I can’t say this enough. This team is not going to “get healthy”.

They may well be healthier than this, but there will be injuries all year. Lynn will come back, but Kopech will hit an innings limit. One of Cease and Giolito will probably have another muscle injury. Pollock will get hurt again. Robert will probably have another muscle pull. Grandal will probably have some problems.

Last year the white Sox were healthier than 75% of big league teams based on the number of days people spent on the IL, and we spent the whole year saying “but if they get healthy!” The lineup got guys back but Eloy never recovered, and when the lineup got guys back then 3 starting pitchers went down.

Injuries are normal. They will not stop and they will not go away. One or two players healthy compared to now will not suddenly make this a 95 win team. A lot more needs to happen than that.

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@Balta1701 I agree this isn't a 95 win team. Do you think it's a couple healthy players away from a division winning team?

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I can’t say this enough. This team is not going to “get healthy”.

They may well be healthier than this, but there will be injuries all year. Lynn will come back, but Kopech will hit an innings limit. One of Cease and Giolito will probably have another muscle injury. Pollock will get hurt again. Robert will probably have another muscle pull. Grandal will probably have some problems.

Last year the white Sox were healthier than 75% of big league teams based on the number of days people spent on the IL, and we spent the whole year saying “but if they get healthy!” The lineup got guys back but Eloy never recovered, and when the lineup got guys back then 3 starting pitchers went down.

Injuries are normal. They will not stop and they will not go away. One or two players healthy compared to now will not suddenly make this a 95 win team. A lot more needs to happen than that.

I meant somewhat healthy of course. Every team will have some DL trips but if you miss several guys for a month plus or even half a season it is going to get tough. 

If the sox top5-6 hitters play 130+ games each and the top3 starters make 26+ starts the sox should be in good shape. 

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6 hours ago, Chimpton said:

When does the rebuild begin?

Look on the bright side:

If we want to trade some of the most valuable contracts in baseball for solely the best package of prospects featuring only players from a 11 month old MLB Pipeline Top 50...

We have the right guys for the job.

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2 hours ago, hi8is said:

I know exactly what must be done to right the ship and I will do it right here and right now….

Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop Poop…

And now we shall see a winning streak… the rise begins.

Poop? 

image.png

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I was thinking about what it will take to get the ship righted.  Just thinking about wins and losses, if they go 7-3 over their next 10 (which seems like an impossible task right now), they'll be at .500.  I fear that we'll continue to see a win here, two losses there for a while before the teams gets their heads out of their asses and some of the hurt guys come back.  Being a .500 team by game 35 or so is a must in my mind.

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56 minutes ago, Texsox said:

@Balta1701 I agree this isn't a 95 win team. Do you think it's a couple healthy players away from a division winning team?

 

 

I’m not sure at all right now.

This team being banged up, I expected. The manager giving away games inexplicably- totally planned for. The expensive bullpen not being as good as the price tag - totally expected.

Guys who are reliable defenders seemingly not being in the game at all? The seeming lack of focus? The dramatic change in approaches at the plate - huge dropoff in patience - did not expect that. The way the White Sox have been maximally hurt by the new ball due to their type of contact - did not see that coming.

There’s some stuff here that is way worse than expected. I don’t know what is going on with the behind the scenes part so I don’t know if that’s fixable, and I don’t know why their approach at the plate got worse or if their hitting coach can help them adapt to this baseball. Those things have to be improved before this is even a .500 team.

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18 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

I was thinking about what it will take to get the ship righted.  Just thinking about wins and losses, if they go 7-3 over their next 10 (which seems like an impossible task right now), they'll be at .500.  I fear that we'll continue to see a win here, two losses there for a while before the teams gets their heads out of their asses and some of the hurt guys come back.  Being a .500 team by game 35 or so is a must in my mind.

The upcoming schedule is brutal.  You combine that with the Twins next month of games or so and this could get very ugly.

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