ChiSox59 Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 43 minutes ago, Flash said: Does the division really suck? Yes. Yes it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxForce2 Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Flash said: Sox are not a team in the sense model organizations (Cardinals, Rays, Astros, others) are. The Sox are a collection of individual contributors, each with enough talent to tease a bit of optimism but each with flaws to their game. Be it mental/physical toughness, lack of range, poor plate discipline, poor pitch recognition or just weak in fundamentals, this bunch is lacking throughout the lineup. There appears to be no 'team culture' , no veteran leadership, no camaraderie and no sense of playing for one another. For periods of time, you can mask team flaws with pitching excellence. When Gio, Lynn, Cease and Kopech are 'right' Sox have a better than fighting chance at a W but not signing Rodon changed the calculus and shines the spotlight back on the position players...a group of individuals who show up and collect paychecks. The Steinbrenner, Martin, Munson, Jackson 1977 Yankees clubhouse/dugout wasn't exactly a 'Let's All Sing Kumbayah' atmosphere - in fact, most would think that it was a toxic set-up. However, for that team, at that time - they had a winning chemistry. They were a team - just not in a traditional sense. OTH the 1979 Pirates were literally singing 'We Are Family' and rode that momentum to a World Series win. The Pirates ballpark was an intimidating place to play when the crowd got into that groove with the team itself. Obviously, Willie Stargell going all Big Daddy didn't hurt. The point being, these were *teams*, regardless of differences in tone and character. I don't see that so far this year. Abreu's early spring training statement was almost negating, it wasn't far from declaring a non-commital position. Pito has been the leader of the Sox for awhile and getting a not necessarily all-in signal from him is puzzling. The center hasn't held. Maybe we need to bring Billy Hamilton back into the dugout and get some rock-paper-scissors going again. Edited April 24, 2022 by FoxForce2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewick Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 As a life long Sox fan, I gotta say this is the first time I can remember being so uninvested in a regular season. Maybe it's due to the high expectations of postseason baseball, and now with all the injuries piling up. Plenty of time to right the ship but being a Sox fan it feels like the glass is always half empty 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 23 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yes. Yes it does. Maybe so but short of 1B and C, I'd pretty much give the other positional advantages to the Twins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Flash said: Maybe so but short of 1B and C, I'd pretty much give the other positional advantages to the Twins. I wouldn’t. I’d take Moncada over Urshela. AV over Larnach. Our entire (healthy) pitching staff for the most part over theirs. The Twins are going to be a .500ish ball club and that’s likely our best competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Ewick said: As a life long Sox fan, I gotta say this is the first time I can remember being so uninvested in a regular season. Maybe it's due to the high expectations of postseason baseball, and now with all the injuries piling up. Plenty of time to right the ship but being a Sox fan it feels like the glass is always half empty 17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: VV is a curious choice to get the beat of the team from. He obviously was a waste of $3 million. He is no better than anyone they could call up from AAA. His starts are basically surrenders unless the offense scores a crazy amount of runs. I have heard both TV and radio mention the short spring training hampered any changes they wanted to make with him, although they signed him knowing spring training would be short. If the Sox fail this year, and really it's only been a bad week, the failure occurred during the winter when for whatever reason, JR not wanting to spend more, RH and KW thinking all the heavy lifting was done, or crazily thinking La Russa was worth a ton of wins. We have known for Yeats some of these guys get hurt all the time. You were short a starter with Lynn and is bad knee healthy. That did not work. VV being successful was a pipedream. Tony winning you more games with his decisions tan costing you games was very debatable last year. To think that would improve is nuts. I still think this is a good team and will have a good season. But playing like the Twins did last season is a possibility. Nothing other than the speed in which it happened should surprise anyone. Eloy, Mocada, Robert, Pollack hurt. Lynn with a bad knee. VV a gas can. Those were all easy bets. Edited April 24, 2022 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 7 hours ago, Tnetennba said: Serious question. This team is just horrible on the road. It's why I wanted the HFA last year so badly. I have no idea why a team could be so different on the road than at home but at this point maybe they need a hypnotist. Their heads are so screwed up. I never would have thought that Abreu musing about his retirement could actually make the whole team act as if they were ready to retire and get as many injuries as if they were old people running around out there. I'm not saying Abreu set some kind of tone with his comments because each player is responsible for their own attitude, but it has made me wonder. Other than that I will now join the chorus. Fuck Tony La LA LA LA LA Russa-land 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Flash said: Does the division really suck? Right now all of baseball is average. Only Cincinnati sucks. In one week , just about any team can go from 1st to last with a winning or losing streak. It will probably take 30 games before we start to see some trends. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 In reality, the manager looks like he has lost this team. Abreu is talking about leaving after being a guy who was on the opposite end of the spectrum. Tim Anderson looks absolutely lost in the field like he has never been in his career and is frustrated and angry. All of MLB is laughing and mocking the Leury slotting. Our most consistent hitter in Vaughn keeps getting benched as a weak side platoon player. The pitching staff has regressed and the guys who aren't good has slid into moments of self destruction on the mound while being left out there to die to cover up for the mountains of injuries. They get to see move after move that isn't emphasizing winning, but some obtuse plan preconceived before the game. Weak hitters left in games in clutch situations with actual star hitters available, instead of trying to steal wins. If only we had some sort of Hall of Famer guy in our organization who could get through to these guys. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: In reality, the manager looks like he has lost this team. Abreu is talking about leaving after being a guy who was on the opposite end of the spectrum. Tim Anderson looks absolutely lost in the field like he has never been in his career and is frustrated and angry. All of MLB is laughing and mocking the Leury slotting. Our most consistent hitter in Vaughn keeps getting benched as a weak side platoon player. The pitching staff has regressed and the guys who aren't good has slid into moments of self destruction on the mound while being left out there to die to cover up for the mountains of injuries. They get to see move after move that isn't emphasizing winning, but some obtuse plan preconceived before the game. Weak hitters left in games in clutch situations with actual star hitters available, instead of trying to steal wins. If only we had some sort of Hall of Famer guy in our organization who could get through to these guys. Don't sugar coat it man. Give it to me straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted April 24, 2022 Author Share Posted April 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: In reality, the manager looks like he has lost this team. Abreu is talking about leaving after being a guy who was on the opposite end of the spectrum. Tim Anderson looks absolutely lost in the field like he has never been in his career and is frustrated and angry. All of MLB is laughing and mocking the Leury slotting. Our most consistent hitter in Vaughn keeps getting benched as a weak side platoon player. The pitching staff has regressed and the guys who aren't good has slid into moments of self destruction on the mound while being left out there to die to cover up for the mountains of injuries. They get to see move after move that isn't emphasizing winning, but some obtuse plan preconceived before the game. Weak hitters left in games in clutch situations with actual star hitters available, instead of trying to steal wins. If only we had some sort of Hall of Famer guy in our organization who could get through to these guys. It has to be something behind the scenes leading to this, right? They came out of the gates fine but just crashed & burned in Cleveland and have cratered since. Whatever duct tape & super glue that held them together through massive team injury last season doesn’t seem to be there this year either. Did TLR lose the team < a month in or is this just an extension of the miserable 2nd half of last year? Was the 2021 first half the mirage and everything after the real reality? IDK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 18 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: It has to be something behind the scenes leading to this, right? They came out of the gates fine but just crashed & burned in Cleveland and have cratered since. Whatever duct tape & super glue that held them together through massive team injury last season doesn’t seem to be there this year either. Did TLR lose the team < a month in or is this just an extension of the miserable 2nd half of last year? Was the 2021 first half the mirage and everything after the real reality? IDK. Look losing streaks happen. This is baseball. But this looks different. We will find out soon enough what reality is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) Let's start with the Reinsdorfian school of thought that "organizations win championships" and run with that.... Addendum: And from what I have read, the posters to this thread did exactly that. Well Done. These posts are excellent. Edited April 24, 2022 by GradMc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 2 hours ago, wegner said: Our Sox are 2-6 within the division. I realize it's very early but yikes. That will improve starting next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Flash said: Maybe so but short of 1B and C, I'd pretty much give the other positional advantages to the Twins. What?!? Man, there’s some bad takes on this site lately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Some of you need to put this in perspective. Our record is not terrible despite the circumstances. I’m sorry, but 6-8 for less than 10% of the season is no big deal either way. The 2001 team, not nearly as talented as this one, but also coming off of a division title, started out 8-19. Royce Clayton hit about .100 for three months and David Wells was all but a complete bust. That team still finished 83-79. This team is extraordinarily talented on paper and has an unreal amount of injuries. The division is still very weak. I think I’ll be worried if we go 10 games under .500 over the first 60, but as for right now, I simply want everyone to get and stay healthy by June 1 (except Eloy who will be out til probably late June). As long as we stay within a few games of .500 while half our team is on the IL we should still coast to the division. Our only focus needs to be identifying needs to add at the deadline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Flash said: Sox are not a team in the sense model organizations (Cardinals, Rays, Astros, others) are. The Sox are a collection of individual contributors, each with enough talent to tease a bit of optimism but each with flaws to their game. Be it mental/physical toughness, lack of range, poor plate discipline, poor pitch recognition or just weak in fundamentals, this bunch is lacking throughout the lineup. There appears to be no 'team culture' , no veteran leadership, no camaraderie and no sense of playing for one another. For periods of time, you can mask team flaws with pitching excellence. When Gio, Lynn, Cease and Kopech are 'right' Sox have a better than fighting chance at a W but not signing Rodon changed the calculus and shines the spotlight back on the position players...a group of individuals who show up and collect paychecks. THIS is the best post I have ever read on this site. The brute honesty which REAL fans bring to the table. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 2 hours ago, FoxForce2 said: The Steinbrenner, Martin, Munson, Jackson 1977 Yankees clubhouse/dugout wasn't exactly a 'Let's All Sing Kumbayah' atmosphere - in fact, most would think that it was a toxic set-up. However, for that team, at that time - they had a winning chemistry. They were a team - just not in a traditional sense. OTH the 1979 Pirates were literally singing 'We Are Family' and rode that momentum to a World Series win. The Pirates ballpark was an intimidating place to play when the crowd got into that groove with the team itself. Obviously, Willie Stargell going all Big Daddy didn't hurt. The point being, these were *teams*, regardless of differences in tone and character. I don't see that so far this year. Abreu's early spring training statement was almost negating, it wasn't far from declaring a non-commital position. Pito has been the leader of the Sox for awhile and getting a not necessarily all-in signal from him is puzzling. The center hasn't held. Maybe we need to bring Billy Hamilton back into the dugout and get some rock-paper-scissors going again. Reggie's squads were all toxic while winning five rings in seven years. Quite a resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Flash said: Sox are not a team in the sense model organizations (Cardinals, Rays, Astros, others) are. The Sox are a collection of individual contributors, each with enough talent to tease a bit of optimism but each with flaws to their game. Be it mental/physical toughness, lack of range, poor plate discipline, poor pitch recognition or just weak in fundamentals, this bunch is lacking throughout the lineup. There appears to be no 'team culture' , no veteran leadership, no camaraderie and no sense of playing for one another. For periods of time, you can mask team flaws with pitching excellence. When Gio, Lynn, Cease and Kopech are 'right' Sox have a better than fighting chance at a W but not signing Rodon changed the calculus and shines the spotlight back on the position players...a group of individuals who show up and collect paychecks. I couldn’t disagree with this post more regarding some players. Jose Abreu bleeds White Sox colors and is always cited as an example of veteran leadership by everyone inside and outside of the organization. I think the success of TA and the White Sox are completely symbiotic and they are loyal to each other. Vaughn has played less than a season and he looks utterly legit as a hitter and has played his ass off at every position they have put him at. Lynn loves it here and frequently cited how much he’s thrilled he’s finally found a home. Despite the bullshit the Sox have put Giolito through in the off-season, I get the sense he still loves this team, its fans, and his teammates. I think there is absolutely a culture of this team and clubhouse and I think it’s a great one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, pcq said: Reggie's squads were all toxic while winning five rings in seven years. Quite a resume. Doesn’t sound like the World champs clubhouse was all roses either https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/braves-star-ronald-acuna-jr-sheds-light-on-rocky-relationship-with-freddie-freeman-says-he-wont-miss-him/amp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) "Organizations win championships". This began as a Reinsdorf-Krause clap-back to arguably the best player-coach combo in NBA history. Unfortunately for the fanbases of both the Bulls and Sox, it's had the decades long unintended consequence of painting the Reinsdorf organizations as toxic - to be avoided at all costs by elite front office decisions makers and on-field difference makers. Edited April 24, 2022 by GradMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted April 24, 2022 Author Share Posted April 24, 2022 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: Look losing streaks happen. This is baseball. But this looks different. We will find out soon enough what reality is. Oh I agree, this looks different. Losing streaks happen, and even good teams have brutal stretches. But this is something else. I'm just thinking out loud trying to get to what it is/what it could be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 10 hours ago, Tnetennba said: Serious question. Too many injuries. Lousy Manager. Lousy front office. Too many 1B/DH types playing out of position. The players they expected to be their "core" to build around did not pan out to be as good as they thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Flash said: Sox are not a team in the sense model organizations (Cardinals, Rays, Astros, others) are. The Sox are a collection of individual contributors, each with enough talent to tease a bit of optimism but each with flaws to their game. Be it mental/physical toughness, lack of range, poor plate discipline, poor pitch recognition or just weak in fundamentals, this bunch is lacking throughout the lineup. There appears to be no 'team culture' , no veteran leadership, no camaraderie and no sense of playing for one another. For periods of time, you can mask team flaws with pitching excellence. When Gio, Lynn, Cease and Kopech are 'right' Sox have a better than fighting chance at a W but not signing Rodon changed the calculus and shines the spotlight back on the position players...a group of individuals who show up and collect paychecks. What a great post! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 44 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: What?!? Man, there’s some bad takes on this site lately. Respectfully - what positions (non-pitcher) do you favor Sox player vs. Twins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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