Would you rather . . .

[Jack Parkman]

26 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

My only concern...if they don't make the playoffs this season...that JR kills payroll and the window is officially closed. IF they get the excitement of a big second half run, revenue surely will be great and give more flexibility for 2023 and beyond.   That being said, i hate TLR. 

I think that's a given. 

[RG23SoxFan]

6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It's just a hypothetical scenario so the question specifies an either/or where they get to playoffs and knocked out and LaRussa returns or we miss the playoffs but LaRussa is gone.

I voted to make the playoffs though.

So what does LaRussa not returning in 2023(which I would be in favor) promise?  If there was a guarantee LaRussa is gone in 2023 and they win the World Series then yes I would sacrifice not making the playoffs this season.  Short of that I will take the playoffs any season they can get there.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am always going to take a playoff appearance.  Always.

This.  I can never root against this team.  I would probably take another couple losses in a row if meant a midseason change, but know its a pipe dream so I'd rather they just win. 

[Bob Sacamano]

Win in spite of him please.

[RibbieRubarb]

I will always vote for the Sox to succeed. First choice.

[EloyJenkins]

Guys...I found the solution to all the woes...

[Tony]

Surprised by some of the responses here. No one is wrong, just surprised. 

I'd ask this question to the group after seeing some of the comments: 

 

You're told from 2022-2026, the Sox will win the World Series one time, but not make the playoffs in any other year. Or, the Sox make the playoffs every year from 2022-2026, but you know they don't win the World Series. 

What's your choice? 

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

Surprised by some of the responses here. No one is wrong, just surprised. 

I'd ask this question to the group after seeing some of the comments: 

 

You're told from 2022-2026, the Sox will win the World Series one time, but not make the playoffs in any other year. Or, the Sox make the playoffs every year from 2022-2026, but you know they don't win the World Series. 

What's your choice? 

Former. 

We should all be careful what we wish for, because if the Sox miss the playoffs this year, payroll is getting slashed significantly. 

Like for 2023, expect dumpster diving acquisitions to fill holes, along with Giolito/Lynn getting traded at the very least, if not Moncada as well. And we won't like the returns some of them. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

Surprised by some of the responses here. No one is wrong, just surprised. 

I'd ask this question to the group after seeing some of the comments: 

 

You're told from 2022-2026, the Sox will win the World Series one time, but not make the playoffs in any other year. Or, the Sox make the playoffs every year from 2022-2026, but you know they don't win the World Series. 

What's your choice? 

I'd take the multiple playoffs.  But I probably wouldn't watch much baseball if I knew the outcomes.  

I know that wasn't the hypothetical, but you just gotta get in and you never know. 

Honestly, best case scenario is probably Sox win the WS this year in spite of LaRussa and he rides off into the sunset with another ring, and Sox reset with a new staff next season.   

Edited April 25, 2022 by ChiSox59

[wegner]

12 minutes ago, Tony said:

Surprised by some of the responses here. No one is wrong, just surprised. 

I'd ask this question to the group after seeing some of the comments: 

 

You're told from 2022-2026, the Sox will win the World Series one time, but not make the playoffs in any other year. Or, the Sox make the playoffs every year from 2022-2026, but you know they don't win the World Series. 

What's your choice? 

I rode that 2005 World Series win high for awhile even with no other playoff appearances, so I'd have to take the Series Win in your scenario.  And if that does not jibe with my poll choice of playoff appearance this season....what can I say, I'm a complicated fan.

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, Tony said:

Surprised by some of the responses here. No one is wrong, just surprised. 

I'd ask this question to the group after seeing some of the comments: 

 

You're told from 2022-2026, the Sox will win the World Series one time, but not make the playoffs in any other year. Or, the Sox make the playoffs every year from 2022-2026, but you know they don't win the World Series. 

What's your choice? 

One title always. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I want to win a WS... Option 2 gives me the best shot.

[The Grinder]

I voted the latter, I'm patient so I can wait another yr for a better manager and hopefully improved team

[T R U]

This team isnt winning shit with LaRussa as manager and our window is going to disappear. Thats option 1.

Option 2 all day, ill take missing the playoffs this year if it means a competent manager is leading this team next season. To be perfectly fair, there is no guarantee that these morons hire a competent manager anyways so maybe ill go for option 3 and death.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd take the multiple playoffs.  But I probably wouldn't watch much baseball if I knew the outcomes.  

I know that wasn't the hypothetical, but you just gotta get in and you never know. 

Honestly, best case scenario is probably Sox win the WS this year in spite of LaRussa and he rides off into the sunset with another ring, and Sox reset with a new staff next season.   

This was my hope when he was hired, but between him being awful and the issues that continue to plague the roster, I have a hard time seeing that scenario happen.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Surprised by some of the responses here. No one is wrong, just surprised. 

I'd ask this question to the group after seeing some of the comments: 

 

You're told from 2022-2026, the Sox will win the World Series one time, but not make the playoffs in any other year. Or, the Sox make the playoffs every year from 2022-2026, but you know they don't win the World Series. 

What's your choice? 

Flags fly forever.  A World Series title >> Winning the AL Central or sneaking into a Wild Card.

[Eminor3rd]

On 4/25/2022 at 1:51 PM, Tony said:

I feel like people aren't understanding the question here. 

Yes, making the playoffs is always better than not making the playoffs. But the question specifically states the Sox lose in the first round (for the 3rd year in a row.) The question is worded specifically so there is no "Well if you make the playoffs, you never know what will happen!" We do know what will happen, and that's them going out in the first round again. 

And as @flavum said, at that point it's the same as not making the postseason at all, so if means TLR gets canned.....the option seems easy.

I feel like when you make a managerial change, you enter this whole period of a new staff coming in, building relationships, evaluating current coaching staff, setting new routines, etc. While the upside of that change, ultimately, may be worth it -- there's always risk that it isn't and there's the uncertainty of how much time it takes to gel, etc. 

At the end of the day, the manager is an easy scapegoat, but unless the clubhouse is in disarray, I just don't think we have much evidence that even dumb stuff like batting Leury third really makes that much of a difference in the W column. I would rather ride with TLR, as long as he can maintain the morale, than roll the dice with another manager and accept the risks of momentum loss and of ending up with someone who is even worse. Because as tactically crazy and personally reprehensible as TLR may be, the managerial situation can certainly be A LOT worse than it is in terms of how the clubhouse is being handled, and in my personal opinion, that's the much larger issue as far as the impact a manager can have.

I would not have made the hire in the first place, but now that we're this far in, I think the best move is to keep pressing forward.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Eminor3rd
than

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said:

I feel like when you make a managerial change, you enter this whole period of a new staff coming in, building relationships, evaluating current coaching staff, setting new routines, etc. While the upside of that change, ultimately, may be worth it -- there's always risk that it isn't and there's the uncertainty of how much time it takes to gel, etc. 

At the end of the day, the manager is an easy scapegoat, but unless the clubhouse is in disarray, I just don't think we have much evidence that even dumb stuff like batting Leury third really makes that much of a difference in the W column. I would rather ride with TLR, as long as he can maintain the morale, then roll the dice with another manager and accept the risks of momentum loss and of ending up with someone who is even worse. Because as tactically crazy and personally reprehensible as TLR may be, the managerial situation can certainly be A LOT worse than it is in terms of how the clubhouse is being handled, and in my personal opinion, that's the much larger issue as far as the impact a manager can have.

I would not have made the hire in the first place, but now that we're this far in, I think the best move is to keep pressing forward.

See 2012 following 2011...and nobody has claimed Ventura to be even an average manager.  For whatever reason, a team of 13 rookie pitchers and Chris Sale suddenly played great defense for most of that year and a rookie closer in Reed almost got to the postseason after a disastrous 2011.

Edited April 25, 2022 by caulfield12

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said:

I feel like when you make a managerial change, you enter this whole period of a new staff coming in, building relationships, evaluating current coaching staff, setting new routines, etc. While the upside of that change, ultimately, may be worth it -- there's always risk that it isn't and there's the uncertainty of how much time it takes to gel, etc. 

At the end of the day, the manager is an easy scapegoat, but unless the clubhouse is in disarray, I just don't think we have much evidence that even dumb stuff like batting Leury third really makes that much of a difference in the W column. I would rather ride with TLR, as long as he can maintain the morale, then roll the dice with another manager and accept the risks of momentum loss and of ending up with someone who is even worse. Because as tactically crazy and personally reprehensible as TLR may be, the managerial situation can certainly be A LOT worse than it is in terms of how the clubhouse is being handled, and in my personal opinion, that's the much larger issue as far as the impact a manager can have.

I would not have made the hire in the first place, but now that we're this far in, I think the best move is to keep pressing forward.

Are we sure the Sox clubhouse is in good standing at the moment? 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Are we sure the Sox clubhouse is in good standing at the moment? 

Foodies say clubhouse in disarray so it must be true!

[hi8is]

I’d rather take a look at things a couple weeks after Lynn has returned.

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Are we sure the Sox clubhouse is in good standing at the moment? 

No, but I'm saying that I'd need to be convinced by an argument that is IS in disarray before I'd personally want the Sox to go through the process of changing management at this point. I bring this up only because my sense is that most of the energy behind this thread is based on TLR's recent unexplainable tactical decisions/comments about tactics in interviews.

[Eminor3rd]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

See 2012 following 2011...and nobody has claimed Ventura to be even an average manager.  For whatever reason, a team of 13 rookie pitchers and Chris Sale suddenly played great defense for most of that year and a rookie closer in Reed almost got to the postseason after a disastrous 2011.

Right, has there been a clearer recent example of a manager that had left the clubhouse in disarray? The Ozzie Guillen situation is precisely the type of situation that I'm arguing would warrant a change. I haven't seen any evidence that the TLR situation is like that.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Right, has there been a clearer recent example of a manager that had left the clubhouse in disarray? The Ozzie Guillen situation is precisely the type of situation that I'm arguing would warrant a change. I haven't seen any evidence that the TLR situation is like that.

I do not know what happened this week, but these last 6 games are exactly what a team looks like on the field when they are distracted by a clubhouse in disarray.

[Sarava]

7 hours ago, flavum said:

For this team, in its post-rebuild window, not making the playoffs and falling short of the ALCS is the same thing to me. I’d take La Russa being replaced next year.

Agree with the bolded.

I'll also add that IMO Hahn and KW need to go with TLR as well. They are the ones that chose to ignore all the gaping holes this past off-season, and are responsible for the bad drafting and bad developing of prospects/draft picks.