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Aaron Judge Critical Of Donaldson's "Jackie" Comment

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, raBBit said:

So players are being alienated by the league because of an article from 2013 says travel baseball is expensive?  Tim Anderson started playing baseball in high school - how was he alienated from the sport again? Hockey, tennis, golf is far more cost prohibitive than baseball. MLB is roughly 8% black. Do you think any of those sports have black people represented at a rate higher than their demographic share of the population?

What about the top AAU teams traveling around the country? Is that free? Hockey is a rich kid sport. Golf is another level. Baseball isn't in the conversation of exclusivity in comparison to other sports in America. 

I know you're in China so your only understanding of this is biased writers talking about stuff they are only pretending to understand but if you think travel baseball teams are trying to exclude good players you're clueless. These coaches are insane. They're all about their own personal egos unfortunately. But on the bright side, if you are a good player without the means, they will find a way to include you. Also, high school baseball is a couple hundred bucks and must schools will exempt a kid's fee if his family can't afford it.

Also, how do these players from LatAm overcome not being able to afford full time travel teams? These kids are often impoverished far greater than your average poor kid in America. How is pay-for-play keeping them from reaching the heights of the sport? It's not. They are more interested in the sport. In their country it is baseball and soccer. All the biggest stars in their home country come from baseball and soccer. If you're a black kid in America, how many NBA/NFL stars do you have to list before you list the biggest MLB star. There are probably two dozen black basketball players that are bigger stars than any black MLB player. In the NFL, it is the same thing. 

Baseball's popularity has waned in America for decades. The trends towards the percentage of black people in the MLB directly reflects that. The trends of Latin American players in the league also supports that. Baseball is not the most exciting game and a lot of the most exciting athletes are going to find themselves in basketball or football because of that.  

You realize part of the reason baseball doesn't appeal to young black kids is because of marketing and how the game has gate keepers like this moron:

 

Meanwhile, basketball and football market and appeal to young black kids and also go well above and beyond regarding access and cost. Also, we need not look any further than Jackie Robinson West to know that the treatment of black kids in little league/travel baseball is no where near equal to that of the treatment of all white kids/teams. Unless you think it's just a massive coincidence that the one out of district recruiting forfeiture happened to take place in a poor black led community team. Baseball is an expensive game (equipment and etc) and access to fields and places to play are not prevalent in lower income communities/inner cities. Participation has waned because of the lack of access and the total disregard of the black community. Baseball knows it. The White Sox know it. You... I guess don't.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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Just now, southsider2k5 said:

 

There's a huge pile of evidence that Donaldson is the closest thing to a "clubhouse cancer" that you'll find in MLB these days. Nobody seems to like the guy, not even his own team mates. And when you get guys talking to this degree about stuff that is usually kept outside the media and fans' purview it's usually for an extraordinary reason -- Donaldson just is that big of an asshat.

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Posted (edited)

Still curious to see the breakdown of costs for $2K for travel baseball for a kids’ team.

I have a hockey background, and the fees for a local travel team were about $2500… for a U16 team. That included ice costs ($250 / hour X 3 hours / week) and uniforms.

Edited by JoeC
Subject-verb agreement
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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You realize part of the reason baseball doesn't appeal to young black kids is because of marketing and how the game has gate keepers like this moron:

Meanwhile, basketball and football market and appeal to young black kids and also go well above and beyond regarding access and cost. Also, we need not look any further than Jackie Robinson West to know that the treatment of black kids in little league/travel baseball is no where near equal to that of the treatment of all white kids/teams. Unless you think it's just a massive coincidence that the one out of district recruiting forfeiture happened to take place in a poor black led community team.

Do you know any black people? Because if you did, you would realize that there is not one black kid in America who gives a fuck what Jon Heyman has to say. 

Not that your LLWS tangent is relevant, it is wrong. The Jackie Robinson West stuff was in no ways unfair treatment. Not sure why they should be exempt from the rules all other teams have to abide by. My travel team played JRW all the time growing up and everyone I played with was really confused on how they put their team together given where all the kids were from before the scandal was revealed. Everybody locally knew that their team was breaking the rules. It was the worst kept secret. And there have been teams from Georgia and Taiwan that have been eliminated/stripped/suspended because of using players from outside of their districts. You're putting the cart in front of the horse with your narrative.  

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Do you know any black people? Because if you did, you would realize that there is not one black kid in America who gives a fuck what Jon Heyman has to say. 

Not that your LLWS tangent is relevant, it is wrong. The Jackie Robinson West stuff was in no ways unfair treatment. Not sure why they should be exempt from the rules all other teams have to abide by. My travel team played JRW all the time growing up and everyone I played with was really confused on how they put their team together given where all the kids were from before the scandal was revealed. Everybody locally knew that their team was breaking the rules. It was the worst kept secret. And there have been teams from Georgia and Taiwan that have been eliminated/stripped/suspended because of using players from outside of their districts. You're putting the cart in front of the horse with your narrative.  

So you must know them all.

This incident is not a good look for a sport struggling to find black players.

Edited by Dick Allen
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Do you know any black people? Because if you did, you would realize that there is not one black kid in America who gives a fuck what Jon Heyman has to say. 

Not that your LLWS tangent is relevant, it is wrong. The Jackie Robinson West stuff was in no ways unfair treatment. Not sure why they should be exempt from the rules all other teams have to abide by. My travel team played JRW all the time growing up and everyone I played with was really confused on how they put their team together given where all the kids were from before the scandal was revealed. Everybody locally knew that their team was breaking the rules. It was the worst kept secret. And there have been teams from Georgia and Taiwan that have been eliminated/stripped/suspended because of using players from outside of their districts. You're putting the cart in front of the horse with your narrative.  

I'm not surprised you missed the point; the reporting/coverage of the game is a part of baseball's problem. People like Jon Heyman are a part of the problem. Also not shocked to see you being a person who views black people as a singular being who all share the same likes, interests and following.

I guess JRW should have redistricted their kids like plenty of teams I grew up playing with and against did, huh? It's not wrong, anyone who actually played high level baseball or on very good little league teams knows that what JRW did was certainly not out of the ordinary in that world. They just happened to be the one team held accountable. 

Anyone who asks "do you know any black people" as a rebuttal to a conversation likely isn't someone worthy of continuing the discussion further with. Based on your past posts here on topics such as this, I'd be lying if I said I was surprised though.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm not surprised you missed the point; the reporting/coverage of the game is a part of baseball's problem. People like Jon Heyman are a part of the problem. Also not shocked to see you being a person who views black people as a singular being who all share the same likes, interests and following.

I guess JRW should have redistricted their kids like plenty of teams I grew up playing with and against did, huh? It's not wrong, anyone who actually played high level baseball or on very good little league teams knows that what JRW did was certainly not out of the ordinary in that world. They just happened to be the one team held accountable. 

Anyone who asks "do you know any black people" as a rebuttal to a conversation likely isn't someone worthy of continuing the discussion further with. Based on your past posts here on topics such as this, I'd be lying if I said I was surprised though.

Well said 

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It makes me think a bit of the movie 42, and that Ben Chapman scene.  It's somewhat ironic how Chapman tried to defend himself - I was just trying to rattle him, same as I have done to DiMaggio - or something to that effect, and how Donaldson trying to defend himself sounds similar - I was just kidding, like I've done before, trying to get under his skin.  Maybe I'm totally off.

Also, as I saw some folks on MLB Network mention, the fact that Donaldson is still thinking about something TA said in a 2019 article in May 2022 is very telling.  Why is it still in the forefront of his mind such that he would think to say something about it to take a dig at TA?  Obsess much?  I think it's pretty clear that Donaldson has a problem with TA (and frankly the White Sox in general based on his behavior and statements against the Sox), and he said something to antagonize TA that was specifically tied to TA and his race, and he did it with mal intent.  The guy is a douche.    

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3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So you must know them all.

This incident is not a good look for a sport struggling to find black players.

Because that’s what I said? I didn’t say the incident was a good look. Heyman’s a dumbass. I’m not sure why he has any relevance in this. He’s like the lone media with this take. To act as if Heyman has any influence on anything is foolhardy. 

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15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You realize part of the reason baseball doesn't appeal to young black kids is because of marketing and how the game has gate keepers like this moron:

 

Meanwhile, basketball and football market and appeal to young black kids and also go well above and beyond regarding access and cost. Also, we need not look any further than Jackie Robinson West to know that the treatment of black kids in little league/travel baseball is no where near equal to that of the treatment of all white kids/teams. Unless you think it's just a massive coincidence that the one out of district recruiting forfeiture happened to take place in a poor black led community team. Baseball is an expensive game (equipment and etc) and access to fields and places to play are not prevalent in lower income communities/inner cities. Participation has waned because of the lack of access and the total disregard of the black community. Baseball knows it. The White Sox know it. You... I guess don't.

Come on.....Mlb almost destroyed itself with a lockout, can't decide on a juiced ball or a dead one, and alienated it's fan base with the appletv deal but somehow it's competent enough to racially engineer it's work force? Mlb teams have been sending coaching camps for kids into inner city neighborhoods for years. There are a lot of reasons younger African American kids aren't playing baseball at the same rate they once did but mlb marketing is not one of them. Major League Baseball is equally incompetent to all of its fans.

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Let's be honest here, there is nothing charged about the name "Babe Ruth".  It is a meaningless comparison, and one that is meant to flatter.  If you want a real equal in terms of upending the apple cart, how about if he called him David Duke, or if he really swung for the fences and started calling him Jesus Christ.  Now we are incorporating the whole "sacrifice" and "hated in his time" and "persecuted for his beliefs" while making a comparison.  Donaldson's work wasn't meant to flatter, it was meant to piss TA off, hence it being racially controversial.

There isn't a real comparison because no white baseball player has ever been denied the ability to play baseball based on their skin color. 

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1 minute ago, chw42 said:

There isn't a real comparison because no white baseball player has ever been denied the ability to play baseball based on their skin color. 

This is also 100% fair, which is why I looked a little further away.

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I'll probably get eviscerated here... 

So, Tim is my favorite player on the current roster. And, Donaldson is a notorious a**hole. BUT, I don't think this was a race thing at all... I think Tim compared himself to an all-time great and a trailblazer and Donaldson tried to get under his skin (like he does). I'm not defending it, and I think that he should've gotten more than a 1-game suspension... but, to bash the guy as a racist is kind of crazy.

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Just now, dohnut said:

I'll probably get eviscerated here... 

So, Tim is my favorite player on the current roster. And, Donaldson is a notorious a**hole. BUT, I don't think this was a race thing at all... I think Tim compared himself to an all-time great and a trailblazer and Donaldson tried to get under his skin (like he does). I'm not defending it, and I think that he should've gotten more than a 1-game suspension... but, to bash the guy as a racist is kind of crazy.

Only Josh knows if it was intended to be a race thing. However, his answer that it was a joke given his history of trying to get under players' skin is complete bullshit and he needs to be made an example of to help educate others about the sensitivity of black players given the history of the country and the game.

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27 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

There's a huge pile of evidence that Donaldson is the closest thing to a "clubhouse cancer" that you'll find in MLB these days. Nobody seems to like the guy, not even his own team mates. And when you get guys talking to this degree about stuff that is usually kept outside the media and fans' purview it's usually for an extraordinary reason -- Donaldson just is that big of an asshat.

Keuchel did tell Garfien that Donaldson didn't get along with the Latinos in the Twins' clubhouse. 

Remember when Donaldson tried to get the Twins fired up last year by trying to shit talk Giolito about sticky stuff and it backfired? Remember when he called a team meeting to try to right the ship? None of that worked. The guy really thought he was part of the solution when he was part of the problem. 

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2 minutes ago, dohnut said:

I'll probably get eviscerated here... 

So, Tim is my favorite player on the current roster. And, Donaldson is a notorious a**hole. BUT, I don't think this was a race thing at all... I think Tim compared himself to an all-time great and a trailblazer and Donaldson tried to get under his skin (like he does). I'm not defending it, and I think that he should've gotten more than a 1-game suspension... but, to bash the guy as a racist is kind of crazy.

This is pretty close to what I think reasonable people are thinking. Nobody believes Josh Donaldson is a hardcore racist attending Klan meetings in between games -- but -- there was racial intent in his demeaning of TA and for that he should be punished. Was Josh even aware enough to realize it? Probably not, but ignorance isn't an excuse.

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Just now, southsider2k5 said:

It didn't have to have racist intent for it to be racist.

Correct.  And it was neither.

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5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

So far the only two Yankees to speak out buried their teammate.  You don't see that very often at all.

Remember when Josh Hader got caught using the N word and Lorenzo Cain went out and told everyone he’s not that guy?

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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Some jokes just write themselves

 

He already gave it away when he said "ChiSox". 

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7 minutes ago, mqr said:

Remember when Josh Hader got caught using the N word and Lorenzo Cain went out and told everyone he’s not that guy?

Remember when the Milwaukee crowd gave him a standing ovation? 

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1 minute ago, Green Line said:

Correct.  And it was neither.

It definitely was.

Josh Donaldson was using the name "Jackie" to get under the skin of one of MLB's most prominent African American stars - which isn't a big list to begin with.

And because people keep bringing up the 2019 article, I'm gonna bring it here so people can read the passage:

Quote

The color barrier fell 72 years ago. Anderson honored the occasion by wearing number 42 on the anniversary of the debut of the man who broke it, as do all major league players and staff, and by hosting a private screening of 42, the 2013 biopic, for kids from the White Sox’ Amateur City Elite program, which introduces inner-city Chicago youngsters to baseball. But he sees another barrier, one he’s intent on toppling: the “have-fun barrier.”

“I kind of feel like today’s Jackie Robinson,” he says. “That’s huge to say. But it’s cool, man, because he changed the game, and I feel like I’m getting to a point to where I need to change the game.”

Anderson’s point is more nuanced than it might sound. Robinson remains an American hero, and Anderson will never face the Jim Crow horrors Robinson and the first generation of black major leaguers endured. Also, plenty of players, white and nonwhite alike, have had fun while playing the game.

But, as a rule, baseball does not encourage individualism. As other sports have evolved to showcase their stars’ personalities, the baseball old guard has held tight to its principles. Run out ground balls. Keep your mouth shut. Gently place your bat near home plate—a player should react to a home run just as he would react to the news that an acquaintance filed his taxes on time.

These attitudes often map along racial lines, though not always. Pirates righty Chris Archer, who is black, recently threw behind Reds first baseman Derek Dietrich, who is white, after Dietrich admired a home run. And perhaps no modern player is better known for his on-field emotions (and bat flips) than Phillies outfielder Bryce Harper, who is white.

Anderson’s complaint is not simply that Keller sought revenge for the bat flip. It’s that Keller received a five-game ban—which, for a starting pitcher, amounts to one missed game of action—for hurling a projectile at his body, and that Anderson received the same punishment for reacting, in the heat of competition, with a word that he believes he should be allowed to say.

He did not appeal the suspension, he says, because there would have been no point. “I don’t think there’s a black guy that’s up that high in baseball that they could drag in and be like, ‘Hey, what do you think we should do to this guy?’ ” he says. While the game has grown more diverse overall—41% of players today are of color, according to MLB statistics—Latin Americans have made up most of that growth. They too face a sense of isolation and discomfort, and they have been among the wave of players introducing emotion into the game, but the experience of a Latino is not identical to that of an African-American. At the moment, if Anderson wants to see someone who looks like him in his clubhouse, he has to look in the mirror.

So TA was talking about changing the game to make it more fun, but also more appealing to Black kids in America. And he's saying this after taking kids from the ACE program to see 42. TA knows better than most of us the weight his words carry and he damn well knows better than Josh Donaldson.

Donaldson may be too stupid to know what he said was racist, but at the core of it, the only reason TA's original comments happened are because he's a Black star in today's game. Corey Seager isn't going to compare himself to Jackie, because he doesn't need to carry that legacy like TA does. If Donaldson called Seager "Jackie," that's just fucking stupid. Calling TA, who does have to carry that legacy and is trying to make the game more appealing to Black kids we know this because of his words and actions - as a taunt, is racist because he's trying to belittle everything TA has gone through to get here and is trying to do.

Plus, it's been 3 years since the damn article, so Donaldson's just being a dick.

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1 minute ago, Quin said:

It definitely was.

Josh Donaldson was using the name "Jackie" to get under the skin of one of MLB's most prominent African American stars - which isn't a big list to begin with.

And because people keep bringing up the 2019 article, I'm gonna bring it here so people can read the passage:

So TA was talking about changing the game to make it more fun, but also more appealing to Black kids in America. And he's saying this after taking kids from the ACE program to see 42. TA knows better than most of us the weight his words carry and he damn well knows better than Josh Donaldson.

Donaldson may be too stupid to know what he said was racist, but at the core of it, the only reason TA's original comments happened are because he's a Black star in today's game. Corey Seager isn't going to compare himself to Jackie, because he doesn't need to carry that legacy like TA does. If Donaldson called Seager "Jackie," that's just fucking stupid. Calling TA, who does have to carry that legacy and is trying to make the game more appealing to Black kids we know this because of his words and actions - as a taunt, is racist because he's trying to belittle everything TA has gone through to get here and is trying to do.

Plus, it's been 3 years since the damn article, so Donaldson's just being a dick.

Well done.

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19 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Correct.  And it was neither.

What gives you the right? How can you ignore how this was received by TA and the majority of black folks, even those wearing the same pinstripes as Donaldson? You are aggressively ignorant if you can't just shut up and listen to what people different than you have to say about the subject.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Quin said:

It definitely was.

Josh Donaldson was using the name "Jackie" to get under the skin of one of MLB's most prominent African American stars - which isn't a big list to begin with.

 And because people keep bringing up the 2019 article, I'm gonna bring it here so people can read the passage:

So TA was talking about changing the game to make it more fun, but also more appealing to Black kids in America. And he's saying this after taking kids from the ACE program to see 42. TA knows better than most of us the weight his words carry and he damn well knows better than Josh Donaldson.

Donaldson may be too stupid to know what he said was racist, but at the core of it, the only reason TA's original comments happened are because he's a Black star in today's game. Corey Seager isn't going to compare himself to Jackie, because he doesn't need to carry that legacy like TA does. If Donaldson called Seager "Jackie," that's just fucking stupid. Calling TA, who does have to carry that legacy and is trying to make the game more appealing to Black kids we know this because of his words and actions - as a taunt, is racist because he's trying to belittle everything TA has gone through to get here and is trying to do.

 Plus, it's been 3 years since the damn article, so Donaldson's just being a dick.

Bravo.

It's one thing for people to not understand the context of this and need it explained to them.  It's a wholly different thing to have it thoughtfully explained to you numerous times and continually choosing to ignore it.

Edited by Spumoni
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