Old Sock Drawer, ex Sox player discussion

[elrockinMT 501]

Carlos Rodon,s line from first start for the Giants 

5  innings with 12 Ks and 2 hits allowed and 2 walks against the Marlins 

I say again 12 of the 15 outs he recorded weren by the strike out. 

Health will always be a concern but I just hope we don’t end up regretting not signing him. He is the one free agent I hoped the Sox would go after 

[Tony 5,279]

Just now, elrockinMT said:

Carlos Rodon,s line from first start for the Giants 

5  innings with 12 Ks and 2 hits allowed and 2 walks against the Marlins 

I say again 12 of the 15 outs he recorded weren by the strike out. 

Health will always be a concern but I just hope we don’t end up regretting not signing him 

Vince Velazquez is starting the home opener. They should already regret not signing him. 

[maxjusttyped 2,575]

I said this in the MLB catch all thread, but Rodon had the 2nd most swinging strikes in a start of his career today. He looked like one of the best pitchers on the planet today. Very few people on earth are capable of pitching as well as he did on a per inning basis last season. The stuff is still there. He'll be an ace when he's on the mound.

[wegner 4,498]

If Hard Carl can stay healthy....worth every penny.  I really just don't think the Sox thought he could put together a full season, playoffs included.

[maxjusttyped 2,575]

Just now, wegner said:

If Hard Carl can stay healthy....worth every penny.  I really just don't think the Sox thought he could put together a full season, playoffs included.

How many pitchers get through a full season healthy? Lucas and Lynn are modern day work horses and they couldn't make it 2 days into the regular season.

[black jack 265]

Qualifying him was a no brainer as was adding a team option when they signed him last year. 

3/4 of this board were upset that they signed him on the cheap last year and I was screaming for a multi year deal.  

 

Edited April 10 by black jack

[wegner 4,498]

2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

How many pitchers get through a full season healthy? Lucas and Lynn are modern day work horses and they couldn't make it 2 days into the regular season.

I don't disagree with you but how can you explain not even a QO unless the Sox just didn't believe he'd be available when they needed him come playoff time?

[maxjusttyped 2,575]

4 minutes ago, wegner said:

I don't disagree with you but how can you explain not even a QO unless the Sox just didn't believe he'd be available when they needed him come playoff time?

I'm sure that was the justification. But the only way not offering a pitcher with CY upside the qualifying offer/2 year deal is if you don't think he can pass a physical and his shoulder or elbow is about to blow out. Sure the injury risk with him is probably higher than it is with a typical pitcher, but that's an argument against signing him to a long-term deal not for something that's 1 or 2 years.

[wegner 4,498]

1 minute ago, maxjusttyped said:

I'm sure that was the justification. But the only way not offering a pitcher with CY upside the qualifying offer/2 year deal is if you don't think he can pass a physical and his shoulder or elbow is about to blow out. Sure the injury risk with him is probably higher than it is with a typical pitcher, but that's an argument against signing him to a long-term deal not for something that's 1 or 2 years.

Sounds like we wholeheartedly agree that it was a bad idea to not try to bring him back.  Looks even worse with Lynn and now Lucas out.

[jasonxctf 33]

Nothing but best wishes for Carlos but not sure $22 million a year for each of the next 2 years would have been a wise investment for the Sox. Hope Carlos stays healthy but he hasn’t been able to put together a full, healthy year of quality starts since 2016. 

so yeah it would have been nice to have him on the team and I’m sure if they could have gotten him for $10-12 mil or a 1 year deal they would have, but where the market set his price, this team couldn’t go to. 

[Texsox 1,717]

I think everyone thought he was a top pitcher when healthy. He faded badly last season which is concerning. Not knowing everything on his medical a QO seemed like an easy yes decision. 

[maxjusttyped 2,575]

15 minutes ago, jasonxctf said:

Nothing but best wishes for Carlos but not sure $22 million a year for each of the next 2 years would have been a wise investment for the Sox. Hope Carlos stays healthy but he hasn’t been able to put together a full, healthy year of quality starts since 2016. 

so yeah it would have been nice to have him on the team and I’m sure if they could have gotten him for $10-12 mil or a 1 year deal they would have, but where the market set his price, this team couldn’t go to. 

I would have been with you had he signed a long-term deal. Obviously that was not the case.

The Sox absolutely could have managed Rodon throughout this season if he ended up somewhere in the ~100-150 inning range again. He was healthy enough to pass a physical for the Giants, hit 99 during spring and pitch like an ace today.  I think there's way less certainty projecting players health than we like to believe. You're injury prone until you're not, you're healthy until you're not. Lucas and Lynn have both been durable guys and they couldn't make it past Opening Day. Carlos was supposedly about to break before he could even sign a physical and he looks like one of the best pitchers in the game right now. There was no other path to the Sox getting a pitcher with this type of upside if they weren't going to sign Scherzer or Verlander, which we all know was never in the cards.

[SoxFan562004 47]

They lost the game. Yes, I'm trolling. 

Edited April 10 by SoxFan562004
Troll

[jasonxctf 33]

6 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I would have been with you had he signed a long-term deal. Obviously that was not the case.

The Sox absolutely could have managed Rodon throughout this season if he ended up somewhere in the ~100-150 inning range again. He was healthy enough to pass a physical for the Giants, hit 99 during spring and pitch like an ace today.  I think there's way less certainty projecting players health than we like to believe. You're injury prone until you're not, you're healthy until you're not. Lucas and Lynn have both been durable guys and they couldn't make it past Opening Day. Carlos was supposedly about to break before he could even sign a physical and he looks like one of the best pitchers in the game right now. There was no other path to the Sox getting a pitcher with this type of upside if they weren't going to sign Scherzer or Verlander, which we all know was never in the cards.

 Pre injuries, what’s Kopech’s role if they sign Rodon? Another year in the bullpen?

[maxjusttyped 2,575]

1 minute ago, jasonxctf said:

 Pre injuries, what’s Kopech’s role if they sign Rodon? Another year in the bullpen?

That's just not how it works. The average team uses like 10 SP's in a season. If the Sox "had" to open with a 6 man or Keuchel in the bullpen, that would have been fine. No such thing as too many good SPs.

[jasonxctf 33]

3 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

That's just not how it works. The average team uses like 10 SP's in a season. If the Sox "had" to open with a 6 man or Keuchel in the bullpen, that would have been fine. No such thing as too many good SPs.

If Jerry would spend unlimited cash then sure. But that’s not how he is. There’s no way they have a starting rotation of…

Rodon- $22 million

Keuchel- $18 million

Giolito- $7.5 million

Cease- $750k

Lynn- $14 million

~$62 million for their starting 5?!?!

[maxjusttyped 2,575]

2 minutes ago, jasonxctf said:

If Jerry would spend unlimited cash then sure. But that’s not how he is. There’s no way they have a starting rotation of…

Rodon- $22 million

Keuchel- $18 million

Giolito- $7.5 million

Cease- $750k

Lynn- $14 million

~$62 million for their starting 5?!?!

Go cheaper for an extra reliever instead of signing Kelly and that team would still be below the luxury tax. They were interested in Manaea and he's making 9.75M. I think the issue is more about payroll allocation than how much Jerry is allowing Hahn to spend, honestly.

[Green Line 677]

we couldnt afford Rodon.  Its moot!

[chitownsportsfan 4,900]

you don't want to piss on a live post -- carlos rodon, probably.

[jasonxctf 33]

6 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Go cheaper for an extra reliever instead of signing Kelly and that team would still be below the luxury tax. They were interested in Manaea and he's making 9.75M. I think the issue is more about payroll allocation than how much Jerry is allowing Hahn to spend, honestly.

Agreed on allocation. Saddled with the Keuchel salary does handcuff them dramatically.

but if you could either

a) have Rodon at $22 million with (2) AAA level guys in the pen and Leury as your starting 2b 

or

b) have Velazquez/Lopez/Cueto as the SP but Kelly, Graverman in the pen and Harrison as starting 2B

which would you pick? They cost about the same.

[Jack Parkman 4,348]

If they weren't idiots and didn't overspend on an aging Keuchel they could have re-signed Rodon. 

It's the dumb Keuchel contract's fault. It was a fool's errand to think that he wouldn't lose it fairly quickly. 

Rodon's money is going to Keuchel.

Rodon Salary: $22M

Keuchel Salary: $18M 

One guy is a gascan and the other is an ace when healthy. 

They should have just said "fuck it" after missing on Wheeler and saved the $ for the 2021 offseason. 

 

Edited April 10 by Jack Parkman

[Texsox 1,717]

Two months ago the team was making ridiculous amounts of money that should go to the players. Players were receiving less and less of the revenues. How the team can't afford a player? What did I miss? 

[maxjusttyped 2,575]

2 minutes ago, jasonxctf said:

Agreed on allocation. Saddled with the Keuchel salary does handcuff them dramatically.

but if you could either

a) have Rodon at $22 million with (2) AAA level guys in the pen and Leury as your starting 2b 

or

b) have Velazquez/Lopez/Cueto as the SP but Kelly, Graverman in the pen and Harrison as starting 2B

which would you pick? They cost about the same.

I don't think that's a fair representation of things. We know from very credible reporting the Sox were interested in trading for Manaea. That's an additional 9.75M. I find it hard to believe Jerry would have signed off on a deal for him and then not allowed any additional spending at the deadline, but it's possible. I think the most likely scenario is that the luxury tax, which they are 19M below, is the ceiling for payroll. But *at the very least* it shows the Sox aren't maxed out from a payroll perspective right now.

They could have signed Harrison, Graveman, Rodon for the exact deal he signed with SF (which likely would have been a bit cheaper considering the QO does negatively affect players market value), and a cheaper relief option like Bryan Shaw, Chris Martin, McCugh etc and come in below the luxury tax. I don't think you're guaranteed to get better performance from Kelly than relievers who signed in the ~2.5-5M AAV range and with Rodon back there wouldn't be a need to sign Velasquez which cuts another 3M off the payroll/luxury tax number. That to me would have been preferable to the outcome we're in now, even if the Sox would have landed Manaea in a trade.

[tray 1,235]

Hahn doubling down on  Kimbrel for 16 Mil  is even more maddening when considering what Rodon could have meant to our rotation.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside 3,653]

1 hour ago, wegner said:

I don't disagree with you but how can you explain not even a QO unless the Sox just didn't believe he'd be available when they needed him come playoff time?

It was their own fault he wasn't available come playoff time last year. The facts speak for themselves. They abused him after he had barely pitched the previous 2 seasons. They could've babied him along 5 innings max or a max pitch count and no deviating from it. I mean he'll always have the no hitter but maybe he would've liked a ring more.

There's no guarantee anyone is available come playoff time but you have to get their 1st. Let's see if Kopech can make it to the playoffs.