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6/28 GT: Sox @ LAAAAAA - WHY IS TLR STILL HERE?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, RibbieRubarb said:

Fixed

That uncompromisin', enterprisin', anything but tranquilizin',
Right on Vaughn!

 

Edited by wegner

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35 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

A DH should be able to hit.

I feel like this isn't true for this org, going all the way back to Omar Vizquel's start at DH in 2010

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2 minutes ago, wegner said:

That uncompromisin', enterprisin', anything but tranquilizin',
Right on Vaughn!

Now that the 70s have made an appearance ....

Damn, Damn, Damn - The Story of the 2022 Chicago White Sox

 

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

To follow up on this, if you expand fangraphs out to 180 PAs to include Jake Burger's season here are their defensive ratings out of 76 peers

Yoan Moncada 17th 3.9 Dwar, 3.6 UZR/150, 1 OAA, 0 RAA

Jake Burger 57th -4.2 Dwar, -13.4 UZR/150, -6 OAA, -4 RAA

Valid point indeed.

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Have some stones and DFA Leury Garcia.  Sosa has made some loud outs with nothing to show for and has flashed a decent glove/footwork at 2B.  He has nowhere to go but up.

 

Leury Garcia is a wasted paycheck at this point.  

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90 games left. 16 with the Twins.

54-36 (.600), including going 9-7 vs the Twins to be 88-74 and hope that’s enough.

That’s the math we’re looking at now. 

I think we’re done. Sell anyone you can (within reason).

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2 minutes ago, flavum said:

90 games left. 16 with the Twins.

54-36 (.600), including going 9-7 vs the Twins to be 88-74 and hope that’s enough.

That’s the math we’re looking at now. 

I think we’re done. Sell anyone you can (within reason).

Gonna have to do better than 9-7 against the Twins.  

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1 minute ago, flavum said:

90 games left. 16 with the Twins.

54-36 (.600), including going 9-7 vs the Twins to be 88-74 and hope that’s enough.

That’s the math we’re looking at now. 

I think we’re done. Sell anyone you can (within reason).

They couldn't flip a switch after the ASB last year after actually playing well the first half.  I've seen nothing to suggest they have any extended stretch of good play in them this season, let alone playing at a .600 clip for the next 90.  The hole isn't insurmountable, but they themselves continue proving that they aren't capable as constructed.  Sadly I too think they are done.

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1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Gonna have to do better than 9-7 against the Twins.  

8 games with the Twins before the All Star Break.  I think the Sox have to win 6 of those.

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6 minutes ago, flavum said:

90 games left. 16 with the Twins.

54-36 (.600), including going 9-7 vs the Twins to be 88-74 and hope that’s enough.

That’s the math we’re looking at now. 

I think we’re done. Sell anyone you can (within reason).

 

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2 hours ago, reiks12 said:

Eloy with 2 soft groundball outs so far. Cant wait for him to come up and shit the bed 

Yep, in 12 games at Charlotte he has 8 hits in 42 AB's with ZERO HR's and doubles, with a slash line of: .190/.227/.190/.417!

He can't stay healthy and now he can't even hit at Triple A!

 

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2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Yep, in 12 games at Charlotte he has 8 hits in 42 AB's with ZERO HR's and doubles, with a slash line of: .190/.227/.190/.417!

He can't stay healthy and now he can't even hit at Triple A!

 

Woe is this team.

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34 minutes ago, flavum said:

90 games left. 16 with the Twins.

54-36 (.600), including going 9-7 vs the Twins to be 88-74 and hope that’s enough.

That’s the math we’re looking at now. 

I think we’re done. Sell anyone you can (within reason).

man this really drove it home how uphill this climb is. Basically need a run like the cardinals put together. Hard to care as much about getting healthy when most of those guys have been miserable at the plate for months.

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Posted (edited)

In the last 15 days who has more HR's ?

A. Mendick, Zavala, Sheets, Harrison, Pollock. 151 AB for this group in 15 days.  Season Total This Group has 14 HR's.

B. Abreu, Burger, Moncada, Robert, Vaughn, Anderson. 227 AB for this group in 15 days . Season Total this group has 39 HR

 

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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54 minutes ago, flavum said:

90 games left. 16 with the Twins.

54-36 (.600), including going 9-7 vs the Twins to be 88-74 and hope that’s enough.

That’s the math we’re looking at now. 

I think we’re done. Sell anyone you can (within reason).

Right now the Twins are playing .560 ball. That translates to a 90.7 win pace. I’m not sure 9-7 is enough to knock them off that pace.

All 4 AL East teams are also currently on pace for 90+ wins. Someone has to fall off for a wild card to be available at 88 wins.

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1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

They couldn't flip a switch after the ASB last year after actually playing well the first half.  I've seen nothing to suggest they have any extended stretch of good play in them this season, let alone playing at a .600 clip for the next 90.  The hole isn't insurmountable, but they themselves continue proving that they aren't capable as constructed.  Sadly I too think they are done.

Well said, as much as I keep hoping they turn things around, I too believe they are done.

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La Russa has just ruined this team.  Just an utter absolute 🤡

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

The point is that we have horrible defenders all over the field, and they are costing us runs.  We have somewhere around 3 guys who are truly good defenders at their positions.  Every time we stick Jake out there, maybe he hits, but he gives it all back on the field.  We can't afford to have a whole line up of this, and we quite literally lost the game last night for this exact reason. 

Also if we don't get Yoan Moncada back on track, we aren't winning anything anyway.

But for the record, on their careers, their numbers are remarkably similar, even with Moncada's huge injury related problems this year.

So the plan is to win games by scores of 1-0,2-1, 3-2, 4-3, 5-4 because of all the great defense you're going to get taking Burger, Sheets and who else out of the lineup ? Vaughn too ? Worst defensive WAR on the Sox by far.

I'm sure you realize you are damned if you do and damned if you don't at this point. Harrison is the 3rd best Sox hitter in June by OPS. Robert leads the team in RBI by far with 14 in June but doing it with a .700 OPS. You put Vaughn and Abreu behind Anderson and you're begging for  DP by one of them.

Arguing for a better defensive team is pretty much the same as arguing for a better offensive team. Either the offense or the defense messes up good pitching performances.

Or maybe because runs are scarce the 3rd bas coach keeps getting runners gunned down at the plate. Or just one bad relief appearance means a loss. The margin for error is slim regardless.

I do agree Yoan has to play but if he's playing every other day what good is that ? Do you think Vaughn reaches the ball that barely eluded the 6'5" Sheets in the OF yesterday ?

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14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So the plan is to win games by scores of 1-0,2-1, 3-2, 4-3, 5-4 because of all the great defense you're going to get taking Burger, Sheets and who else out of the lineup ? Vaughn too ? Worst defensive WAR on the Sox by far.

I'm sure you realize you are damned if you do and damned if you don't at this point. Harrison is the 3rd best Sox hitter in June by OPS. Robert leads the team in RBI by far with 14 in June but doing it with a .700 OPS. You put Vaughn and Abreu behind Anderson and you're begging for  DP by one of them.

Arguing for a better defensive team is pretty much the same as arguing for a better offensive team. Either the offense or the defense messes up good pitching performances.

Or maybe because runs are scarce the 3rd bas coach keeps getting runners gunned down at the plate. Or just one bad relief appearance means a loss. The margin for error is slim regardless.

I do agree Yoan has to play but if he's playing every other day what good is that ? Do you think Vaughn reaches the ball that barely eluded the 6'5" Sheets in the OF yesterday ?

Here's the difference, no one else suffers from bad offense.  If Yoan Moncada strikes out on three pitches, that doesn't hurt anyone else.  If Jake Burger boots a ball at 3rd, the pitcher now has to pitch over it.  It adds to their pitch count and gets them out of the game earlier.  It forces another bad reliever into the game, or forces a good reliever into throwing even more pitches.  It can cost us needed relievers for the next days as we cover the extra pitches and innings.

We have already seen the results of horrible team defense with relievers being hurt, sore, and unavailable for days at a time.

I would argue guys being sent in risky situations by the 3rd base coach is the downside result of a bad offense.  Because we can't score runs in bunches this year, the coaches,  are pressing guys into tough sends.  Again no one else suffers because of this.  You make extra outs, that is it.

As for the Vaughn mention, I will simply note that Adam Engel was playing RF a lot more often before he got hurt, and I am sure his defense was fully the reason why.

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Posted (edited)

Montas, Q, Rodon and Pilkington all starting tonight.

One thing we do pretty well besides stealing bases is ending up losing players with little to nothing to show for it.

Q obviously being one of the rare exceptions.


But now we’re running the very same risk with Giolito…the Twins dealt Nelson Cruz for their current young ace in Joe Ryan (Abreu deal would be the equivalent) and sold high on Berrios while managing to avoid a bad contract extension and investing that money into Buxton/Correa.  They got Sanchez/Urshela back for another contract they wanted to offload in Donaldson.

As it stands today, German Marquez and Berrios are the only qualified MLB starters with over 5.00 ERA’s.  Berrios is at 5.86, in fact.  Giolito is just a couple innings from qualifying to be third worst, although he got screwed by his defense last night.

 

But the odds of Rick Hahn pulling off a similar set of moves as the Twins…about the same as Jackson State making it into the BCS or whatever they’re calling it these days.

Edited by caulfield12

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29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Here's the difference, no one else suffers from bad offense.  If Yoan Moncada strikes out on three pitches, that doesn't hurt anyone else.  If Jake Burger boots a ball at 3rd, the pitcher now has to pitch over it.  It adds to their pitch count and gets them out of the game earlier.  It forces another bad reliever into the game, or forces a good reliever into throwing even more pitches.  It can cost us needed relievers for the next days as we cover the extra pitches and innings.

We have already seen the results of horrible team defense with relievers being hurt, sore, and unavailable for days at a time.

I would argue guys being sent in risky situations by the 3rd base coach is the downside result of a bad offense.  Because we can't score runs in bunches this year, the coaches,  are pressing guys into tough sends.  Again no one else suffers because of this.  You make extra outs, that is it.

As for the Vaughn mention, I will simply note that Adam Engel was playing RF a lot more often before he got hurt, and I am sure his defense was fully the reason why.

Offense vs Defense is an age old argument.  I have long thought that if Ozzie had played Anderson in CF most every day over Mackowiak, they would have made the playoffs in 2006.

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10 minutes ago, wegner said:

Offense vs Defense is an age old argument.  I have long thought that if Ozzie had played Anderson in CF most every day over Mackowiak, they would have made the playoffs in 2006.

100%

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