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6/28 GT: Sox @ LAAAAAA - WHY IS TLR STILL HERE?

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7 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

 

Leury playing yet again and in the outfield again....

fuck-off-fuck-this-shit.gif

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55 minutes ago, wegner said:

Offense vs Defense is an age old argument.  I have long thought that if Ozzie had played Anderson in CF most every day over Mackowiak, they would have made the playoffs in 2006.

The core middle (CF, SS, 2B and C) are very important, and the Sox have been solid for the most part there, but their corners save Moncada are atrocious.  

Dombrowski was like fuck it, sign mashers and defense be damned. Hurt their pitching, and they are a few games over .500 with the six best run scoring offense. Sox are 23rd in runs scored, though their sucky defense has been the primary factor of ranking 23rd in runs allowed, despite being league average in Pitching fWAR (14th).

The White Sox desperately need a capable / acceptable defensive right fielder. This would be the case even if one of the DHs Hahn signed to play RF was hitting decent. Play Eloy/Vaughn at LF/DH, have solid defense everywhere else (when Grandal isn't catching). Would really help the starters and relievers not have to pitch through 4-5 out innings. 

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2 hours ago, pettie4sox said:

La Russa has just ruined this team.  Just an utter absolute 🤡

What bothers me about this post is it totally absolves the rest of the FO, training staff, and players. 

It's why I sometimes wonder if the La Russa hire was looked at as a good thing by Hahn and Williams. If the Sox win, great....everyone celebrates, everyone goes home happy. If they lose, it's not about the roster construction anymore, it's now on TLR and his failures in the dugout and keeping guys healthy. When in reality, this roster was flawed entering the season, and obviously still is today. 

It's not to say TLR isn't a huge problem. He is. You're correct in your use of the clown emoji. But I just don't want people to lose sight of how big of a failure this is across the board. No one should come out clean of this mess, but I fear people will. 

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3 minutes ago, Tony said:

What bothers me about this post is it totally absolves the rest of the FO, training staff, and players. 

It's why I sometimes wonder if the La Russa hire was looked at as a good thing by Hahn and Williams. If the Sox win, great....everyone celebrates, everyone goes home happy. If they lose, it's not about the roster construction anymore, it's now on TLR and his failures in the dugout and keeping guys healthy. When in reality, this roster was flawed entering the season, and obviously still is today. 

It's not to say TLR isn't a huge problem. He is. You're correct in your use of the clown emoji. But I just don't want people to lose sight of how big of a failure this is across the board. No one should come out clean of this mess, but I fear people will. 

Plenty of fans on Twitter absolve Hahn thanks to WSD and it drives me crazy

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41 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

 

Garcia - Robert - Sheets in the outfield… clown show.

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18 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Plenty of fans on Twitter absolve Hahn thanks to WSD and it drives me crazy

It’s been on Hahn since 2013.

Most here were bowing at his feet for his ridiculous GM of the Year award after signing Parrot, Mazara, fWAR and Keuchel to long contracts, and extended Ricky.

Ryan Pace was cut off after a few years, fellow GM of the year Gar (who unlike Hahn had a winning record and some playoff success) of GarPax once Jerry finally left the day to day with his son.

Hahn is not going anywhere until Jerry is no longer President of the White Sox. He will likely outlast Tony. He is far more responsible for this shitshow than Tony, as bad as Tony has been.

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40 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Leury playing yet again and in the outfield again....

fuck-off-fuck-this-shit.gif

Is there something wrong with Pollock?

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Just now, CentralChamps21 said:

Is there something wrong with Pollock?

Nothing public that I see 

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6 hours ago, wegner said:

Could not agree with you more.

From that draft We got two players That can hit at the major league level but could not field a baseball if it stopped rolling. I was ultra critical of that draft at the time as it really underscored Nick Hostetler’s and the White Sox poor judgement

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10 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Is there something wrong with Pollock?

His bat. 

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2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

His bat. 

OK but not bad enough to play Leury in his place.

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1 minute ago, CentralChamps21 said:

OK but not bad enough to play Leury in his place.

Agreed, was mostly kidding.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

It’s been on Hahn since 2013.

Most here were bowing at his feet for his ridiculous GM of the Year award after signing Parrot, Mazara, fWAR and Keuchel to long contracts, and extended Ricky.

Ryan Pace was cut off after a few years, fellow GM of the year Gar (who unlike Hahn had a winning record and some playoff success) of GarPax once Jerry finally left the day to day with his son.

Hahn is not going anywhere until Jerry is no longer President of the White Sox. He will likely outlast Tony. He is far more responsible for this shitshow than Tony, as bad as Tony has been.

I think Hahn hasn't been good but Jerry hamstrings him with the type of contracts he can hand out and if Jerry thinks the player is not below market value, then they can't sign him. 

For all we know, Eduardo Escobar may have been outside budget. 

Also, given how the Sox are getting burned by Moncada and Eloy's extensions, good luck getting Jerry to sign off on those again. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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I love today's White Sox Talk podcast because it's basically blaming TLR for the season but because it's the NBC Sports Chicago podcast they don't come out and say it.

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1 hour ago, Polar Bear said:

Leury playing yet again and in the outfield again....

fuck-off-fuck-this-shit.gif

This Leury guy must be pretty good, as he plays almost everyday. We should be able to get a haul for him at the trade deadline. Do it Rick Hahn!

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4 hours ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said:

Have some stones and DFA Leury Garcia.  Sosa has made some loud outs with nothing to show for and has flashed a decent glove/footwork at 2B.  He has nowhere to go but up.

 

Leury Garcia is a wasted paycheck at this point.  

If he is playing I probably don't watch.  They will lose. 

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I am NO TLR apologist but WHAT THE FUCK IS HE SUPPOSED TO DO? Everyone else is injured!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Here's the difference, no one else suffers from bad offense.  If Yoan Moncada strikes out on three pitches, that doesn't hurt anyone else.  If Jake Burger boots a ball at 3rd, the pitcher now has to pitch over it.  It adds to their pitch count and gets them out of the game earlier.  It forces another bad reliever into the game, or forces a good reliever into throwing even more pitches.  It can cost us needed relievers for the next days as we cover the extra pitches and innings.

We have already seen the results of horrible team defense with relievers being hurt, sore, and unavailable for days at a time.

I would argue guys being sent in risky situations by the 3rd base coach is the downside result of a bad offense.  Because we can't score runs in bunches this year, the coaches,  are pressing guys into tough sends.  Again no one else suffers because of this.  You make extra outs, that is it.

As for the Vaughn mention, I will simply note that Adam Engel was playing RF a lot more often before he got hurt, and I am sure his defense was fully the reason why.

So are you recommending Vaughn, Sheets and Burger all sit  or just Burger and Sheets sit ? I'm very unclear on your plan. Is the team better with Haseley in the OF every day and the best defensive lineup you can find ?

It's one thing to say or the bad defense means extra pitches for the pitchers but how many bad defenders should be in the game at one time? How do you know who is going to get the ball hit in their direction more often in every game where it makes a difference ?

If the season is lost play the young guys and who cares about the defense. Time to learn on the job and if the pitchers suffer so be it. Find takers for the older guys like Abreu, Hendriks, Harrison, Pollock, Lynn and see if you can get some more upper level arms. There is no time for sentiment.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So are you recommending Vaughn, Sheets and Burger all sit  or just Burger and Sheets sit ? I'm very unclear on your plan. Is the team better with Haseley in the OF every day and the best defensive lineup you can find ?

It's one thing to say or the bad defense means extra pitches for the pitchers but how many bad defenders should be in the game at one time? How do you know who is going to get the ball hit in their direction more often in every game where it makes a difference ?

If the season is lost play the young guys and who cares about the defense. Time to learn on the job and if the pitchers suffer so be it. Find takers for the older guys like Abreu, Harrison, Pollock, Lynn and see if you can get some more upper level arms. There is no time for sentiment.

While Burger is certainly not a good defensive 3B at this point, I would say his defense at 3B is better than the outfield defense of Sheets or Vaughn.  The problem with moving Burger to DH is you're then basically forcing one or both of Vaughn and Sheets into the outfield.

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19 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Fangraphs has our catchers as 3rd best in defensive fWAR. WUT?

McGuire is a stud behind the plate

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5 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

While Burger is certainly not a good defensive 3B at this point, I would say his defense at 3B is better than the outfield defense of Sheets or Vaughn.  The problem with moving Burger to DH is you're then basically forcing one or both of Vaughn and Sheets into the outfield.

I'm not arguing one way or another who should DH or who should play the OF. It's pick your poison any way you slice it. Vaughn belongs at 1st base. Abreu is in the way and he might be a valuable trade chip along with Hendriks, Gravemen, Kelly and Lynn. You might get a minimal return for Pollock and Harrison but they should be moved as well. I also don't care if they move Sheets or Burger just to rid themselves of DH types.

At this point if trading Eloy and Moncada is not in the cards because of their nonperformance or injury and value being down the only way the Sox can compete next year is to roll with their upsides. If you trade so much pitching then you better get some in return and let Davis Martin pitch the rest of the season and perhaps you can get a few LH promising bats too.

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

What bothers me about this post is it totally absolves the rest of the FO, training staff, and players. 

It's why I sometimes wonder if the La Russa hire was looked at as a good thing by Hahn and Williams. If the Sox win, great....everyone celebrates, everyone goes home happy. If they lose, it's not about the roster construction anymore, it's now on TLR and his failures in the dugout and keeping guys healthy. When in reality, this roster was flawed entering the season, and obviously still is today. 

It's not to say TLR isn't a huge problem. He is. You're correct in your use of the clown emoji. But I just don't want people to lose sight of how big of a failure this is across the board. No one should come out clean of this mess, but I fear people will. 

This is how I look at it. Tell me another manager that does better with the people on the roster, underperformance and the injuries. Maybe another manager has the Sox at .500 . Big deal.

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