cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Mel Gibson is a member of groups that reject Vatican II very much including the reason that Vatican II removed the condemnation of Jewish people for killing Jesus. Yes, Mel Gibson belongs to anti-Semitic groups. Gibson and his father are prominent in small hate church bodies which describe their selves as "catholic" but not recognizing any Pope anymore since the papal withdrawal of the condemnation of the Jews - the heart of millenia of anti Semitism. Frank Rich, a New York Times critic, wrote a column last August critical of Gibson's upcoming movie. Gibson's response, in the September 15, 2003 New Yorker was to say of Rich, "I want to kill him, I want his intestines on a stick... I want to kill his dog." Father John Pawlikowski, a man I know, professor of social ethics at Chicago's Catholic Theological Union, a man who works closely with Jewish-Christian dialogue following the Holocaust, has termed the script of the movie "one of the worst things we'd seen in 25 years." That is in the 8 February 2004 Chicago Tribune. I would not consider going to see this anti-Semitic filth under any circumstances. Gibson has lied about taking out anti-Semitic lines of dialogue, saying there were taken out which they were but then put back in. And his script is based on the visions of Anne Catherine Emmerich, not a Biblical scholar but a fierce anti-Semite with fevered visions of stigmata and crucifixion and how she saw it happen in her vision. Support this if you must, but consider what you are supporting - a new however artistic expression of hate that is even more sick because it uses the Passion story to bring us back to anti-Semitism in the guise of Church teaching. He will reap millions for getting churches to sell tickets to his movie. Those churches should repent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 You make several good points but i still want to see the movie because i want to see how it is portrayed. As a deist i don't think my opinion of religion will change but you can learn from observing the opposite viewpoint. Gods And Generals was a historicaly inacurate and biased film but i learned what the opposite side was feeling. We need to be more open, and after we see the movie we can tear him a new one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Just a quick question.... if he's PRO-JESUS, who along with most of his followers were Jewish, and then he's maybe Anti-religious leaders of the time, whom also were Jewish, doesn't that make him selectively Anti-semetic? or Just maybe he hates a certain group of people who historically were taught to hundreds of millions of Christians as the killers of Jesus. I mean, truly it's semantics, because clearly I hate Hitler and his cronies, but I'm not anti-germanic? (don't know if that's the word). I guess I just would be careful of such accusations and name calling. but then again, it's me...so whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Those churches should repent. anymore than the thousands of failing churches in America? The state of the American church is pathetic. There's no difference between a church-goer and the people of "the world". we all drive nice cars, have nice clothes, donate to political campaigns and forget about the people in need....not just economic need, but emotional/physical/life needs. I dare not say that about Cdub, because he's stated the many programs he's involved with, so please don't take that personally. I simply say that as a challenge to those of us, and yes, I DEFINITELY include myself in that category, who dream to "change" this world in some way for the better. Does this movie do that? dude, I really don't know. I choose not to focus on the "who killed Jesus" CSI episode that some people might want to make this, and instead look deeply and somberly upon the fact that a man did die all for the sake of our salvation from a hopeless end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Mel Gibson is a member of groups that reject Vatican II very much including the reason that Vatican II removed the condemnation of Jewish people for killing Jesus. Yes, Mel Gibson belongs to anti-Semitic groups. Gibson and his father are prominent in small hate church bodies which describe their selves as "catholic" but not recognizing any Pope anymore since the papal withdrawal of the condemnation of the Jews - the heart of millenia of anti Semitism. Frank Rich, a New York Times critic, wrote a column last August critical of Gibson's upcoming movie. Gibson's response, in the September 15, 2003 New Yorker was to say of Rich, "I want to kill him, I want his intestines on a stick... I want to kill his dog." Father John Pawlikowski, a man I know, professor of social ethics at Chicago's Catholic Theological Union, a man who works closely with Jewish-Christian dialogue following the Holocaust, has termed the script of the movie "one of the worst things we'd seen in 25 years." That is in the 8 February 2004 Chicago Tribune. I would not consider going to see this anti-Semitic filth under any circumstances. Gibson has lied about taking out anti-Semitic lines of dialogue, saying there were taken out which they were but then put back in. And his script is based on the visions of Anne Catherine Emmerich, not a Biblical scholar but a fierce anti-Semite with fevered visions of stigmata and crucifixion and how she saw it happen in her vision. Support this if you must, but consider what you are supporting - a new however artistic expression of hate that is even more sick because it uses the Passion story to bring us back to anti-Semitism in the guise of Church teaching. :fyou mel gibson :finger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I would not consider going to see this anti-Semitic filth under any circumstances Then how can you criticise it? I've read parts of the script re-writes, but until I see this abomination, I reserve my judgement. Not wanting to line his pockets is one thing-- and I would agree with not going to see it for second, third, fourth times.....but not seeing it AT ALL? I dunno, maybe I am not getting something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 review in the daily southtown http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dsindex/12-ds5.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Frank Rich, a New York Times critic, wrote a column last August critical of Gibson's upcoming movie. Gibson's response, in the September 15, 2003 New Yorker was to say of Rich, "I want to kill him, I want his intestines on a stick... I want to kill his dog." :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Gods And Generals was a historicaly inacurate and biased film but i learned what the opposite side was feeling Ted Turner biased and historically-selective? Such Yankee blasphemy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Just a quick question.... if he's PRO-JESUS, who along with most of his followers were Jewish, and then he's maybe Anti-religious leaders of the time, whom also were Jewish, doesn't that make him selectively Anti-semetic? or Just maybe he hates a certain group of people who historically were taught to hundreds of millions of Christians as the killers of Jesus. I mean, truly it's semantics, because clearly I hate Hitler and his cronies, but I'm not anti-germanic? (don't know if that's the word). I guess I just would be careful of such accusations and name calling. but then again, it's me...so whatever. just because you are jewish doesnt mean you practice that religion it is a race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Father John Pawlikowski, a man I know, professor of social ethics at Chicago's Catholic Theological Union, a man who works closely with Jewish-Christian dialogue following the Holocaust, has termed the script of the movie "one of the worst things we'd seen in 25 years." That is in the 8 February 2004 Chicago Tribune. And I've read a lot of comments from priests and clergy that do support Vatican II and enjoyed this movie and encourage others to see it. I'm going to go see it. I can't wait to see it. I don't hate Jews. I don't let movies tell me how to feel. If it makes me anti-semitic in someone else's eyes, that's their insecurity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 PA, not you in general! as a specific event in a place in time that was performed by the Romans, the crucifixion of Jesus was of course a theological and salvific necessity and is understood to have been done in its real sense by all of us as it was for th atonement of the sin of all of us and that is where I read you as being very much - the problem is that some people from the beginning of the Church have used the event as a way of blood guilt to lay upon the Jewish people - millenia of history have shown that - pogroms almost always broke out in Europe, where they did, around Holy Week and the general antiSemitism always began with "they killed Jesus didn't they" as if bigotry or killing against/of Jews culminating in the Holocaust was a proper response to Calvary that the Gibson family has the views it has and has made a movie which the script - and all I spoke of was the script which has been available - repeats all that blood guilt stuff, then that is worthy of comment interesting that Gibson has screened his movie only for evangelical and conservative Catholic groups - he has refused screenings for seminary (Christian and Jewish( faculties, the National Council of Churches, Jewish groups, Jewish religious organizations) - by billing himself as a martyr to "the liberals" and "political correctness" has been a great marketing ploy and that very approach to me bears out the deep concerns of course since Mel wants to rip out the intestines (little too much Braveheart, there, Mel!) of his critics, we need to be very careful in criticizing him! a lot of my dear clergy friends in my community are buying tickets by the score for their church members to see it as a "witness to Christ against the antGospel attackers of this dear Christian man and his wonderful movie" - this is the shrewdist marketing campaign that I have ever seen - and my friends are convinced that any criticism of the script or the marketing campaign or the film's maker is against Jesus - what does one say, I think they are not looking at the known facts, they think I am wrong because I am so "liberal", and we love each other and work for good together in other ways my comment that those churches should repent was a little over the top and I would have had a better post had I not stated that and I do withdraw that statement - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 my comment that those churches should repent was a little over the top and I would have had a better post had I not stated that and I do withdraw that statement - Honorable of you. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 just because you are jewish doesnt mean you practice that religion it is a race. Jewish is not a race... http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/race.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 We're going to see it. It's a movie. Entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Jewish is not a race... http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/race.html yea it is they have there own little nose, and personality. noone counts them has there own because they get thrown in the no hispanic race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 my comment that those churches should repent was a little over the top and I would have had a better post had I not stated that and I do withdraw that statement - Just so long as you don't stop using cool words like 'salvific' in your posts! Man, SAT scores are gonna go through the roof with the high school posters here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 yea it is they have there own little nose, and personality. Steff is correct, you are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Steff is correct, you are not. well sorry. i have none people that have been jewish and not of that religon. do a search for it on yahoo, google etc. you will see. everyone just hates them so they are not classified has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 well sorry. i have none people that have been jewish and not of that religon. What does religion have to do with race?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 What does religion have to do with race?? all i said was there was a jewish race, and you said it wasnt. i think you should do more research on this before you say im wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 all i said was there was a jewish race, and you said it wasnt. i think you should do more research on this before you say im wrong. You are wrong. There isn't. The census link was provided. Jewish is not a race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 You are wrong. There isn't. The census link was provided. Jewish is not a race. research jewish race, and you will see it is. they are just not counted as there own race because they are thrown in with the whites, do some other research on this. http://www.anti-racism.supanet.com/rac/racist.htm http://www.tagnet.org/llt/jewish.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Does this movie do that? dude, I really don't know. I choose not to focus on the "who killed Jesus" CSI episode that some people might want to make this, and instead look deeply and somberly upon the fact that a man did die all for the sake of our salvation from a hopeless end. a great analogy with "CSI" the question of who that man was and what happened there - as you say, that would be worthwhile I hope my other post was written well enough to be understood by readers as my agreeing with you on things Mr Eye, I love you always! And whether one is Catholic or not, it is a great curiousity that the pr for this movie has claimed the Pope's endorsement when the Vatican vehemently denies the Pope doing so - the pre release press campaign has been one of the most curious in history, and perhaps most effective but I should probably back off all the way since I do not want Mel ripping my intestines out and putting them on a stick or killing my dog - comments he made about Frank Rich in an interview to the New Yorker which shows how much the mesage of the Gospel has influenced the course of Gibson's life when he was not flashing his naked butt in film after film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 research jewish race, and you will see it is. they are just not counted as there own race because they are thrown in with the whites, do some other research on this. http://www.anti-racism.supanet.com/rac/racist.htm http://www.tagnet.org/llt/jewish.htm I don't need to research anything. "Jewish" is NOT a recognized "race". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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