WSox30 Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 If he wants 1-2 million, then I can live with that for another year or two, but if he wants 5+ million for next season....ship his ass to Japan for all I care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 If he wants 1-2 million, then I can live with that for another year or two, but if he wants 5+ million for next season....ship his ass to Japan for all I care. You DO realize that Jose signed the 5 Mill a year deal back in 2001 when A-Rod got 25 Mill and Jeter - nearly 20? That era of over-valuation is over....for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 You DO realize that Jose signed the 5 Mill a year deal back in 2001 when A-Rod got 25 Mill and Jeter - nearly 20? That era of over-valuation is over....for now. Yes your right. Both are seriously overpaid, but Jose doesn't hit .300 40 150 like Arod or .320 20 110 like Jeter also, even though Jose hits 25 dingers a year. He also makes alittle more errors as well, and considering how high the yank$ and bosox money income is, 5+ million for him in a low market team like us, is like 15+ million for a high market team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSox30 Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 sorry if this has already been posted... Valentin deserves less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Yes your right. Both are seriously overpaid, but Jose doesn't hit .300 40 150 like Arod or .320 20 110 like Jeter also, even though Jose hits 25 dingers a year. He also makes alittle more errors as well, and considering how high the yank$ and bosox money income is, 5+ million for him in a low market team like us, is like 15+ million for a high market team. You missed the point completely: the market is not on the upswing; teams are no longer willing to grossely ovepay as they did in the 2001 offseason, so Jose would be stupid to ask for "5+ mill" after this season. He won't even ask for 4. Or 3. Thank for playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Thank for playing. No problem.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 sorry if this has already been posted... Valentin deserves less Yawn. I could tell you that Valentin, with all his typical April errors (had 8 in April 2003), still has ZoneRating higher than Uribe (920+), which means he fielded a higher % of balls than most SS. His RangeFactor is pretty high too. I could tell you that Uribe has settled down after initial struggles and is playing excellent 2B and 3B, so Sox could keep them both in the line-up. In fact, with Rowand sucking, it's possible to keep Harris playing as well. Imagine that. I could tell you that batting from the left side, Jose has an 860 OPS as a member of the White Sox. I could tell you that his OPS with RISP in those 4+ years is well over 900. I could tell you that Strike-Outs are a near-meaningless stat -- he hasn't grounded into more than 10 DP's in many years, despite having hamtring-related loss of speed. I could tell you that neither Harris or Uribe have ANY track record of success, and therefore cannot be counted on in the long run. Jose blew them both away in Spring Training, including defensively. Thrre are a lot of things I could tell you, but what would be the point? We all know he isn't worth the 5 Mill. How about we all collectively get over it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 This thread just proves my theory-- BrandoFan loves David Hasselhoff, er, I mean, Jose Valentin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 He doesn't own any minor league team. He is part owner of a winter league team. BIG DIFFERENCE love your avatar! so cute!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 Yes your right. Both are seriously overpaid, but Jose doesn't hit .300 40 150 like Arod or .320 20 110 like Jeter also, even though Jose hits 25 dingers a year. .320 20 110 and .275 25 90...what's the big difference? Jose signed that deal in the 00-01 offseason, after having that .275 25 90 year. I guaran-f***ing-tee you that the difference is not $15 mill worth. During that time period, Jose actually got took a very big paycut...I'm pretty sure it was Baltimore who wanted him and offered a better deal to go play in Baltimore(which is more hitter friendly than USCF), but he gave us a hometown discount. He also makes alittle more errors as well Errors are OVER-f***ING-RATED. They are a 60s and 70s stat, not a 21st century stat. They do NOT tell a true value of a SS defensively. Royce Clayton made very few errors, but no major leaguer should make errors if there range is 3 steps either way. Either way, Jeter still makes 15-20 errors a year, and his range factor is always well below the league average, except for his 2 first full years in the league(when he was 22 and 23). I'm not quite sure how you lose about 3 steps both ways as a 24-year old, but Derek found a way to do it. Give me Jose over Jeter ANY day of the week, especially considering how much both make. and considering how high the yank$ and bosox money income is, 5+ million for him in a low market team like us, is like 15+ million for a high market team. This sentence is so far from the truth I don't know where to begin. First of all, 3 to 4 years ago, the market was very high...Kevin Appier found a way to get a $10 mill a year somehow...I think I've said enough, but I'll continue. Due to that, you had to pay a lot for players, which is why ARod got $25 mill a year(and while he obviously doesn't deserve that, he actually deserves some of that money). Meanwhile, Derek Jeter is putting up mediocre numbers for $20 mill...that's overpaid. The only year he "earned" his money was 1999 when he hit about .350 25 110 with a .990 OPS(and that is still the only year to date that he has broken the .900 OPS barrier...all other years, he's been below that, though he did come close with .896 in 2000). He's worth $10 mill tops, and personally, I don't think he's worth that...I would maybe give him $8 mill a year, and that's just because he's been to the WS and he's done very well there. Secondly, the Chicago White Sox are NOT a small market team...they are the exact OPPOSITE of a small market team, considering they play in the 3RD largest market in the US. They are a team that has a firm payroll. There is a HUGE difference between a small market team and a small payroll team. HUGE. And thirdly...the market for players is the same for everyone in the MLB. They are all in the same league, and all are in the same general area(I can't say same country because Montreal and Toronto are in Canada). Teams have to be careful of how they spend their money if they do not spend a lot, but if they want an Alex Rodriguez, they would have to pay $25 mill regardless of whether they are in Texas, California, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, or Ontario. I've wanted these players with ugly contracts dealt because it's doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing, which is spending money efficiently. Unless you can afford it, you should spend $10 mill on 3 or 4 players instead of 1. You should spend $20 mill on 7 or 8 players instead of 2 or 3. That's why I want Lee, Konerko, and Koch(who make about $20 mill between the 3 of them) out of here...they are all solid players(with the potential exception of Koch), but they make too much money, especially when we could have had a guy like Frank Cattalanotto for $1 mill(he has been a steal for Toronto), or a guy like Reggie Sanders for $3 mill a year(yet another steal, this time for St. Louis), or Jose Cruz for $1-2 mill(which is a pretty good deal...not a steal, but he's still a solid player nonetheless)...you get the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 .320 20 110 and .275 25 90...what's the big difference? Jose signed that deal in the 00-01 offseason, after having that .275 25 90 year. I guaran-f***ing-tee you that the difference is not $15 mill worth. During that time period, Jose actually got took a very big paycut...I'm pretty sure it was Baltimore who wanted him and offered a better deal to go play in Baltimore(which is more hitter friendly than USCF), but he gave us a hometown discount. Errors are OVER-f***ING-RATED. They are a 60s and 70s stat, not a 21st century stat. They do NOT tell a true value of a SS defensively. Royce Clayton made very few errors, but no major leaguer should make errors if there range is 3 steps either way. Either way, Jeter still makes 15-20 errors a year, and his range factor is always well below the league average, except for his 2 first full years in the league(when he was 22 and 23). I'm not quite sure how you lose about 3 steps both ways as a 24-year old, but Derek found a way to do it. Give me Jose over Jeter ANY day of the week, especially considering how much both make. This sentence is so far from the truth I don't know where to begin. First of all, 3 to 4 years ago, the market was very high...Kevin Appier found a way to get a $10 mill a year somehow...I think I've said enough, but I'll continue. Due to that, you had to pay a lot for players, which is why ARod got $25 mill a year(and while he obviously doesn't deserve that, he actually deserves some of that money). Meanwhile, Derek Jeter is putting up mediocre numbers for $20 mill...that's overpaid. The only year he "earned" his money was 1999 when he hit about .350 25 110 with a .990 OPS(and that is still the only year to date that he has broken the .900 OPS barrier...all other years, he's been below that, though he did come close with .896 in 2000). He's worth $10 mill tops, and personally, I don't think he's worth that...I would maybe give him $8 mill a year, and that's just because he's been to the WS and he's done very well there. Secondly, the Chicago White Sox are NOT a small market team...they are the exact OPPOSITE of a small market team, considering they play in the 3RD largest market in the US. They are a team that has a firm payroll. There is a HUGE difference between a small market team and a small payroll team. HUGE. And thirdly...the market for players is the same for everyone in the MLB. They are all in the same league, and all are in the same general area(I can't say same country because Montreal and Toronto are in Canada). Teams have to be careful of how they spend their money if they do not spend a lot, but if they want an Alex Rodriguez, they would have to pay $25 mill regardless of whether they are in Texas, California, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, or Ontario. I've wanted these players with ugly contracts dealt because it's doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing, which is spending money efficiently. Unless you can afford it, you should spend $10 mill on 3 or 4 players instead of 1. You should spend $20 mill on 7 or 8 players instead of 2 or 3. That's why I want Lee, Konerko, and Koch(who make about $20 mill between the 3 of them) out of here...they are all solid players(with the potential exception of Koch), but they make too much money, especially when we could have had a guy like Frank Cattalanotto for $1 mill(he has been a steal for Toronto), or a guy like Reggie Sanders for $3 mill a year(yet another steal, this time for St. Louis), or Jose Cruz for $1-2 mill(which is a pretty good deal...not a steal, but he's still a solid player nonetheless)...you get the picture. Wite, Brando already broke down pretty much of what you said, so I won't say most of what you wrote was said already.. I agree that errors are overated, but that .275 is the only high average you will ever see from Jose. I already knew we are a large market team with an iffy payroll, but I'm saying that's what it'll be like for a big market team with a high payroll. You don't have to always tutor a poster if you don't agree with anything, even though your remarks are right on the money.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 From BA By Jim Callis May 14, 2004 I know that Jose Valentin has good pop, but I was a little surprised when I saw that his home run Tuesday night was the 200th of his career. He now ranks seventh on the all-time homer list for players whose primary position was shortstop, and he could make it up to No. 3 by the end of his career: Shortstop HR Cal Ripken Jr. 431 Alex Rodriguez 352 Robin Yount 251 Vern Stephens 247 Roy Smalley 224 Rico Petrocelli 210 Jose Valentin 200 Jay Bell 195 Barry Larkin 191 Alan Trammell 185 I also noticed that Valentin's career average is just .246, which led me to wonder where he stands on the all-time homer list for sub-.250 hitters. He's currently tied for 15th, though he should crack the top 10 at some point in 2005: Player AVG HR Dave Kingman .236 442 Darrell Evans .248 414 Graig Nettles .248 390 Greg Vaughn .242 355 Tom Brunansky .245 271 Gorman Thomas .225 268 Deron Johnson .244 245 Mickey Tettleton .241 245 Rob Deer .220 230 Howard Johnson .249 228 Roy Smalley .248 224 Pete Incaviglia .246 206 Todd Hundley .234 202 Gene Tenace .241 201 Don Mincher .249 200 Jose Valentin .246 200 Thanks to Friend of Ask BA Rob Miller (Oakland) for providing the research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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