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Worth It?

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OK, I'm getting into a few flame wars here and I am wondering what everyone means when they say a player is "worth it"

 

Worth it to whom? The fans? The owners? Their team mates?

 

Please what's your definition?

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Two responses based on players

 

Billy Koch

 

He is not "worth" 6 milliion for the crap he pulls.

 

Juan Uribe

 

Based on his performance he is "worth" a contract extension.

 

 

Worth is the amount of value he is to the team, based on what he is being paid.

 

Ah f*** it, i feel like im in school.

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Two responses based on players

 

Billy Koch

 

He is not "worth" 6 milliion for the crap he pulls.

 

Juan Uribe

 

Based on his performance he is "worth" a contract extension.

 

 

Worth is the amount of value he is to the team, based on what he is being paid.

 

Ah f*** it, i feel like im in school.

So as a fan you enjoy a player who is playing above his contract and not enjoying a player who is playing below his contract, regardless of performance? That's what I have a problem with. I enjoy watching E-Lo. I don't care if he's making $10,000,000 or $1,000,000.

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No,

 

 

for instance.

 

 

If someone is being paid a s*** load and is putting up great numbers he is worth it.

If someone is being pad a s*** laod and sucks ass he is not worth it.

 

 

I think fans like the underdog player being paid a low amount to do well.

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So you are judging a player based on his paycheck? Does that add to your enjoyment of the game?

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Manny Ramirez is worth it -- Best right handed hitter in baseball, a joy to watch hit.

Magglio Ordonez is not worth it -- An above average ball player, period.

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Manny Ramirez is worth it -- Best right handed hitter in baseball, a joy to watch hit.

Magglio Ordonez is not worth it -- An above average ball player, period.

So, if I am understanding this correctly. No to Maggs if we can have someone with less stats and a lot less money? For example a guy at minimum wage hitting .280 with 10 hr 55 rbi

 

This is getting to my point.

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So, if I am understanding this correctly. No to Maggs if we can have someone with less stats and a lot less money? For example a guy at minimum wage hitting .280 with 10 hr 55 rbi

 

This is getting to my point.

Tex this is what I mean when I say maggs isn't worth 14 million. With that money the sox could maybe go out and sign garcia and maybe 2 other quality players. Maybe one of them being a closer. So you fill 3 wholes with 14 million, instead of playing one player that much money when your better off filling other wholes.

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Tex this is what I mean when I say maggs isn't worth 14 million.  With that money the sox could maybe go out and sign garcia and maybe 2 other quality players.  Maybe one of them being a closer.  So you fill 3 wholes with 14 million, instead of playing one player that much money when your better off filling other wholes.

I can accept that. Keep fielding a team with guys making $1 million to $4 or $5 million and hope to catch a winner. Just have some above average guys everywhere and if they make a couple All-Star teams while under contract, try and trade them for some draft picks and prospects before they cost a bunch of money.

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I can accept that. Keep fielding a team with guys making $1 million to $4 or $5 million and hope to catch a winner. Just have some above average guys everywhere and if they make a couple All-Star teams while under contract, try and trade them for some draft picks and prospects before they cost a bunch of money.

To add on to that, with the way this sox team is set up I think thats the way to go. Next year, the sox have frank, carlos, pk, olivo, willie, uribe and hopefully crede will pick it up and be a big part of this core also. Anways what I'm saying is no matter what happens with maggs you still have a pretty darn good offensive core back for next year. You can afford to put borchard or reed in right field and maybe the other in center. Then put that 14 million towards pitching, pick up garcia or maybe resign him if he's traded here. Pick up a reliable closer and pick up another relief pitcher. Plus koch and jose gone, resign loaiza and then you keep a darn good rotation in tact. Add two quality arms to a bullpen that will most likely have damaso, shingo, adkins and cotts already there. All of the sudden you have a great rotation and a pretty darn good bullpen with a very solid lineup, you have a very solid team.

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Manny Ramirez is worth it -- Best right handed hitter in baseball, a joy to watch hit.

?.... Albert Pujols

 

Ide have to say hes a better player than Manny

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To add on to that, with the way this sox team is set up I think thats the way to go.  Next year, the sox have frank, carlos, pk, olivo, willie, uribe and hopefully crede will pick it up and be a big part of this core also.  Anways what I'm saying is no matter what happens with maggs you still have a pretty darn good offensive core back for next year.  You can afford to put borchard or reed in right field and maybe the other in center.  Then put that 14 million towards pitching, pick up garcia or maybe resign him if he's traded here.  Pick up a reliable closer and pick up another relief pitcher.  Plus koch and jose gone, resign loaiza and then you keep a darn good rotation in tact.  Add two quality arms to a bullpen that will most likely have damaso, shingo, adkins and cotts already there.  All of the sudden you have a great rotation and a pretty darn good bullpen with a very solid lineup, you have a very solid team.

And then when Carlos's contract is up and he looks for bigger dollars, drop him and rebuild again. As long as we continue to draft smart, pick up a FA or two, we can stay a threat to make the playoffs.

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And then when Carlos's contract is up and he looks for bigger dollars, drop him and rebuild again.  As long as we continue to  draft smart, pick up a FA or two, we can stay a threat to make the playoffs.

You're being really, really ignorant, you know that? You would make a terrible GM, but believe what you want.

 

THere is a think called market value. Magglio Ordonez is asking for upwards of 14 million a year. Magglio Ordonez is a solid player, I'd compare him to Garret Anderson or Bobby Abreu. So Garret Anderson just signed an extension of 4/48$. So, IMO and the opinions of many others on this board (discluding yours), Maggs is, at most, worth about 13 million per year. But Maggs wants more. He wants 14, or 15 million a year. That is too much for a player who isn't as good as Vlad Guerrero, who makes right around that amount.

 

We all love Maggs and what he's done. But you aren't understanding, I dont know why, but the Sox have offered Maggs more than fair contract, yet he's declined the offers for 12 and 13 million a year.

 

And you said, once Carlos Lee gets in his prime, the Sox will let him go. Wrong again, buddy, Carlos Lee signed an extension this past offseason. Same with Mark Buerhle. Why? Because they were asking for fair value, and the Sox gave it to him.

 

It's probably also too hard for you to understand, but pitching is more important than hitting.

 

And, if you want to define success as a World Series Title, than I guess 29 other teams will suck this year, and every year, because only one team can win a title per year... And if the Cubs are so 'successful', where are their titles?

 

Don't try telling me that the Athletics aren't a successful franchise, because, you'll be wrong yet again...

 

:dips***

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Manny Ramirez is worth it -- Best right handed hitter in baseball, a joy to watch hit.

Your Sox are showing... :headshake

 

Did you see how well he played that flyball last night against the Dodgers?

 

That's WORTH it huh...

 

 

:lol:

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You're being really, really ignorant, you know that?  You would make a terrible GM, but believe what you want.

 

THere is a think called market value.  Magglio Ordonez is asking for upwards of 14 million a year.  Magglio Ordonez is a solid player, I'd compare him to Garret Anderson or Bobby Abreu.  So Garret Anderson just signed an extension of 4/48$.  So, IMO and the opinions of many others on this board (discluding yours), Maggs is, at most, worth about 13 million per year.  But Maggs wants more.  He wants 14, or 15 million a year.  That is too much for a player who isn't as good as Vlad Guerrero, who makes right around that amount.

 

We all love Maggs and what he's done.  But you aren't understanding, I dont know why, but the Sox have offered Maggs more than fair contract, yet he's declined the offers for 12 and 13 million a year. 

 

And you said, once Carlos Lee gets in his prime, the Sox will let him go.  Wrong again, buddy, Carlos Lee signed an extension this past offseason.  Same with Mark Buerhle.  Why?  Because they were asking for fair value, and the Sox gave it to him.

 

It's probably also too hard for you to understand, but pitching is more important than hitting.

 

And, if you want to define success as a World Series Title, than I guess 29 other teams will suck this year, and every year, because only one team can win a title per year...  And if the Cubs are so 'successful', where are their titles?

 

Don't try telling me that the Athletics aren't a successful franchise, because, you'll be wrong yet again...

 

:dips***

:lolhitting :lolhitting

 

Let's dream really big

 

Maybe we can lose in the playoffs for 4 or 5 years straight :cheers :cheers :headbang :headbang

 

WHoo Whoo Playoff Loses Whoo Whooo

 

Party on Michigan Avenue :snr

 

I love your goals for the Sox. I wish you were GM.

 

Are you at least hoping for a second round exit? Or is just making the playoffs enough to be a success?

 

You are signing a guy for the length of the contract. Some players will perform great, others will not. Some will have great year 1 others, their exit year. I am not trying to defend Maggs and his signing.

 

Again, enjoy baseball the way you like, all this performance to contract as compared to other players.

 

Tell me how the White Sox fans today are better off without Colon?

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:lolhitting  :lolhitting

 

Let's dream really big

 

Maybe we can lose in the playoffs for 4 or 5 years straight :cheers  :cheers  :headbang  :headbang

 

WHoo Whoo Playoff Loses Whoo Whooo

 

Party on Michigan Avenue  :snr 

 

I love your goals for the Sox.  I wish you were GM.

 

Are you at least hoping for a second round exit? Or is just making the playoffs enough to be a success?

 

You are signing a guy for the length of the contract. Some players will perform great, others will not. Some will have great year 1 others, their exit year.  I am not trying to defend Maggs and his signing.

 

Again, enjoy baseball the way you like, all this performance to contract as compared to other players.

 

Tell me how the White Sox fans today are better off without Colon?

Because, if we had signed Bartolo, we would have had to trade - Konerko, Lee, or your beloved Magglio Ordonez, all which of three are better/worth more than Bartolo's 6.00 ERA.

 

A 6.00 ERA DOESN'T EQUATE TO 12 MILLION A YEAR. Why can't you see this?

 

BTW, who's been most successful, in your opinion, the past five years: The Cubs, the Athletics, the Red Sox, the Rangers.

 

Now, the Rangers signed two guys, Chan Ho Park and A-Rod, to huge contracts. Where are their championships? Ditto with the Red Sox, Manny Ramirez, and their championships? The Cubs, too? I mean, all of these teams spend lots of money, so shouldn't they all be rotating championships, each year?

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Because, if we had signed Bartolo, we would have had to trade - Konerko, Lee, or your beloved Magglio Ordonez, all which of three are better/worth more than Bartolo's 6.00 ERA.

 

A 6.00 ERA DOESN'T EQUATE TO 12 MILLION A YEAR.  Why can't you see this? 

 

BTW, who's been most successful, in your opinion, the past five years:  The Cubs, the Athletics, the Red Sox, the Rangers.

 

Now, the Rangers signed two guys, Chan Ho Park and A-Rod, to huge contracts.  Where are their championships?  Ditto with the Red Sox, Manny Ramirez, and their championships?  The Cubs, too?  I mean, all of these teams spend lots of money, so shouldn't they all be rotating championships, each year?

And how do you know we would have to trade them? Because ownership, who is trying to make a profit, tells you. ;) If they tell you the check is in the mail, would you believe them?

 

As long as Sox fans accept ownership's story and cheer attempts at maybe making the playoffs, that's all we'll have.

 

So we are reduced to cheering, for playoff appearances. We judge success, not on World Series, but getting close. We judge players not on batting average, or wins and loses, but how that batting average compares to their salery. We'll cheer .275 from a guy making $300k, boo the same effort from a millionaire.

 

I hope you all enjoy the games, while reading the players contracts and comparing them to other player's contracts.

 

I know, wait until next year :headshake

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And how do you know we would have to trade them? Because ownership, who is trying to make a profit, tells you.  ;) If they tell you the check is in the mail, would you believe them?

 

As long as Sox fans accept ownership's story and cheer attempts at maybe making the playoffs, that's all we'll have.

 

So we are reduced to cheering, for playoff appearances. We judge success, not on World Series, but getting close. We judge players not on batting average, or wins and loses, but how that batting average compares to their salery. We'll cheer .275 from a guy making $300k, boo the same effort from a millionaire.

 

I hope you all enjoy the games, while reading the players contracts and comparing them to other player's contracts.

 

I know, wait until next year  :headshake

I stand by my statement - you are a dumbass.

 

If you don't like the way this team is run, there is are 29 other teams you can cheer for. No one is forcing/wanting you to root for the White Sox.

 

Still assembling the team with Maggs' 14 million dollar contract? I'm waiting...

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I stand by my statement - you are a dumbass.

 

If you don't like the way this team is run, there is are 29 other teams you can cheer for.  No one is forcing/wanting you to root for the White Sox.

 

Still assembling the team with Maggs' 14 million dollar contract?  I'm waiting...

I'll assemble the same team as you only with a $2,000,000 larger payroll and Maggs.

 

I just noticed you are almost 16 years old. Imagine 26 years from now and you have watched season after season go by without a World Series appearance. Will you still be sucking up to the owners. Cause smart ass, that's what the f*** has been happening since before you were born. The same lame excuses, the same we have no money excuses. This isn't anything new. Ever since Curt Flood we've been hearing the FA game, we can dump this guy and get two more, look at these can't miss prospects, you'll understand in another 20 years.

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I'll assemble the same team as you only with a $2,000,000 larger payroll and Maggs.

 

I just noticed you are 16 years old. Imagine 26 f***ing years from now and you have watched season after season go by without a World Series appearance. Will you still be sucking up to the owners.

Oh so you can predict the future now? Thanks, Cleo... And I'm still waiting on that team. I want to see your starting staff for next year, that will be interesting.

 

29 other teams...

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Oh so you can predict the future now?  Thanks, Cleo...  And I'm still waiting on that team.  I want to see your starting staff for next year, that will be interesting.

 

29 other teams...

The same team as you with a $2,000,000 larger payroll.

 

I guess you can predict the future better. You aren't encumbered with 30+ years of watching this team fail to make the World Series.

 

Tell me would you rather have Maggs or Gloud?

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Mark, E-Lo, Garland, Sho, and Diaz/Rauch/Munoz whichever prospect pans out.

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The same team as you with a $2,000,000 larger payroll.

 

I guess you can predict the future better. You aren't encumbered with 30+ years of watching this team fail to make the World Series.

 

Tell me would you rather have Maggs or Gloud?

Let me put it to you this way, since you aren't comprehending:

 

I'd rather have Reed in right, Freddy Garcia, and two arms out of the bullpen than Maggs at 14 million, which is, in fact, what we could get if we don't give MAggs whatever he wants, which is what you want to do.

 

Like you said - I'm only 16, yet you seem to have no grasp whatsoever of economics.

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wow u all are making his point for him. Maggs is worth it. he is a much better player than what people give him credit. if this were football youd all want him to be the frncise player so y not put that to baseball. hes the franchise player and he deserves that money. and then you build the team with that taken into consideration

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Let me put it to you this way, since you aren't comprehending:

 

I'd rather have Reed in right, Freddy Garcia, and two arms out of the bullpen than Maggs at 14 million, which is, in fact, what we could get if we don't give MAggs whatever he wants, which is what you want to do.

 

Like you said - I'm only 16, yet you seem to have no grasp whatsoever of economics.

Why are you accepting that the owners can only spend $60,000,000? and not $62,000,000? or $65,000,000?

 

You are overly complicating this. Is Maggs better or worse than his replacement? You are looking to drop our #3 hitter, biggest offensive threat, and legitamate All-Star to fill a hole at the #5 starter. We do not need 2 arms in the pen, we are already one of the top 5 pens in the A.L., we need one closer, if Zero or Marte isn't the answer.

 

And you still have a couple weeks before your 16th birthday. Excited about getting your driver's license? The first big road trip I took after getting my license was to Cominsky. I had my license for like 1 week and was in the middle of game day traffic. I cannot believe my car survived :D

 

How many businesses to you think invest money to fund growth? Do you think every business waits to accumulate capitol before growing?

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