When should the Sox start to panic?

[whitesox61382]

This team has overachieved before the past 2 weeks, and it appears like we are seeing the real White Sox over the past 2 weeks, which is not a good sign. The starting pitching has been down right terrible with an ERA just under 8.00 in the last 2 weeks. The bullpen, with the exception of Takatsu, has been terrible with a 6.92 ERA(without Takatsu) over the past 2 weeks. The offense has been inconsistant, scoring 10+ runs 6 times in the last 2 weeks, and scoring 3 or fewer runs 4 times(possible 5 if this score continues) the last 2 weeks. Ozzie has made multiple mistakes, and at this point of the season he should be making this many mistakes. This team is at a crossroads. They are at least 2-3 good players away from being a legit contend, and they would have to morgage a lot of the minor league system to aquire those players(for the 2nd year in a row). Or they can continue with what they have and hope that some youngsters will develop(for once) and try and build for the future.

[danman31]

This team has overachieved before the past 2 weeks, and it appears like we are seeing the real White Sox over the past 2 weeks, which is not a good sign.

How can we be seeing the real White Sox when our best hitter, Maggs, is hurt?

[fathom]

You make some very good points. I honestly feel like the talent level problems is a result of the lack of off-season moves made by the team, as well as the continued inability to produce minor league players that can be productivity in the majors.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

If we do not go on our usual 2nd half tear, then start to worry.

[greg775]

Dan man said it all.

Watching this pathetic game I can only think of ...

WE NEED MAGGS.

[T R U]

Ide be worried... we need to make some roster moves and add what we need because we can win this division... we just need to add in some places

[Guest JimH]

The starting pitching has been about what I expected. On a contending team, Shoeneweis is a #5.

 

The bullpen has been disappointing. Mike Jackson is not the stabilizing force he was brought here to be, and Politte's control issues are maddening. Marte and Shingo have been good, but that's about it.

[CWSGuy406]

Hawk said it best, when he said that we really haven't hit full stride one time this season yet. Our offense has been inconsistent all year, our bullpen has been spotty at best, and our rotation has basically taken a loss each fifth start.

 

I'm starting to worry a bit, but I'm not panickng (sp?). I disagree with you saying that we've overachieved before these past two weeks. It's hard to play without your best player in the lineup.

[whitesox61382]

How can we be seeing the real White Sox when our best hitter, Maggs, is hurt?

danman, no offense, but please think before you post. I didn't mean literally the "real" Sox, it is a figure of speach, and by that I mean as a whole the team is currently playing at the level that many "realistic" fan/analysis thought they would(ie .500 baseball). With that said, injuries are a part of the game. Sure the lose of Maggs has hurt some, but almost every team in the majors has at least lost one KEY contributor for an extended period of time. Furthermore, the production that the Sox have gotten in RF(without Maggs) is similar to that of Maggs.

 

Maggs(in RF) .313/8/34 .896 OPS

All other RF .290/3/17 .806 OPS

 

So the lose of Maggs shouldn't be used as an excuse for the Sox play of late. If you have the ability to look at this team realisticly, than you are certainly worried about the way that this team has played of late. KW we need you to make a couple of good trades if the Sox are serious about contending.

[Jordan4life_2007]

This team needs a shake up. We need a couple quality trades to happen. I think back to the Cubs of last year. They weren't s*** until they FLEECED THE Pirates in aquiring Simon, Lofton, and Ramirez. That's what we need.

[Wedge]

I'd rather see them start to win than panic

[danman31]

danman, no offense, but please think before you post. I didn't mean literally the "real" Sox, it is a figure of speach, and by that I mean as a whole the team is currently playing at the level that many "realistic" fan/analysis thought they would(ie .500 baseball). With that said, injuries are a part of the game. Sure the lose of Maggs has hurt some, but almost every team in the majors has at least lost one KEY contributor for an extended period of time. Furthermore, the production that the Sox have gotten in RF(without Maggs) is similar to that of Maggs.

 

Maggs(in RF) .313/8/34 .896 OPS

All other RF .290/3/17 .806 OPS

This is something you should have posted in the first case. It further makes your point. To say I didn't think is rude and uncalled for because regardless of the fact that the Sox look bad teams slump. When Maggs comes back there is a major boost to the offense. Are you going to tell me the Cubs are now all of a sudden playing better because the rest of the team picked it up, not that Prior and Sosa are back? Sure everyone has injuries, but they still effect teams greatly. That is ignorant for you to think otherwise. Other than the boost Maggs will have in the lineup, granted they will be somewhat slight improvements from what the RFers are bringing, but there will also be a big mental boost.

[SoxAce]

On a contending team, Shoeneweis is a #5.

Hell, on a contending team, Shoey isnt even in the rotation..

[whitesox61382]

Hawk said it best, when he said that we really haven't hit full stride one time this season yet.  Our offense has been inconsistent all year, our bullpen has been spotty at best, and our rotation has basically taken a loss each fifth start.

 

I'm starting to worry a bit, but I'm not panickng (sp?).  I disagree with you saying that we've overachieved before these past two weeks.  It's hard to play without your  best player in the lineup.

Come on, I love Hawk, but he is as optimistic as can be. The fact of the matter is that the Sox have never been a consistant team, and for that matter, very few teams are consistant or "hit their stride". That is simple an optimistic saying to help downplay the struggles of the Sox over the past couple of weeks.

 

The Sox offense has been inconsistant over the past couple of years, with almost the same players, so why should we believe that they will all of a sudden see the light and become consistant? They are in the top 5 in almost every major offensive catagory, so improvement is not likely since there is nowhere to go but down.

 

With the exception of Marte and Takatsu, the bullpen is one of the worst in the majors. It is that simple. There are only 2 guys that can be trusted in close games.

 

The 5th starter has been a big problem, but even the top 4 have been hit hard the past 2 weeks(an ERA well over 6.00). Most "realistic" fans/analysist thought that the top 4 were overachieving(before the past 2 weeks). Buehrle has seen his numbers get worse the last 2 years, and has shown no signs of breaking that trend. Loaiza had a fluke year and was going to come back to reality this year, maybe not back to his high 4.00 ERA days, but nowhere close to last years production. Garland is potential on paper and nothing more. Sox fans have been waiting for him to show that potential for an entire season and he has yet to do so and the clock on him is running short. Schoeneweis came into this season with a career ERA as a starter around 5.25. The fact of the matter is that the Sox rotation(the top 4) is filled with middle and bottom of the rotation starters, and when you add in the 5th starter, you have a very suspect starting rotation from top to bottom with no true front of the rotation starter.

 

They say pitching wins championships, and the Sox simple don't have the pitching. This is why the Sox need a bonafide top of the rotation starter like Garcia, and not some scrub bottom of the rotation starter like Benson. They could also use another quality right handed reliever. I was talking with some friends of mine that are Brewer fans, and they said that Kolb could be avaliable if the Brewers fall out of contention. I would also feel more confident if the Sox aquired Finley to play center and add another lefty bat to the middle of the lineup. Add these 3 players(Garcia, Kolb, and Finley) and the Sox have a legit shot of contending, but the cost in prospects to get all 3 of the above players would be huge. It would deal a big hit to the Sox minor league system and possible hurt the future of this organization, especially if the above players leave after this season. That is why I say that the Sox are at a crossroads. Do they take a chance and empty the farm system, or do they weakly attempt to contend with the current roster and work on building towards the future?

[BrandoFan]

This team has overachieved before the past 2 weeks, and it appears like we are seeing the real White Sox over the past 2 weeks, which is not a good sign. The starting pitching has been down right terrible with an ERA just under 8.00 in the last 2 weeks. The bullpen, with the exception of Takatsu, has been terrible with a 6.92 ERA(without Takatsu) over the past 2 weeks. The offense has been inconsistant, scoring 10+ runs 6 times in the last 2 weeks, and scoring 3 or fewer runs 4 times(possible 5 if this score continues) the last 2 weeks. Ozzie has made multiple mistakes, and at this point of the season he should be making this many mistakes. This team is at a crossroads. They are at least 2-3 good players away from being a legit contend, and they would have to morgage a lot of the minor league system to aquire those players(for the 2nd year in a row). Or they can continue with what they have and hope that some youngsters will develop(for once) and try and build for the future.

Did you really expect Show to out-duel Sabathia? He is a good #5 starter, remember? As soon as Blake hit that ball, Sox were done. Konerko's and Uribe's defense didn't help.

 

This team was totally demoralized by Koch in Oakland and Seattle, just killed the momentum dead. 2003 all over again. Except Twins were a (slightly) above average team in 2003 whereas now they are hopelessly mediocre.

 

When the f*** is Glavine or Garcia coming I wonder? Does Sox management realize that the team is going stagnant without an ace and simply refuses to do anything abuot it, or are they seriously incompetent?

 

My 92 win prediction still stands, but after Cubs inevitably drop us under .500 (with or without Magglio), I am not sure how Sox can reach that number. If I am Allan Baird and I see this crap, I am not sure I sell off.

[Kid Gleason]

Man, every year Hawk says "once we hit our stride, then watch out" and I am still waiting for this team to hit it's stride.

 

Our problem is that we always fill our holes, but by doing so, we create other holes. We never seem to have a full "team" on the field. From year to year this happens.

 

I also have to argue with people about our hitting. Yeah, we got some power on the bats, but we don't have crap for hitters, really. Almost everytime we need the tea, to come through with the hits, they never do. Yeah, we might get a guy to step it up now and then, but there is rarely a consistent hitting from the team. Yeah, I know we just had a HUGE night the other couple of nights, but that is the story, we shell the snot out of the other team when it is not needed, or we miss everything thrown or pop it up.

 

I know I will get ripped for it, but I will put more blame on our hitters and closers than I will place on our starting pitchers. Like last year, when Buhrle got beaten in almost every outing in the beginning of the year, how many of those games did we only score 1 or 2 runs, and the other team only scored one more than us? We just need more solid hitting. Lose some of the "power" guys, and go for the guys that actually put the ball in play.

[Kid Gleason]

This team was totally demoralized by Koch in Oakland and Seattle, just killed the momentum dead. 2003 all over again.  Except Twins were a (slightly) above average team in 2003 whereas now they are hopelessly mediocre.

Man, how long and how much blame can we dump onto Koch??? :puke

[greg775]

I don't think we're gonna win 92.

Can't see it.

[whitesoxin']

Calm down everybody. When Maggs comes back and KW makes a move, look out for the Sox. Don't panic yet.

[BrandoFan]

This team needs a shake up.  We need a couple quality trades to happen.  I think back to the Cubs of last year.  They weren't s*** until they FLEECED THE Pirates in aquiring Simon,  Lofton,  and Ramirez.  That's what we need.

It's true that Cubs didn't achive take-off velocity until they make those brilliant acquisitions (productive AND cost Bobby Hill) acquisitions. They lost their 1st game after the ASB and dropped to 1 game over .500.

 

BUT....

 

Remember, they had Prior and Zambrano pitching out their freaking mind (ERA of under 2.00) for 2 months from mid-July through mid-September. Clement was a 3.50 ERA pitcher in the 2nd half. Wood is Wood. Borowski had a Keith Foulke-esqe run. Plus what they got from Ramirez, Sosa, Lofton, Alou Simon.

 

In short, Cubs were a World Series-caliber team in the second half of 2003.

 

Get Glavine/Garcia and Urbina (for cheap) and you'll the kind of explosive effect it will have on the team.

[CWSGuy406]

Man, how long and how much blame can we dump onto Koch??? :puke

Well, two games on that roadtrip can be blamed on him, plus other games throughout the season that he blew saves.

 

Our team is, simply put, playing awful right now. If you, whitesox61382, think that this is what our team is 'supposed' to play like, you are dead wrong. Kenny will go out and get the necessary parts to make this team competitive.

 

And, IMO, you can get Garcia, Finley, and another reliever without giving up any one of Reed/Anderson/Sweeney.

 

I'll take a look at this after this week is over - if we're struggling then, I will be worried. Until then - I'll relax a bit.

[BrandoFan]

Man, how long and how much blame can we dump onto Koch??? :puke

It's called reality.

 

He is a momentum-killer of legendary proportions.

 

Deal with it.

[greg775]

Brando may be right.

He did sqash some momentum we had.

If you believe in clubhouse chemistry there may be a point

some low payroll teams no longer feel the magic.

I hope Koch didn't do that to us?

We need a feel-good victory or a return of Maggs.

[whitesox61382]

This is something you should have posted in the first case. It further makes your point. To say I didn't think is rude and uncalled for because regardless of the fact that the Sox look bad teams slump. When Maggs comes back there is a major boost to the offense. Are you going to tell me the Cubs are now all of a sudden playing better because the rest of the team picked it up, not that Prior and Sosa are back? Sure everyone has injuries, but they still effect teams greatly. That is ignorant for you to think otherwise. Other than the boost Maggs will have in the lineup, granted they will be somewhat slight improvements from what the RFers are bringing, but there will also be a big mental boost.

Like I said in the beginning, no offense, but most people understand that what I was saying was a figure of speech and you didn't uinderstand that.

 

Furthermore, Sosa and Prior have had almost nothing to do with the way that the Cubs have played of late, and please don't tell me about their "presence" because that is complete BS. The Cubs have won 8 out of their last 9, and Prior has pitched in two of those games. He was very good in 1st(5 IP 0 ER) and below average in the other(5 IP 3 ER). It is also worth noting that Prior pitched the game below this winning stretch and got hammered(the Cubs lost). Sosa has played in 2 games during this winning stretch. He had a very good game in the 1st and a poor game in the 2nd, so believing that Prior and Sosa are the main reason for the Cubs winning of late is simple untrue. Prior has pitched only 1 good game during the stretch and Sosa has played in only 2 games during the stretch. It has been the hot play of some(Maddux, Rusch, Patterson, DLeee) and consistancy(Zambrano, Clement, Alou, Ramirez, Barrett) of others that have fueled the Cubs winning streak, and not Sosa and Prior. Please get the facts straight.

 

Sox fans can hope that Maggs will have a positive influence on the team, but this teams problems are in the pitching staff something that Maggs can't help out all that much.

[Kid Gleason]

Deal with it.

I'll try to do just that. Thanks.