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Official Ortiz/Jones ATL Rumors Thread

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Guest JimH

"Ortiz could be had for Rauch and a lesser prospect, or so it seems"

 

Really?

 

Where is that coming from?

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"Ortiz could be had for Rauch and a lesser prospect, or so it seems"

 

Really?

 

Where is that coming from?

A) From that place where Ortiz is a 4.50-4.75 ERA pitcher in AL (at USCF) the way he's pitching this year.

 

B..) From that place where Altlanta is falling out of contention and might want to do some salary dumpin'

 

C) From that place where the original Ortiz rumor was reported - wasn't it

Rauch + another prospect (Sweeney?) that was discussed before Andrew Jones/Maggs part was added later on?

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Sweeney is a lesser prospect?

 

This is a salary dump for ATL. They're not going to give us Drew instead.

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A) From that place where Ortiz is a 4.50-4.75 ERA pitcher in AL (at USCF) the way he's pitching this year. 

 

B..) From that place where Altlanta is falling out of contention and might want to do some salary dumpin'

 

C) From that place where the original Ortiz rumor was reported - wasn't it

Rauch + another prospect (Sweeney?) that was discussed before Andrew Jones/Maggs part was added later on?

Sweeney isn't a lesser prospect, he is the prospect in the deal, with Rauch being the guy that can come in to Atlanta and immediately help or at least immediately be a part of their staff.

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Regarding Drew - half a season does not make a player great.  His previous major league stats do not suggest that he's anywhere near as good as his hype.

 

True, his salary for this year is attractive.

So JD Drew is overrated now?

 

What's so overrated about him? His career .387 OBP that has been increasing each of the past two years? His career .283 AVG that's also been increasing?

 

JD Drew is exactly what this team needs; a lefty bat who can get on base and hit for fairly high average.

 

 

Look at this: If a trade of Maggs for Ortiz/Jones went down, IMO that would be terrible. We would be trading a .300+, 30HR+, 100+ RBI guy for:

 

Ortiz - Who has a 3.87 ERA with a 1.47 WHIP (Yuck!). Now, add .5 to the ERA to get the AL ERA, so about a 4.37 ERA?

 

and

 

Jones - Who is REALLY overrated offensively, IMHO. Sure, he'll hit 30+ homers, drive in 100+ RBIs, but that's not what this team needs. Generally he doesn't hit for that high of an average (.243 this year), doesn't get on-base all that much either (.336 OBP), and why trade for a guy who we already have (in Aaron Rowand) who's also making what, 7 or 8 million less? I'm not saying Rowand will outperform Jones the rest of the year, but this trade is stupid...

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Sweeney isn't a lesser prospect, he is the prospect in the deal, with Rauch being the guy that can come in to Atlanta and immediately help or at least immediately be a part of their staff.

"lesser prospect" = A-ball

 

I was basically pointing out that it's NOT really Ortiz + Jones for Maggs because Ortiz could be had straight up for prospects, so I don't want to hear how it's fair because it's 2 ML players for 1........

 

I realize that Andruw has a big time talent and may make us all wish we did an Ordonez swap....I just don't like what I see from him this year, truly ugly stuff.

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If you look at it from the Atlanta side they have no interest in dealing with the Sox unless we offer them something like a Maggs for Jones and Ortiz.

 

They dont need nor really want Rauch, so if we are going prospects for Ortiz we are going to have to vastly overpay or throw in Cotts (left handed reliver that they need)

 

Its fun to read these threads and then go read Atlanta fans opinions on the same subject.

 

Some of them still think Jones is the best player in baseball and needs to turn it around, others think that Jones time in Atlanta is up.

 

Regardless, no one there is smoking enough crack to say Rowand is even in the same league as Jones.

 

Jones will probably hit 500 home runs before his career is over.

 

Rowand will be lucky to hit 250.

 

Jones will win 4-5 more GGs

 

Rowand will be lucky to win 1

 

There are only 2 things Rowand will ever arguably do better than Jones, obp and avg. Both things Jones could vastly improve one day with better pitch selection and a better line up to protect him.

 

Jones Scouting From Espn

 

Rowand

 

If the links work, notice how Jones they consider best CF in last 30 years, and talk about 40 hr and 125 rbis.

 

Rowand is a nice player, but its time to realize he is not Jones, Jones is something special who very well could outproduce Beltran for the next 10 years.

 

SB

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Lawrence Holmes on the Score just said that KW did confirm the rumor that the Sox possibly acquiring Ortiz & Andruw Jones, but also said that Mags name hasn't been brought up as part of those rumors. Guess we're in the "wait and see" mode.

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If you look at it from the Atlanta side they have no interest in dealing with the Sox unless we offer them something like a Maggs for Jones and Ortiz.

 

They dont need nor really want Rauch, so if we are going prospects for Ortiz we are going to have to vastly overpay or throw in Cotts (left handed reliver that they need)

 

Its fun to read these threads and then go read Atlanta fans opinions on the same subject.

 

Some of them still think Jones is the best player in baseball and needs to turn it around, others think that Jones time in Atlanta is up.

 

Regardless, no one there is smoking enough crack to say Rowand is even in the same league as Jones.

 

Jones will probably hit 500 home runs before his career is over.

 

Rowand will be lucky to hit 250.

 

Jones will win 4-5 more GGs

 

Rowand will be lucky to win 1

 

There are only 2 things Rowand will ever arguably do better than Jones, obp and avg. Both things Jones could vastly improve one day with better pitch selection and a better line up to protect him.

 

Jones Scouting From Espn

 

Rowand

 

If the links work, notice how Jones they consider best CF in last 30 years, and talk about 40 hr and 125 rbis.

 

Rowand is a nice player, but its time to realize he is not Jones, Jones is something special who very well could outproduce Beltran for the next 10 years.

 

SB

:headbang

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Lawrence Holmes on the Score just said that KW did confirm the rumor that the Sox possibly acquiring Ortiz & Andruw Jones, but also said that Mags name hasn't been brought up as part of those rumors.  Guess we're in the "wait and see" mode.

So your telling me, Maggs wouldn't be the major league player going in this package? So the OF after the deal would be Lee - Jones - Maggs?

 

I'd say Lee or Konerko would have to be the guys a part of it then.

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Lawrence Holmes on the Score just said that KW did confirm the rumor that the Sox possibly acquiring Ortiz & Andruw Jones, but also said that Mags name hasn't been brought up as part of those rumors.  Guess we're in the "wait and see" mode.

WTF???

 

This is some crazy s***!

 

It has to be Maggs, who else could help Atlanta right off the bat that they would be interested in?

 

Not to mention the fact that Kenny also said earlier in June that he wants to get another starter without giving up someone on the Major League Roster.....

 

CWSOX45

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Seriously, if Atlanta is so hell-bent on dumping Jones's salary, couldn't they be interested in Konerko (and good prospects, naturally) - they save 4 Mill this year, 4 Mill next year and 13 Mill in 2006 and 2007 each as well as get good OF and pitching prospects?

 

I highly doubt they even consider it, but you never know with the way Kong is mashing the ball this year.

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Lawrence Holmes on the Score just said that KW did confirm the rumor that the Sox possibly acquiring Ortiz & Andruw Jones, but also said that Mags name hasn't been brought up as part of those rumors.  Guess we're in the "wait and see" mode.

That's the best news I've heard in this thread, because Maggs for Jones/Ortiz is terrible...

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So your telling me, Maggs wouldn't be the major league player going in this package?  So the OF after the deal would be Lee - Jones - Maggs?

 

I'd say Lee or Konerko would have to be the guys a part of it then.

Personally, with Jones & Ortiz as part of this deal, I couldn't think of anyone they would want besides Mags. What I would question is, what would be the status of JD Drew? Would the Braves move him to CF? Or would they trust Mags to handle CF the rest of the way?

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Well there is a scenario, where the White Sox would take on money and could trade for Jones and Ortiz.

 

Braves need a 1b bad, we send Konerko, Rauch, Borch or Reed for Ortiz and Jones.

 

The Sox would take on a ton of payroll, but what else would the Braves be looking for?

 

Also Braves are on TBS right now if you would like to catch a glimpse at Jones.

 

(Lol Brando posted the same Konerko idea)

 

SB

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If you look at it from the Atlanta side they have no interest in dealing with the Sox unless we offer them something like a Maggs for Jones and Ortiz.

 

They dont need nor really want Rauch, so if we are going prospects for Ortiz we are going to have to vastly overpay or throw in Cotts (left handed reliver that they need)

 

Its fun to read these threads and then go read Atlanta fans opinions on the same subject.

 

Some of them still think Jones is the best player in baseball and needs to turn it around, others think that Jones time in Atlanta is up.

 

Regardless, no one there is smoking enough crack to say Rowand is even in the same league as Jones.

 

Jones will probably hit 500 home runs before his career is over.

 

Rowand will be lucky to hit 250.

 

Jones will win 4-5 more GGs

 

Rowand will be lucky to win 1

 

There are only 2 things Rowand will ever arguably do better than Jones, obp and avg. Both things Jones could vastly improve one day with better pitch selection and a better line up to protect him.

 

Jones Scouting From Espn

 

Rowand

 

If the links work, notice how Jones they consider best CF in last 30 years, and talk about 40 hr and 125 rbis.

 

Rowand is a nice player, but its time to realize he is not Jones, Jones is something special who very well could outproduce Beltran for the next 10 years.

 

SB

But we don't NEED another guy who's going to hit a lot of homeruns. We need guys who can get on base for Thomas, Lee, Maggs, and Konerko - not another big HR guy.

 

I'm not saying ROwand is better than Jones. I'm saying that right now, Jones is doing worse than Rowand. But Rowand is an above average outfielder, and like Brando said, if A-Row was given the chance to be the everyday CFer, I think he very well could turn into a GGer.

 

I like Jones glove. I like his ability to drive in runs. I like his ability to hit HRs. I dislike his contract, I dislike his low average, I dislike his low OBP.

 

Jones isn't worth the 13 million he will recieve at the backend of his contract.

 

If Maggs isn't included, and we can get Jones/Ortiz for Borchard/Rauch and one or two other prospects, then go for it. But not for Maggs...

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So JD Drew is overrated now?

 

What's so overrated about him?  His career .387 OBP that has been increasing each of the past two years?  His career .283 AVG that's also been increasing?

 

JD Drew is exactly what this team needs; a lefty bat who can get on base and hit for fairly high average.

I still think Drew is overrated, but clearly several others really like him. That's cool, but IMO, his stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6117) don't compare favorably with other 28-year old outfielders. I'm biased because I have always considered him overrated.

 

Living in Peoria, a city overrun with Cardinals fans, I heard so much for years about how great a player he was/is. But when he was traded, I didn't talk to many Cardinal fans who were very disappointed. They were sick of waiting for him to reach his potential and for him to play a full season.

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Well there is a scenario, where the White Sox would take on money and could trade for Jones and Ortiz.

 

Braves need a 1b bad, we send Konerko, Rauch, Borch or Reed for Ortiz and Jones.

 

The Sox would take on a ton of payroll, but what else would the Braves be looking for?

 

Also Braves are on TBS right now if you would like to catch a glimpse at Jones.

 

(Lol Brando posted the same Konerko idea)

 

SB

:lolhitting

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With Konerko playing the way he is, do we really want to deal him. He is a guy that will be on the Sox again next year while Maggs will be audios.

 

However, having Maggs is the better player and I do recognize that. I just can't possibly see the Sox add, what would be probably 8 mill in payroll (thats about whats remaining this year) and then stlll not address the need of adding a reliever or two, which will add a little more money.

 

Heck, whose to say the Braves wouldn't do a deal for Rauch, Sweeney, and an ace for the two of them if they are so hell bent on dumping Jones salary. Personally, I think either Maggs is part of the deal or he isn't, I don't see the Sox keeping both Maggs and Jones and if they do, it would be amazing for this year, but it would all but guarantee Maggs depature from the South Side at the end of the season.

 

I love Andruw Jones and I want him playing CF for the Sox.

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Maggs is leaving next year, Jones would be a replacement for Maggs.

 

We lose Maggs for 3 months this season, and then gain 3 years of Andruw Jones.

 

Otherwise we are going to get 2 draft picks.

 

Its not like Maggs is signed long term, or has said hes going to sign.

 

This is purely, Maggs is in his walk year, we need to get something before he goes.

 

SB

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Maggs is leaving next year, Jones would be a replacement for Maggs.

 

We lose Maggs for 3 months this season, and then gain 3 years of Andruw Jones.

 

Otherwise we are going to get 2 draft picks.

 

Its not like Maggs is signed long term, or has said hes going to sign.

 

This is purely, Maggs is in his walk year, we need to get something before he goes.

 

SB

I fully agree and Jones is a good long term solution, plus him and Ortiz make the team better now, imo.

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Maggs is leaving next year, Jones would be a replacement for Maggs.

 

We lose Maggs for 3 months this season, and then gain 3 years of Andruw Jones.

 

Otherwise we are going to get 2 draft picks.

 

Its not like Maggs is signed long term, or has said hes going to sign.

 

This is purely, Maggs is in his walk year, we need to get something before he goes.

 

SB

Jones is nowhere near as good as Maggs at the plate...

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I like Jones glove. I like his ability to drive in runs

 

Let's be honest here - when you hit 270 w. RO and RISP (inclduing only .230 with 2 outs), and a horrific .200 in 'Close and Late' situations - as he's done in 2001-2003 span - you shouldn't be considered a premiere run producer.

 

See Griffey's 1997-1998.....Now THAT is a how a CF produces runs. :headbang :lol:

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Jones is nowhere near as good as Maggs at the plate...

I'd agree with that. He won't hit for the avg or get the OBP that Maggs can. However, Maggs is nothing like Jones when it comes to saving hits and runs (no one is). I can also say that I think Jones has more power then Maggs and wlil drive in similar amounts of runs. Heck, you could always move Jones to the 2 hole (he is a tremendous fastball hitter with good speed) and then let him see tons of fastballs, which he will see with Thomas hitting in the 3 hole. The only big concern is if Lee or Konerko or Jones all are slumping, then Thomas isn't going to have much protection in the lineup.

 

The Sox also get a guy that will be in the SouthSide a few more years and is JUST ENTERING his prime. They also get a pretty good pitcher, who ya, may have a 4.2 ERA or so in the southside, but that doesn't mean he won't win. The Sox are scoring runs and in the AL that is an above average ERA. He also has big game experience and is more then capable of shutting down a good ballclub.

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