Dick Allen Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Reed doesn't have power...this is yet again, a case of people repeating stuff they've "heard". Fact is, Reed batted 400 last season, and whats he at this year...now that people have figured out how to pitch to him in the MINORS...what, .280 or something?! Oh yeah, and he has almost NO power. Just checked, Reed is batting .273 with 8HR in 264AB...yeah, tons and tons of power and contact. The only thing in this trade I'll miss is Olivo, and even then...he platooned as the Sox #9 (AKA WORST hitter on the team) batter with Alomar AND Burke. -y2 Reed has had a bad wrist almost all year. He is potentially a great hitter. Baseball Prospectus really loves him at least at the beginning of this year. I believe they said his projected numbers using a PECOTA system they use were like Don Mattingly and Tony Gwynn. They thought at the very least he was Rusty Greer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Reed doesn't have power...this is yet again, a case of people repeating stuff they've "heard". Fact is, Reed batted 400 last season, and whats he at this year...now that people have figured out how to pitch to him in the MINORS...what, .280 or something?! Oh yeah, and he has almost NO power. Just checked, Reed is batting .273 with 8HR in 264AB...yeah, tons and tons of power and contact. The only thing in this trade I'll miss is Olivo, and even then...he platooned as the Sox #9 (AKA WORST hitter on the team) batter with Alomar AND Burke. -y2 That's not fair. Reed has been injured this year. But I really like your avatar. I have that magazine, in addition to all of the other Becketts, Tuff Stuff, Sports Card Trader, etc. I've kept them all in mint condition since the early nineties. Close to 10 Becketts alone with Frank on the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Wow what a big day, biggest one so far this year easily, beat the Cubs and make the major trade. A lot of you were complaining when is KW goin to make a deal, when are we goin to get another starter yada, yada, yada. Miggy Olivo, I think he is not the stud evey1 think he is. He can't hit RHP pitching very well, and still can't call a game well either. That said, I think he is the perfect type of catcher for Seattle in Safeco Field with his speed. Jeremy Reed, wow now that was a shock. I feel sorry for the guy, he's been injured with his wrists and is only hitting .280 in Charlotte, and his value has dropped. Be hard to see where he plays for Seattle long term though, unless they trade Randy Winn. Ben Davis, well I hope Greg Walker can fix him. He's got a great arm behind the plate and is a switch hitter. Uribe never hit too well in Colorado and Walker did a good job on him, hopefully he can do the same with Davis, and that will be a major boost to this trade. Freddy Garcia, well KW says he can sign him long - term. Is he worth 40 million over 4 years though? I guarantee you the Yankees will be goin afta him in FA if he doesn't resign before then. Of course we'll get the 2 draft picks if he leaves anyways. Also he's a flyball pitcher, which doesn't bode well for him at the Cell, where there's been an average of more than 3 home runs than usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Reed has had a bad wrist almost all year. He is potentially a great hitter. Baseball Prospectus really loves him at least at the beginning of this year. I believe they said his projected numbers using a PECOTA system they use were like Don Mattingly and Tony Gwynn. They thought at the very least he was Rusty Greer. Bad wrist or not, if the Minor league pitchers can figured him out, the ML pitchers SURE AS HELL CAN. ML pitchers absolutly TOASTED him in spring training when they werent even trying. He batted .400+ last year, and has hovered around .270 all this year, and if his wrist is hurt, perhaps he should rehab it rather than using it as an excuse. People put too much stock in minor league players. How many "cant miss stars" have we had miss on us the past few years. Let's see, oh thats right BOTH of our cant miss guys missed. Borchard AND Rauch. Sign Garcia long-term, which I think the Sox will. I'll miss Olivo as much as the next guy, I liked him...BUT...facts are facts, the Sox did NOT need him, he has a great arm, but still lacks defensive skills. The last thing we need to worry about is offense...if we should have learned anything the past three years, it's that offense does not win championships...hell, it doesn't even bring you into the playoffs. Pitching does. Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, Garcia, (Ortiz?!) Diaz sounds a TON better than Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, Ortiz AND Rauch to me. I can stand the loss of Olivo and a guy who had one good year for Garcia. NOW...sign him to a 4 year deal. -y2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Im assuming your new name will be JBorchardFan And you probably should switch reeds pic in your sig with Borchards Never. Like I said before, I'm not a fan of Borchard, and I like grinder-type players. (ie. Reed, Graffy, Gload etc..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Guys, this is the first deal. If you know KW, there are more to come. By the way, how you doin' Rector, long time no hear from. Well, Sox fans, you got your pitcher. It was not expected to arrive for nothing, and it didn't. Good catchers are hard to find, but here is the thing, Ben Davis can't hit but he's a very good defensive catcher and the Mariner staff absolutely loved him. The Mariners insisted he be included in last winter's deal with San Diego. He is a switch hitter, which essentially matters not if you can't hit much. So we shouldn't expect much offense from Ben Davis. We know what we're getting with Garcia. If the Sox make the playoffs, you now have your #1 starter. The chances of re-signing him? Questionable, and I'll leave it at that. Just because he's a runnin' buddy of Ozzie in Venezuela doesn't mean a hill of beans with these guys when it comes to paycheck time. Reed ... yes, it hurts. Frankly, I'd have rather traded Borch, but if you're Seattle who do you want? The good news here is, at least it wasn't Anderson. He is coming on strong, and coming fast. The Sox got what they wanted, and had to give up a lot. It is a fair trade for both teams IMO, given the circumstances of the two teams at present. I wish they'd given up less, but the world doesn't work that way unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 People put too much stock in minor league players. Well, considering that all hall of famers in the history of baseball were minor league players at one point, I don't see how that is a bad thing. Speculation is what makes baseball so interesting. Hell yeah people put too much stock in minor league players, and rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasqua's Mailman Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'll take this trade. If the Sox wanted to anything this season they NEEDED a front-line starter. Garcia was the best available and their is a fairly decent chance that they can re-sign him. I hate to lose Olivo but you need to give something to get something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Look I'm not saying the 24th best part-time hitter in the AL this year is ready to be an all-star, but some of you are grossly underselling his D contribution. He does have a quick release & strong arm. That's the main reason why KW wanted him years ago. Now there is doubt on his game calling skills but I don't think it's as bad as some of you have made it out to be. But it's very hard to be able to play at the level he has with part-time ab's. As the M posters stated he will be their starting C for yrs to come at a low price. You're likely undercutting Reed. Injuries matter. Look at the numbers Jones put up in 2003 with a strained back muscle. He played through the pain & still had almost 300 TB's. Reed's drop from 400 to 280 is more to do with the injury than anything else. Reed's power potential is based on those who have evaluated his swing. The bat speed & fluid motion project power. But you're right in assessing White Sox prospects. Over time they have proven to be more over-rated than anything else. With Morse there is the possibility of a power hitting IF. I know what the M fan said but I also know what the SOX have said & he was being projected as the future SS. But here's the reality: we play the game 1 year at a time. You can not expect to win the division with MB, EL, JG, JR, FD. The 5th starter position on this team has been abysmal for years & there was no way the SOX were going to compete with Minn with 2 5th starters. When SS went down the urgency went up. With that being said Garcia means more to the SOX RIGHT now than Olivo, Reed, & Morse. Way more. That's how you should view this trade. KW knows the attendance will bottom out if the SOX don't contend ALL year round. It's a difference of at least 300-400K fans. That makes a difference. If they win the div then there are a few sold post-season games to boot. That's why this trade is a no-brainer for the SOX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Changed the sig. Might have more changes on the way too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 This might not help the clubhouse also. Olivo was very popular especially with the chemistry. He was the "Crazy Man" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Off the top of my head he's a switch hitter. 99% sure he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Changed the sig. Might have more changes on the way too.. If the Sox make the playoffs BECAUSE of Garcia, will you change your sig again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Changed the sig. Might have more changes on the way too.. No he won't. Kenny Williams manages this team one year at a time. If getting Garcia means the difference between contending for the division or dropping behind the Indians this is a no-brainer trade. Well he does so it's a no-brainer. The only think I don't like about the trade is that Kenny should have pkg'd with the ATL trade. Now Ortiz stock just went up with Garcia out of the running. Now we're likely to pay more to get Ortiz. But if ATL wasn't ready or Kenny needed to give more time for Maggs to decide I can understand. He needed Garcia this week to face the Twins & the cub. Timing could not have been better for the Garcia trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Ben Davis was considered a stud catching prospect a few years ago when he came up in the Padres organization. He's alwasy been a very impressive defensive catcher who has never been able to hit. The Pads gambled and dealt him to the Mariners for Brett Tomko (i think thats one of the guys they got) in what was a decent size deal. Actually it was more the Mariners that gambled. The Mariners thought he'd turn into a star catcher, but he never did. He still has some upside though and is very good behind the plate. Pretty sure Cirillo was part of that deal aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Don't be mad, it's the truth.. His analysis of MO is a little off. He doesn't note the considerable power he has shown this season. And I think his Defense has been overrated here, especially this season. But overall, this trade is a loss for the sox, unless they can do two things: Sign Garcia long-term, or win a WS. I am mad BECAUSE it is the truth. The "what-ifs" are swirling in my skull. What could have been. This was a high price to pay. Hopefully, not too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Wow! A few hours after the Garcia trade & a new rumor surfaces. Jason Kendall any one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 We panicked and overpaid. Good GMs trade horses*** prospects to teams willing to deal a Garcia. We traded Olivo and Reed. Ben Davis is pure horses*** by the way. That guy is hopeless. Let's see if we can win with no catcher, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 We panicked and overpaid. Good GMs trade horses*** prospects to teams willing to deal a Garcia. What are you smoking? You have to give something to get something. A GM that gets horses*** prospects for someone like Garcia will soon be an unemployed GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Wow! A few hours after the Garcia trade & a new rumor surfaces. Jason Kendall any one? Yeah, if they pay us ALOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I think if davis is a good defensive catcher and has a good arm im very happy. I loved miggy but we needed garcia more. GOOD LUCK MIGUEL. SOX PRIDE WAY TO BEAT THE CUBS TODAY!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 The Yankees we're offering their stud catching prospect and a good infielder as well. The point is that if we wanted Garcia we had to equal the Yanks in terms of talent. I love the trade, and I'm sure Kenny has another deal in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 No he won't. Kenny Williams manages this team one year at a time. If getting Garcia means the difference between contending for the division or dropping behind the Indians this is a no-brainer trade. Well he does so it's a no-brainer. The only think I don't like about the trade is that Kenny should have pkg'd with the ATL trade. Now Ortiz stock just went up with Garcia out of the running. Now we're likely to pay more to get Ortiz. But if ATL wasn't ready or Kenny needed to give more time for Maggs to decide I can understand. He needed Garcia this week to face the Twins & the cub. Timing could not have been better for the Garcia trade. FWIW, I was talking about changing my name from "J.Reedfan8" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Wow! A few hours after the Garcia trade & a new rumor surfaces. Jason Kendall any one? Depends how much the Pirates are willing to absorb of his long contract. Hits over .300 though, and would be a perfect #2 hitter for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 The Yankees we're offering their stud catching prospect and a good infielder as well. The point is that if we wanted Garcia we had to equal the Yanks in terms of talent. I love the trade, and I'm sure Kenny has another deal in the works. The yankees dont give a s*** about their prospects though. Plus, they really over-hype theirs as well. I doubt Navarro will be even as close as a good player Olivo is going to be. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.