beck72 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I'd say a trade with the D-backs for Johnson could start with either Lee or Garland as the center of the trade, but certainly not both. Both have a lot of value. The acquisition of RJ, though, would then make the other expendable. [Lee's salary would be too big w/ RJ; and Jon would be an expensive 5th starter--yet both have trade value to restock the farm system] Both Jon and Carlos could bring a good return for minor leaguers close to being ready for the bigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I agree 100% If Garland is in this trade it makes no sense cause were right back where we started without a proven #5 guy I'd trade a #5 SP [making $3 + million] for an ace like RJ any day of the week. Even if it's for one year, maybe two. The sox could get an innings eater for about $1 mill [which is what Garland is]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I would rather if lee was gone we took a chance on guys like Dye, Or Juan Gone cause they will be cheap and if their healthy would put up huge numbers here at the cell. No, no, no. Those guys are slow and old. The sox already have a slow old man for RF in Everett. [but I agree Everett should have a decent yr, Not huge though] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I didn't see anyone hit on the topic, so I will There are a reasons the package would start with Lee and Garland and not Konerko and Garland... First of all, Arizona really has no need for a 1Bman. All signs indicate that there is a very good chance that Richie Sexson will resign with the DBacks, and there would be no room for Konerko on the team. Secondly, and probably more importantly...if you had to rebuild a team and that meant to trade potentially the most dominant pitcher of the past decade or so, would you want to build your team around Paul Konerko, a player with less talent and is not as good all around, or Carlos Lee, a player who has all kinds of talent and is still getting better? I would take Lee, but maybe that's just me. If Konerko is in the deal, that means two things are probably true... Richie Sexson is no longer a DBack, and that one of Anderson, Sweeney, and McCarthy will be gone(or a huge package of lesser prospects/players, probably 3 or 4 of Diaz, Munoz, Baj, Adkins, Cotts, Borchard, Spidale, Valdez, Harris). If you want to get RJ, you better as hell make sure you can get all the holes filled, because trading for RJ will create atleast one new hole, and potentially more. That's something you have to deal with if you want to get one of the best pitcher's in the league, even if he's 41 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 What if we dump Konerko for prospects and send them to AZ along with Garland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 What if we dump Konerko for prospects and send them to AZ along with Garland? I'm not sure Arizona will do that. From what I remember/hear, they want more established players then they do prospects, since they got burned in not doing that last year with Schilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Ok, if were going to give up Garland and Lee couldn't the Sox get a younger ace? For example Mark Mulder, etc, since Oakland has their entire big 3 on the block (although they will only trade one of them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 You guys just don't get it. We can't afford to take on all of Johnson's contract and still remain competitive which is what we will have to do. Garland will win us at least 12 games for 3 Mil and a free agent could get us 15 wins at half the cost. What your really doing is giving away Garland in order to replace him with Grilli and dooming us to 3rd place for the next 2 years. Especially if Johnson get hurts then we are really screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 You guys just don't get it. We can't afford to take on all of Johnson's contract and still remain competitive which is what we will have to do. Garland will win us at least 12 games for 3 Mil and a free agent could get us 15 wins at half the cost. What your really doing is giving away Garland in order to replace him with Grilli and dooming us to 3rd place for the next 2 years. Especially if Johnson get hurts then we are really screwed. Jeckle, I wanna know how you know that RJ will only win 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 You guys just don't get it. We can't afford to take on all of Johnson's contract and still remain competitive which is what we will have to do. Garland will win us at least 12 games for 3 Mil and a free agent could get us 15 wins at half the cost. What your really doing is giving away Garland in order to replace him with Grilli and dooming us to 3rd place for the next 2 years. Especially if Johnson get hurts then we are really screwed. Who says the Sox are going to sign a good FA pitcher? I don't know whom of the FA pitchers would sign with the Sox for a 2 year deal. We can't afford to sign a FA to a 3 year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 If Randy suits up for the White Sox next spring..I'll eat my hat. You guys can hold me to it. However, if KW were to offer Lee AND Garland for RJ, how could they refuse. They are getting a proven outfielder and a young arm with *potential*. Now, don't get me wrong...I think Garland has nothing between the ears and he has reached his apex, but the kid is young and relatively inexpensive. He's a solid number 5, a reach at a solid number 4 starter; that is all he is...that is all he will ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 What if we dump Konerko for prospects and send them to AZ along with Garland? DUMP Konerko?! Why would you "dump" a player who hit 41 homers and drove in 117 runs? Please people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 You guys just don't get it. We can't afford to take on all of Johnson's contract and still remain competitive which is what we will have to do. Garland will win us at least 12 games for 3 Mil and a free agent could get us 15 wins at half the cost. What your really doing is giving away Garland in order to replace him with Grilli and dooming us to 3rd place for the next 2 years. Especially if Johnson get hurts then we are really screwed. The odds we win the series with a rotation of RJ-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-who knows are way better then us winning the series with Garcia-Buehrle-Perez/whoever-Contreras-Garland. And it is possible to have a competitive team with RJ on the team. It's not as hard as you think either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 DUMP Konerko?! Why would you "dump" a player who hit 41 homers and drove in 117 runs? Please people! Because Arizona may have no need for Konerko, and the prospects we acquired for Konerko would be apart of the package for RJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Ok, if were going to give up Garland and Lee couldn't the Sox get a younger ace? For example Mark Mulder, etc, since Oakland has their entire big 3 on the block (although they will only trade one of them). Very good point. A Lee and Garland trade very well could land Mulder +. [ I think Hudson and Zito would take less than those two to get a deal]. I wouldn't trade them just for RJ. [one or the other could be a basic starting point for a deal yes, but not both]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Well we play 81 games here at home but thats not my point here. Konerko is the leader of this team without doubt trading your only real leader is not a good statement to make regardless of what you get in return. Would I like to have Randy sure who wouldnt but for the price no thanks. Also its alot easier to replace a 290 hitting 30 homer OF'er then a 40 Homer 100 RBI first basemen. I know alot of you seem to be real high on Gload and all but there is no way I replace PK with him you wanna talk about a major drop off look at that for a second and think about it. Maggs is gone, Thomas who the hell knows what to expect from him, carlos lee will do his norm but the rest of the lineup is suspect you cant afford to trade PK and play Gload in his place. Lee on the other hand has a better trade market then PK and he is easily replaced rather by Carl or another FA OF'er the production lee puts up really isnt that hard to find. OF'er are a dime a dozen. We can replace Lee production with no problem but can we replace PK leadership as easy??? I like Konerko and all, but where exactly has Konerko 'led' us...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 You guys just don't get it. We can't afford to take on all of Johnson's contract and still remain competitive which is what we will have to do. Garland will win us at least 12 games for 3 Mil and a free agent could get us 15 wins at half the cost. What your really doing is giving away Garland in order to replace him with Grilli and dooming us to 3rd place for the next 2 years. Especially if Johnson get hurts then we are really screwed. You discount any of the sox minor league pitchers like B-Mac or Honel being better than Garland in one or two years. Any FA signing who could potentially give us 15 wins would also be signed for 3+ yrs. that would give the sox 4 SP's who are signed for 2+ yrs to big contracts. How likely is it that one of those would get injured, and the sox wouldn't have the money to fill the hole. RJ's money would be off the books in 1 yr, time enough for a guy like Hudson or Mulder to be available, and have B-mac or Honel just about ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I'm really iffy on trading Lee, even if it were for the Big Unit. I really believe that Lee is this close (really close) to having, just an awesome year -- I'm talking .330, 35 HRs, 125+ RBIs. Like witesoxfan said, he's our best all-around player on the team. Konerko and Garland for Johnson -- sure. Lee and Garland for Johnson... Meh... I don't like it that much. Just because, IMHO, everyday players, during the course of a season, help you get to the playoffs more than a guy that plays once every five games does. Once you get to the playoffs, that's where Johnson makes his big bucks. But ya gotta get there first, and it ain't gonna happen with a s***ty lineup. I'm just questioning how we would plan on replacing the 60+ HRs, 200+ RBIs that we're losing from Maggs and Lee... (Projecting both out to be right around 30 homers, 100 RBIs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I'm really iffy on trading Lee, even if it were for the Big Unit. I really believe that Lee is this close (really close) to having, just an awesome year -- I'm talking .330, 35 HRs, 125+ RBIs. Like witesoxfan said, he's our best all-around player on the team. Konerko and Garland for Johnson -- sure. Lee and Garland for Johnson... Meh... I don't like it that much. Just because, IMHO, everyday players, during the course of a season, help you get to the playoffs more than a guy that plays once every five games does. Once you get to the playoffs, that's where Johnson makes his big bucks. But ya gotta get there first, and it ain't gonna happen with a s***ty lineup. I'm just questioning how we would plan on replacing the 60+ HRs, 200+ RBIs that we're losing from Maggs and Lee... (Projecting both out to be right around 30 homers, 100 RBIs) Didn't PK hit 40+ HR's and 110+ RBI's, both more than Lee? One of Lee or Pk should be gone in 2005 to shore up pitching and other holes in the lineup. IMO, it's Lee because I question [due to KW's and Ozzie's comments about Lee not being 'a complete player', and that Lee 'knows what he needs to work on'] Lee's heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I'd make the deal as long as AZ throws in a decent prospect. We lost last season without Maggs and without Hurt. But the problem wasn't the offense, it was the pitching. If you replace a rotation of Buehrle, Loaiza, Schoe, Garland, ? with Big Unit, Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, ?...you're going to win a s***load of games...and the loss of Carlos Lee will not change that. All season we've discussed the need to move away from the power game, now the opportunity arises and everyone chickens out. There are cheap OFs out there that can provide a decent OBP who will instantly become more powerful by playing 81 games at the Cell. Replacing CLee could easily improve the OF defense/range as well. With the potential signing of Vizquel, our IF defense will be strong as well. When's the last time we had a defensively talented team? When's the last time we had a staff with three #1 pitchers? How many power hitters or offensive juggernauts do the Twins have? What about Oakland? We've tried the offensive approach to winning, and we've seen that, for whatever reason, it just doesn't work for the White Sox. I'm ready to see a new brand of ball and see the team shaped in the mold of their manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Replacing CLee could easily improve the OF defense/range as well. I'll let qwerty take this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Very good point. A Lee and Garland trade very well could land Mulder +. [ I think Hudson and Zito would take less than those two to get a deal]. I wouldn't trade them just for RJ. [one or the other could be a basic starting point for a deal yes, but not both]. Why do you think hudson and zito will b ethe cheapest to get in a trade? They have both been better than mulder in their careers. Zito is also the youngest out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Why do you think hudson and zito will b ethe cheapest to get in a trade? They have both been betetr than mulder in their careers. Zito is also the youngest out of them. Cause Mulder is a Spartan so that means he's super. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Forget about Johnson and find a way to get Hudson or Mulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I Replacing CLee could easily improve the OF defense/range as well. Unless we get carl crawford, raul ibanez, jose guillen, larry bigbie our defense in left field will not be upgraded. These were the only other left fielders that were better at range factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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