bjm676 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 South Side change machine Sox GM Williams carries on fight for 'ultimate prize' You could build an All-Star team, literally, around the revolving door of talent that is in place or has passed through during Ken Williams' four-year reign as White Sox general manager. Consider the pitchers: Bartolo Colon, David Wells, Esteban Loaiza, Billy Koch, Keith Foulke, Tom Gordon, Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez and Freddy Garcia. And the position players: Jose Canseco, Ray Durham, Magglio Ordonez, Sandy Alomar Jr., Roberto Alomar, Kenny Lofton, Royce Clayton, Carl Everett, Carlos Lee, Jermaine Dye and A.J. Pierzynski. And the rumors: Randy Johnson, Omar Vizquel, Jason Kendall, Darin Erstad and Carlos Beltran. "It hasn't been boring," Williams says on the verge of this weekend's SoxFest at the Hyatt Regency Chicago. Indeed. The reason Williams keeps searching for the right combination is because "we haven't got the ultimate prize yet." The ultimate prize? Heck, Williams' teams haven't even been to the first round of the playoffs yet, much less the World Series. That brings us to his latest tinkering, potentially the most potent project of them all. During the entire final month of last season, Williams and manager Ozzie Guillen insisted they would rebuild their power team into one based on pitching, speed and defense. "But looking good on paper doesn't mean a lot," Williams admits. The off-season plans got off to an iffy start when the player they wanted to build around, potential leadoff man and veteran shortstop Vizquel, wound up in San Francisco. Then catcher Jason Kendall went from Pittsburgh to Oakland instead of Chicago. And Randy Johnson said he didn't want to pitch for the White Sox and neither did Javier Vazquez. But Williams pressed on, adding base-stealing threat Scott Podsednik in center field while eliminating—wisely or not, given that U.S. Cellular Field has become a home-run haven—the power of Ordonez and Carlos Lee. He also added Pierzynski's bat and Hernandez's arm. "Do we have the dream team we envisioned at the end of last season? No, we do not," Williams said. "But we were probably living in the stars. … "I have big dreams and you cannot help but have your mind swayed by the best players in the game. And then you work back into reality." And deal with the $70 million budget given him, which is a third of what the Yankees spend but the most of any AL Central team. So what has Williams put together? "This team is a lot different [than the last three]," he said. "Where it will take us, I don't know. I thought the last three would take us to the promised land. I've learned all you can do is put together the best club you can and let the players play." What the White Sox have is one of their strongest top-to-bottom pitching staffs in recent memory. Certainly, it's one of their deepest. The starters are Mark Buehrle, Garcia, Jose Contreras, Hernandez and Jon Garland, all capable of being among league leaders in innings. The bullpen, still anchored by Shingo Takatsu, was bolstered with the additions of Dustin Hermanson, who closed for the Giants last season, and Luis Vizcaino. "I'd rather keep it quiet," Williams says, "but I think we have one of the better staffs around." It is hard to keep anything quiet in baseball. In fact, one opposing assistant GM says the White Sox have "one of the top three or four" pitching staffs in the American League. Of course, there are questions. One of them is the health of designated hitter Frank Thomas, who was on his way to another MVP-type season before his latest foot injury. "What I've tried to do is build the club in case [Thomas] isn't ready," Williams said. Another is the health and age of Hernandez and Contreras, Cuban refugees who are listed as 35 and 33 respectively. But each could be older, much older. "I have a rule, nobody on the team is older than me," the 40-year-old Williams said with a laugh. Through his four seasons, Williams has changed plenty of personnel. "We've been consistent with our plan, although it may not seem that way," he said. He contends he really does want stability, pointing to Thomas, Paul Konerko, Buehrle and Garland, and saying he honestly wanted to keep Ordonez before the falling out of the last few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaiza21 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I'm really gonna miss Mags. He could run well, hit well, and he wasn't selfish. Have fun on the Cubs Magglio . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro1983hat Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(Loaiza21 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 10:30 AM) I'm really gonna miss Mags. He could run well, hit well, and he wasn't selfish. Have fun on the Cubs Magglio . True, Maggs will be missed, but we would all be killing KW if he signed him without having a doctor examine him. Especially if he got hurt midway through the season. I feel guardedly positive about the season and I am looking forward to SoxFest. Oh God, I am starting to sound like a Cub fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Kenny is no John Schuerholz (sp?), but I forgot how young he is and he is definitely learning. I will definitely give him that. And, except for the payroll issue, it looks like he has free reign and doesn't have to check-in all the time (Brian Cashman, anyone), so he and Ozzie can put together "their team." If it doesn't work this time, maybe it's time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Kenny finally realized that he couldn't keep the same kind of team out there for another year, they achieved nothing. He changed it up, changed the tempo, changed the entire face of this team. Will it work? Maybe.... Is he doing his job well? Hell yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Kenny finally realized that he couldn't keep the same kind of team out there for another year, they achieved nothing. He changed it up, changed the tempo, changed the entire face of this team. Will it work? Maybe.... Is he doing his job well? Hell yes. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 2001- failed..keep same team 2002- Faileed..keep same team 2003- failed.. keep same team/change manager thats the problem 2004-failed.. change all the players.. and when that doesn't work?? Hmm See a pattern here, with KW as the Gm??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 12:42 PM) 2001- failed..keep same team 2002- Faileed..keep same team 2003- failed.. keep same team/change manager thats the problem 2004-failed.. change all the players.. and when that doesn't work?? Hmm See a pattern here, with KW as the Gm??? When that doesn't work, we make a change. Even Kenny will tell you he was givin a fair chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 When that doesn't work, we make a change. Even Kenny will tell you he was givin a fair chance. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can't wait for that day.. to bad it is at the loss of another season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 12:57 PM) Can't wait for that day.. to bad it is at the loss of another season. don't ever let me catch you jumping on the bandwagon of this team during the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 don't ever let me catch you jumping on the bandwagon of this team during the season. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If the Sox win, I give KW his due.. unlike you who continue to praise him for his failures.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 01:03 PM) If the Sox win, I give KW his due.. unlike you who continue to praise him for his failures.. this season hasn't begun yet, how has he failed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Anthrax, do you honestly think williams failed for not returning to the playoffs after 2000? Do you know how incredibly flukey that season was? How many players on that team had career years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 i wonder what a poll will show for KW supporters compared to KW haters??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Anthrax, do you honestly think williams failed for not returning to the playoffs after 2000? Do you know how incredibly flukey that season was? How many players on that team had career years? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not talking about 2000, since 2001.. KW has said that he building teams for the playoffs while giving our minor leagues, looking like the Sarah. We as a team cannot afford to Buy big time FA players , instead we need to grow thoseplayers ourselves. Which during KW tenure..How many have come through our system and succeed? 1 maybe 2? Until he fixes the huge gapping hole, and stop overpaying for useless talent..We will never win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 01:24 PM) I am not talking about 2000, since 2001.. KW has said that he building teams for the playoffs while giving our minor leagues, looking like the Sarah. We as a team cannot afford to Buy big time FA players , instead we need to grow thoseplayers ourselves. Which during KW tenure..How many have come through our system and succeed? 1 maybe 2? Until he fixes the huge gapping hole, and stop overpaying for useless talent..We will never win. We had five players on the team last year that came through our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 We had five players on the team last year that came through our system. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. Aaron Rowand 2. Mark B.. I don't see who else came through and succeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 01:29 PM) 1. Aaron Rowand 2. Mark B.. I don't see who else came through and succeded. Lee. Ordonez. Crede. Forget about them? Edit: The response to this should be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Lee. Ordonez. Crede. Forget about them? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lee and Maggs were already in the Bigs when KW was the Gm.. They don't count. Crede, I would not call him a success story, when he can hit above .250 then yes he is.. great glove just bad stick right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 01:37 PM) Lee and Maggs were already in the Bigs when KW was the Gm.. They don't count. Crede, I would not call him a success story, when he can hit above .250 then yes he is.. great glove just bad stick right now. Wtf does it matter if he was the gm or not? Not like he is the one drafting them in the first place. Point is they came through the white sox farm system and succeeded, some more than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Wtf does it matter if he was the gm or not? Not like he is the one drafting them in the first place. Point is they came through the white sox farm system and succeeded, some more than others. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> NO the point is that as GM KW has only 2 players come through.. You can't win on a minimal budget and no farm system. But, for some reason KW has you fooled you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 01:41 PM) NO the point is that as GM KW has only 2 players come through.. You can't win on a minimal budget and no farm system. But, for some reason KW has you fooled you can. No, they were both in the system before he became gm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 01:41 PM) NO the point is that as GM KW has only 2 players come through.. You can't win on a minimal budget and no farm system. But, for some reason KW has you fooled you can. Most of that is because he traded those guys and got us ready made major leaguers, instead of waiting 3 or 4 years to see if kids develop or not. He has made a bunch of impact aquisitions using the farm system as bait. Obviously many teams value the players down there, because they keep trading us their players to get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 That is so unfair to KW. You totally ignore the rash of injuries he's faced. 2004: Schow (lost Aug+Sep), Thomas(lost J+A+S), Maggs(lost J+J+A+S). Put another way, KW has lost about 35%-40% of the payroll to injuries in the last 4 years. I challenge any other GM to win a division with that luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 That is so unfair to KW. You totally ignore the rash of injuries he's faced. 2004: Schow (lost Aug+Sep), Thomas(lost J+A+S), Maggs(lost J+J+A+S). Put another way, KW has lost about 35%-40% of the payroll to injuries in the last 4 years. I challenge any other GM to win a division with that luck. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Umm Min Twins? They have had major injuries to the staff and postion players and minor leguers were able to step up, same thing with the ANgels last year. I am so sick of the injury card being played.. that is a cop out answer in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2005 -> 04:25 PM) Umm Min Twins? They have had major injuries to the staff and postion players and minor leguers were able to step up, same thing with the ANgels last year. I am so sick of the injury card being played.. that is a cop out answer in baseball. How many teams have won it all since KW's been GM? All other 29 teams? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.