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Favre coming back


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QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 12:18 AM)
Just based on what I've seen, throwing the numbers completely out the window and guessing how my Top 10 QBs will be ranked once the 2005 season comes to a close:

 

1. Peyton Manning

2. Donovan McNabb

3. Michael Vick

4. Tom Brady

5. Daunte Culpepper

 

6-10 in no particular order

 

Drew Brees

Chad Pennington

Ben Roethlisberger

David Carr

Carson Palmer

 

Palmer tore s*** up in his last 6 games with a 100+ rating.  Carr kinda faded down the stretch, but he's just too damn good not to put up an 85 to 90 rating in what will be his 4th season.  Pennington has a career rating of 94, so he could be the most underrated QB in the league because you rarely ever hear him mentioned when people (other than NY Jets fans) talk about elite QBs.

dont know about the last 2 yet...

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QUOTE(rangercal @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 02:44 AM)
I see a big difference between 90's favre and favre now. The pack should think about rebuilding. They are not going to win anything with him. He is a middle of the pack qb in the league right now. Hes getting older and I really dont think he's worth 10 million dollars. Give craig nall a shot. They will rebuild when its too late and be the packers of the 80's again. Detroit will have a better record  than GB this year and Favre will retire a loser. This is ahman greens team now.

They are re-loading if not rebuilding right now. They have dumped their starting safety, cut Hawthorne, not re-signed either guard, and made a plethora of other moves.

 

I really don't think they will "wait too long" to rebuild their team. They are in a transition process to clear up cap space and build more through the draft while getting rid of the big contracts. Ted Thompson knows what he is doing and is making some good moves. That includes acquiring Jim Bates and the D-Coordinater.

 

With the parity in the NFL along with the more than capable front office and coaching staff (not so sure about Sherman), if the Pack fade and need to rebuild it will not be like the "Packers of the 80's". That is a completely different era and completely different NFL than exists today. It is also a completely different situation in Green Bay than it was 25-30 years ago.

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QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 07:15 AM)
Name 10 QB's that are better and do more for their team then.

 

Here are the key stats as far as I'm concerned:

 

Against NFC Division Opponents:

13 TD

3 INT

 

Against The Rest Of The NFL:

17 TD

14 INT

 

Against Very Good Defensive Teams (PHIL, CAR, WASH, JACK, TENN):

6 TD

11 INT

 

He can still light up a weak defensive team like Indianapolis or St. Louis, and he definitely has it easy in the NFC Central, but he'll take a s*** in the playoffs -- that's just about guaranteed.

 

I have him in my All-Time Top 10, but not my current Top 10 (or what I think it will be when 2005 comes to a close).

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QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 06:18 AM)
Just based on what I've seen, throwing the numbers completely out the window and guessing how my Top 10 QBs will be ranked once the 2005 season comes to a close:

 

1. Peyton Manning

2. Donovan McNabb

3. Michael Vick

4. Tom Brady

5. Daunte Culpepper

 

6-10 in no particular order

 

Drew Brees

Chad Pennington

Ben Roethlisberger

David Carr

Carson Palmer

 

Palmer tore s*** up in his last 6 games with a 100+ rating.  Carr kinda faded down the stretch, but he's just too damn good not to put up an 85 to 90 rating in what will be his 4th season.  Pennington has a career rating of 94, so he could be the most underrated QB in the league because you rarely ever hear him mentioned when people (other than NY Jets fans) talk about elite QBs.

 

I like yuor list, but as I said they are all relatively young. Brett Favre has done this over a long period of time. These other QBs you have listed, especially 6-10, have done it for only 1 or 2 years. Micheal Vick is definately not consistent in what he does and has been injured often and he is in your top 5. It is hard to put those young QBs ahead of Favre when they have not done it and proven themselves over a longer period of time such as Favre has. Again, this is just showing that the NFL is in a great deal of turnover at the QB position. This does not by any means prove how great Favre is by todays standards.

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QUOTE(southsideirish @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 03:26 PM)
I like yuor list, but as I said they are all relatively young. Brett Favre has done this over a long period of time. These other QBs you have listed, especially 6-10, have done it for only 1 or 2 years. Micheal Vick is definately not consistent in what he does and has been injured often and he is in your top 5. It is hard to put those young QBs ahead of Favre when they have not done it and proven themselves over a longer period of time such as Favre has. Again, this is just showing that the NFL is in a great deal of turnover at the QB position. This does not by any means prove how great Favre is by todays standards.

 

I hear you, but I'm not ready to compare the QB position to the Center position in the NBA. There is just far too much young talent, as you stated.

 

I went to look at Montana's first year with KC (when he was 37). There were still a good number of legendary quarterbacks doing their thing (Young, Elway, Moon, Kelly), and only a couple of damn good up-and-comers (Aikman, Bledsoe).

 

Today, you have a s***load of up-and-comers and hardly any HOF caliber veterans that are over 30 years of age. If anything, guys just aren't lasting as long as they used to (McNair, Aikman, etc).

 

But that could all be bulls*** as well.

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1. Peyton Manning

2. Donovan McNabb

3. Michael Vick

4. Tom Brady

5. Daunte Culpepper

 

6-10 in no particular order

 

Drew Brees

Chad Pennington

Ben Roethlisberger

David Carr

Carson Palmer

 

i'm going to have tp disagree with you on this. Im a packer fan so of course im a huge Brett Favre fan. Peyton Manning, Donovan Mcnabb and Daunnte Culpepper are probably better than Favre now. But Tom Brady? Yeah he has the super bowl wins, but he is a product of a good system, put him on Dolphins and lets see how good he is. Drew Brees? The guy had one good year, he has been a average Qb all other years. Roethlisberger? Good rookie year, but he was super over hyped, he threw almost as many picks as he did tochdowns. David Carr and Carson Palmer have looked average at best, they every once in a while will look good but its way to early to start calling pro bowlers. Has Chad Pennington even played a full year yet? He has really weak arm and can't handle pressure.

 

I'm not even going to get into Mike Vick.

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QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 04:21 PM)
i'm going to have tp disagree with you on this.  Im a packer fan so of course im a huge Brett Favre fan.  Peyton Manning, Donovan Mcnabb and Daunnte Culpepper are probably better than Favre now.  But Tom Brady?  Yeah he has the super bowl wins, but he is a product of a good system, put him on Dolphins and lets see how good he is.  Drew Brees?  The guy had one good year, he has been a average Qb all other years.  Roethlisberger?  Good rookie year, but he was super over hyped, he threw almost as many picks as he did tochdowns.  David Carr and Carson Palmer have looked average at best, they every once in a while will look good but its way to early to start calling pro bowlers.  Has Chad Pennington even played a full year yet?  He has really weak arm and can't handle pressure.

 

I'm not even going to get into Mike Vick.

 

By the time 2005 comes to a close in the case of the young guys like Palmer, Carr, Roethlisberger, Brees, etc. I'm not rating guys going into 2005. Pennington's career QB rating is 94.

 

Michael Vick? .700 career winning percentage with not much of a supporting cast? Easily the best rushing QB in NFL history? Led his team to the NFC Championship game with a below average to average OL, not a single pro bowl caliber receiver, an average defense at best, and a rookie coach?

 

You wanna see an absolute nightmare of season? Put Favre in Atlanta. It's the difference between going 6-10 and going to the NFC Championship game.

 

Yeah, you're right. 36 year old Favre owns him, or pwns him, or whatever.

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QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 04:33 PM)
By the time 2005 comes to a close in the case of the young guys like Palmer, Carr, Roethlisberger, Brees, etc.  I'm not rating guys going into 2005.  Pennington's career QB rating is 94.

 

Michael Vick? .700 career winning percentage with not much of a supporting cast?  Easily the best rushing QB in NFL history?  Led his team to the NFC Championship game with a below average to average OL, not a single pro bowl caliber receiver, an average defense at best, and a rookie coach?

 

You wanna see an absolute nightmare of season?  Put Favre in Atlanta.  It's the difference between going 6-10 and going to the NFC Championship game.

 

Yeah, you're right.  36 year old Favre owns him, or pwns him, or whatever.

 

I would be willing to bet that at the end of 2005 Kerry Collins has better numbers than Brett Favre. With that surrounding cast how could he not? Randy Moss, Jerry Porter, Doug Gabriel, Ronald Curry, LaMont Jordan and a pretty good offensive line will lead to a damn good year for Collins. I could see many QBs putting up better numbers than Favre at the end of 2005, but I thought we were ranking them as of right now and what we know of the QBs as of right now. Favre just has more history and has proven much more to be put below QBs such as Vick, Pennington, Brees, Palmer, Leftwitch, and Carr. However, this is just my opinion. Everone has their own way of ranking players.

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QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 04:33 PM)
By the time 2005 comes to a close in the case of the young guys like Palmer, Carr, Roethlisberger, Brees, etc.  I'm not rating guys going into 2005.  Pennington's career QB rating is 94.

 

Michael Vick? .700 career winning percentage with not much of a supporting cast?  Easily the best rushing QB in NFL history?  Led his team to the NFC Championship game with a below average to average OL, not a single pro bowl caliber receiver, an average defense at best, and a rookie coach?

 

You wanna see an absolute nightmare of season?  Put Favre in Atlanta.  It's the difference between going 6-10 and going to the NFC Championship game.

 

Yeah, you're right.  36 year old Favre owns him, or pwns him, or whatever.

 

You sure are giving Vick a lot of credit considering he has started only 36 games in his career.

 

As for Pennington, I am not even going to get into that.

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QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 08:28 PM)
You sure are giving Vick a lot of credit considering he has started only 36 games in his career.

 

As for Pennington, I am not even going to get into that.

 

Sure, but when I say that Lebron James and Dwyane Wade are absolute studs and in my Top 10 NBA players list, could you claim that it's an inaccurate thing to say since they've only been in the NBA for 1 1/2 seasons?

 

Certain players just come along and break the mold.

 

And Chad Pennington....I'd have to reiterate once again (third time in this thread) that he has a career rating of 94 going into his 4th season. What is it about Chad that doesn't merit a spot in a Top 10 QB list?

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QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Mar 11, 2005 -> 08:36 PM)
Sure, but when I say that Lebron James and Dwyane Wade are absolute studs and in my Top 10 NBA players list, could you claim that it's an inaccurate thing to say since they've only been in the NBA for 1 1/2 seasons?

 

Certain players just come along and break the mold.

 

And Chad Pennington....I'd have to reiterate once again (third time in this thread) that he has a career rating of 94 going into his 4th season.  What is it about Chad that doesn't merit a spot in a Top 10 QB list?

 

It is very hard to compare sports. I can see where you are coming from and you are trying to make a good comparison, but I just don't think it is the same. The entire NBA is a huge youth movement. The NFL still has consistent players that have proven they can do it year after year. I can't think of that many players in the NBA that have proven they can do it year after year on a consistent basis. Maybe Shaq, Garnett, Kobe, Iverson, Ray Allen? Its just not the same, nor a fair comparison, although I can see where you are coming from.

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