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Uribe's "foul call"


Milkman delivers
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Guest JimH
If Konerko thinks a teammate did something "ethically" wrong, then he should talk to the teammate about it, not the press. True leaders don't hang teammates, especially ones with limited skills to communicate with the media, out to dry.

 

In general I agree.

 

We don't know if Konerko and Uribe already spoke about on the bench or something ... and Konerko knew he'd be asked about it since the microphones seem to always be in his face. Again I agree with your premise but there are variables we may not know.

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QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ May 23, 2005 -> 12:21 PM)
He calls out his own teammates in the press, that's a reason to not be a team leader.

He isn't producing, that's a reason to not be a team leader.

There are other players on this team that are better-suited to be the team leader, that's another reason.

 

 

 

I don't think I have ever heard Paul Konerko say he is the team leader of the White Sox and when you lead the team in homers, walks and rbi's, how are you not producing?

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QUOTE(LauraJ14 @ May 23, 2005 -> 02:53 PM)
I don't think I have ever heard Paul Konerko say he is the team leader of the White Sox and when you lead the team in homers, walks and rbi's,  how are you not producing?

 

He's about 10 points off the Mendoza line, that's how. And it doesn't matter that he doesn't refer to himself as the team leader (what player on any team says that?), it's understood that he is.

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On the cubs message board it seemed like most of them blamed Derrek Lee for it, and i would tend to agree. Would i be mad if les say it happened to Konerko? Hell yeah i would but he probably wouldnt be able to make it home anyways :P . And in the end i would blame Konerko for not looking at the 3B coach that is what he's there for.

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I love Ozzie. Look at this quote:

 

"The guy's just trying to win," Lee said. "He's doing whatever it takes. I think Ozzie will tell him that's not the right way to do it."

 

Guillen, however, had a different message.

 

"That's the (bleeping) way we play," Guillen said. "That's the big leagues. That's White Sox baseball."

 

White Sox baseball indeed. This seems to fit under "Win or die trying."

 

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/231sd4.htm

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I just heard Derek Lee and Busty's quotes on ESPN 1000. Derek Lee said it was his fault he listened to an opposing team's player. He said he wouldn't fall for that kind of thing again. He never said it was a dirty or cheap play however. Of course, Busty cried about it and said that it was poor gamesmanship by Uribe. The funny thing is that there were 2 outs so Lee should have been running regardless.

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To be honest I can't believe this is even being talked about. Almost every middle infielder tries the same exact thing Juan did, Lee fell for it and that's his fault. Pauly needs to keep his mouth shut cause he's wrong about this.

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OMG JUAN LIED TO DERREK LEE, WHAT A MEANIE. HE SHOULD SAY SORRY AND BUY HIM A COOKIE NOW, SO THAT WAY WE CAN ALL BE FRIENDS!

 

This is seriously something Paulie need not take to the media and rather take to the clubhouse. If you have a problem with it, confront the team about it...but there is nothing dirty about the play, nothing bush about it. He is not cheating - he is using Derrek Lee's own stupidity and lack of baseball fundamentals to save a run.

 

I mean, this kind of play essentially won the 91 World Series for the Twins. Without the DP deke, the Braves probably win that game.

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QUOTE(JimH @ May 23, 2005 -> 10:36 AM)
In general I agree.

 

We don't know if Konerko and Uribe already spoke about on the bench or something ... and Konerko knew he'd be asked about it since the microphones seem to always be in his face.  Again I agree with your premise but there are variables we may not know.

We don't play the game in the majors. I know when I played you would try and trick if you were playing an infield position. Act as if you were getting ready to catch the ball to hold the runner on 2nd (thinking the ball was coming in and he didn't have time to go to 3rd). Those were little things that are part of the game.

 

As far as calling a foul ball fair...not cool in my book. However I have no idea if Uribe even did it on purpose. But thats just my 2 cents on the issue. I wouldn't do that to the other team and I wouldn't expect that back. To me that goes beyond trying to outsmart opponents.

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On a sidenote....I think all Paulie was saying is he didn't think that was the way you play the game. He didn't know what Uribe did and he went as far as to say that in the quote. I think people are really overreacting to this.

 

And if it won us the world series, you'd probably hear another reaction out of me. Hell I'm sure if Jeter did it during the series it would be called brilliant. However, all that being said I think it goes beyond what a player should do.

 

Hell I don't like it when a player tries to fake as if he caught the ball when he knows damn well he trapped it.

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QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ May 23, 2005 -> 12:59 PM)
He's about 10 points off the Mendoza line, that's how.  And it doesn't matter that he doesn't refer to himself as the team leader (what player on any team says that?), it's understood that he is.

I dont think its much of a mystery that AJ has taken over a LARGE portion of the leadership on this team. Its evident just watching them in the dugout.

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Just look at Ozzie's quotes on Paulie and its also rather evident that despite the low batting AVG Ozzie still feels Paul is contributing. Plus mix that with all the comments KW had about Paulie over the offseason and its evident to me that the organization is still quite high on Konerko.

 

Konerko is the ultimate team player. Now he may of called Uribe out when he shouldn't of, but once again I don't see this as him calling him out rather saying he disagreed with the play if Uribe did in fact lie (never said he did either). But thats just my 2 cents.

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I agree with Chisoxfn,

 

Its f***ing bush league of Uribe, and it should be below a team who is in 1st place with the best record in the league.

 

We do not need to play this way to win. If we were in the Cubs position, than maybe I would have a different opinion. But when you are winning, you win the right way. And when you are losing, you do what it takes to win.

 

::shrugs::

 

Karma is a b****, and if this is the way the White Sox are going to try and win championships, I doubt we'll hang many banners.

 

Kind of like when A-Rod tried to knock the ball out of the Red Sox players glove...

 

I guess winning with class is a thing of the past.

 

SB

Edited by Soxbadger
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QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 23, 2005 -> 03:45 PM)
Just look at Ozzie's quotes on Paulie and its also rather evident that despite the low batting AVG Ozzie still feels Paul is contributing.  Plus mix that with all the comments KW had about Paulie over the offseason and its evident to me that the organization is still quite high on Konerko.

 

Konerko is the ultimate team player.  Now he may of called Uribe out when he shouldn't of, but once again I don't see this as him calling him out rather saying he disagreed with the play if Uribe did in fact lie (never said he did either).  But thats just my 2 cents.

 

 

Or perhaps they have enough class not to call out Paul on his pathetic BA in the press. :rolly

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I think Uribe is more of a "headier" player now than I did yesterday. This moved worked. Lee didn't slide he didn't put his arms around him and hold on and say, hey Derek foul ball stop running. For all we know he didn't say anything. This is the game of baseball. Buck Showalter walking across the mound on Garland, Lou Pinella talking to the runner on first in an obvious steal situation, these are little things that cost a team a game and can win games. This how the twins play. I like this play, yelling foul may be wrong but again did anyone ask Uribe? Raising your arms to indicate foul is fine, Lee should look at Spier not Uribe. Case closed.

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QUOTE(WHarris1 @ May 23, 2005 -> 12:56 PM)
Good God WHAT THE f*** IS WRONG WITH WHAT JUAN DID?

 

Why would you stop running because you enemy told you to?

Its no different than Arod trying to rip the ball out of Millar or whoever was playing firsts mit. Its just classless and you don't do it.

 

Its bush league as Badger said. There are suttle aspects of the game where you try to outsmart the player. Like I mentioned faking the cutoff to slow the runner down or at least trick him into thinking the throw is coming. However, thats entirely different from faking out a fair or foul ball. That goes one step too far in my book and its not how I played the game. You can also try and trick the player with that lame fake to 3rd throw to 1st move (once again no problem).

 

Now Lee still made another baserunning gash later in the game when he didn't go 1st to 3rd on a single to right and its still his responsibility to look to his 3rd base coach who should have the better angle. However its still bush league for Uribe to do.

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QUOTE(Soxbadger @ May 23, 2005 -> 02:52 PM)
I agree with Chisoxfn,

 

Its f***ing bush league of Uribe, and it should be below a team who is in 1st place with the best record in the league.

 

We do not need to play this way to win. If we were in the Cubs position, than maybe I would have a different opinion. But when you are winning, you win the right way. And when you are losing, you do what it takes to win.

 

::shrugs::

 

Karma is a b****, and if this is the way the White Sox are going to try and win championships, I doubt we'll hang many banners.

 

Kind of like when A-Rod tried to knock the ball out of the Red Sox players glove...

 

I guess winning with class is a thing of the past.

 

SB

 

If what Uribe did could be compared to A-Rod, Lee would've been awarded home.

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There is nothing per say wrong with what Uribe did.

 

It just sets a bad precedent. If people think you play dirty, they will play the same way against us.

 

The White Sox do not need other teams not only gearing up because we are number 1, but being told that we play dirty etc.

 

::shrugs::

 

Some times you may win the battle, and lose the war. And that is my belief on plays like this. Maybe they work and save us a run. But do we need the other team having fuel to beat us?

 

HSC,

 

No because what Uribe did is not against any written rule. But that does not make it wrong or low brow.

 

We are the best team and baseball, we dont f***ing need to pull bulls*** to win. It makes us look like cowards who are afraid of winning fairly.

 

:;shrugs::

 

SB

Edited by Soxbadger
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QUOTE(Soxbadger @ May 23, 2005 -> 01:00 PM)
There is nothing per say wrong with what Uribe did.

 

It just sets a bad precedent. If people think you play dirty, they will play the same way against us.

 

The White Sox do not need other teams not only gearing up because we are number 1, but being told that we play dirty etc.

 

::shrugs::

 

Some times you may win the battle, and lose the war. And that is my belief on plays like this. Maybe they work and save us a run. But do we need the other team having fuel to beat us?

 

SB

I'll say this, what Juan did is a lot better than the way the Sox had played under Jerry Manuel with all there boneheaded plays. This at least shows they are paying attention to the little aspects of the game. Hell, I think Juan is a far more heady player than I ever suspected prior to this.

 

I mean I see both sides of the situation and in the end it just falls on what you think is the right way to play and what you think isn't. It could go either way and I'm sure if you did a survey in the majors you'd get a pretty split reaction.

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Its no different than Arod trying to rip the ball out of Millar or whoever was playing firsts mit.  Its just classless and you don't do it. 

 

Its bush league as Badger said.  There are suttle aspects of the game where you try to outsmart the player.  Like I mentioned faking the cutoff to slow the runner down or at least trick him into thinking the throw is coming.  However, thats entirely different from faking out a fair or foul ball.  That goes one step too far in my book and its not how I played the game.  You can also try and trick the player with that lame fake to 3rd throw to 1st move (once again no problem). 

 

Now Lee still made another baserunning gash later in the game when he didn't go 1st to 3rd on a single to right and its still his responsibility to look to his 3rd base coach who should have the better angle.  However its still bush league for Uribe to do.

That's a ridiculous comparison. A-Rod actually PHYSICALLY interfered with a play. Uribe was not in Derek Lee's way or anything like that. He only yelled something at him. It is Lee's job to look for his 3rd base coach on whether to run or not. Besides, there were 2 outs. Lee should have been running regardless. :headshake

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Hilarious comparison?

 

I think the only dolt in the thread is you.

 

Generally players have a right to the basepath, so if they make contact in that fashion it is legal. A-Rod went beyond this, and tried to purposefully make the ball fall out of the players mit.

 

Compare to Uribe:

 

Players generally can fake out a player. But it is far different to tell a player, "Hey that was foul".

 

You know most people think the opponent has honor, and if they are saying its foul its because that is the way they would want to be treated. He tricked Lee, and that is bush league.

 

Half the people in this thread would of been crying if it had gone against the Sox, ie Perez told Uribe it was a foul ball and Uribe stopped running.

 

Maybe no one has class anymore, who knows.

 

SB

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