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fathom

Do we need another starting pitcher?

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With Duque's ERA nearing the magical 5 mark (4.88), and his WHIP exceeding 1.60, I personally believe that we're going to need a 5th starter added to this team in order to make the playoffs. Given Duque's past medical histories also, I'm not very confident in counting on him to have a strong second half this year. The big problem is that there aren't a lot of pitchers on the market right now.

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It was very smart of KW to sign Hernandez to two years.

 

Live with it...

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QUOTE(Yoda @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:48 AM)
It was very smart of KW to sign Hernandez to two years.

 

Live with it...

 

So if Duque's ERA continues to climb into the mid 5s.....we're supposed to "live with it" because our GM gave a two year deal to someone with a history of arm problems and was alive when dinosaurs ruled the earth (sorry Carl Everett). El Duque isn't as bad as our 5th starters were last year, but his last month or so of pitching has resembled last year's debacle way too much.

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It's not going to happen.

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Not quite understanding this one. You're talking about getting rid of a pitcher who is 7-1. Get your head on straight.

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QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:55 AM)
It's not going to happen.

 

So we keep marching out Duque even if he continues to struggle?

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QUOTE(bschmaranz @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:58 AM)
Not quite understanding this one.  You're talking about getting rid of a pitcher who is 7-1.  Get your head on straight.

 

Look past the record, and realize how bad he's looked in the past month or so. I'm not saying get rid of him after tonight. I'm more just anticipating what needs to happen if Duque continues to look like he has nothing left. I'd give Duque 3 more starts to get it turned around. If he still continues to struggle, you might have to consider placing him on the DL again to try and rest his arm.

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QUOTE(bschmaranz @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:58 AM)
Not quite understanding this one.  You're talking about getting rid of a pitcher who is 7-1.  Get your head on straight.

 

 

you dont judge pitchers on records... look at clemens he is probably the best starting pitcher so far but if we judged him by record he would be worse than El Duque.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 14, 2005 -> 08:59 PM)
Look past the record, and realize how bad he's looked in the past month or so.  I'm not saying get rid of him after tonight.  I'm more just anticipating what needs to happen if Duque continues to look like he has nothing left.  I'd give Duque 3 more starts to get it turned around.  If he still continues to struggle, you might have to consider placing him on the DL again to try and rest his arm.

 

It's not like that would be a brand-new situation anyways.

 

I would imagine they put B-Mac in again if a Dl stint is needed.

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I say anthrax will be in this thread within 24 hrs bashing kw for signing el duque. :P

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QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 02:03 AM)
I say anthrax will be in this thread within 24 hrs bashing kw for signing el duque.  :P

 

I didn't like the Duque signing, and still dont. I'm just happy though that we got a solid 1/3 of the season out of him. It's more of a contribution that I figured we'd get from him.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 12:06 PM)
I didn't like the Duque signing, and still dont.  I'm just happy though that we got a solid 1/3 of the season out of him.  It's more of a contribution that I figured we'd get from him.

So I ask again. Who should we have signed instead for $8 million over 2 years?

 

B-Mac is not ready, he's still giving up homers at an alarming rate down at Charlotte.

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QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 02:07 AM)
So I ask again. Who should we have signed instead for $8 million over 2 years?

 

B-Mac is not ready, he's still giving up homers at an alarming rate down at Charlotte.

 

Trust me, I don't want Brandon "Ruffcorn" McCarthy called up anytime soon. I don't recall which pitchers were available when we signed Duque....but no one outside of the Sox PR machine thought it was a good move. With his age, arm injuries, and flyball tendencies, he was a disaster waiting to happen at the Cell. For that reason, I'm content with what he's given us so far. However, I don't see anyway that we can expect Duque to turn it around the rest of the season. He got unbelievably lucky at the beginning of the season getting out of the jams he did. It was just a matter of time for him to start giving up a lot of crooked numbers.

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QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 02:16 AM)
Thanks for letting us know he's done.

 

Just calling it like I see it. Of course, just cause I say something, that doesn't make it right. For the record, I was saying how awful Duque looked this season well before he started giving up 4-6 runs every outing. It was just a matter of time for his terrible WHIP to catch up to him.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 12:12 PM)
Trust me, I don't want Brandon "Ruffcorn" McCarthy called up anytime soon.  I don't recall which pitchers were available when we signed Duque....but no one outside of the Sox PR machine thought it was a good move.  With his age, arm injuries, and flyball tendencies, he was a disaster waiting to happen at the Cell.  For that reason, I'm content with what he's given us so far.  However, I don't see anyway that we can expect Duque to turn it around the rest of the season.  He got unbelievably lucky at the beginning of the season getting out of the jams he did.  It was just a matter of time for him to start giving up a lot of crooked numbers.

Ok well let's compare El Duque to some other pitchers who got bigger deals this off-season.

 

Jaret Wright: 2-2, 9.15 ERA, 13 K's, 9 BB's

Russ Ortiz: 4-5, 5.45 ERA, 32 K's, 41 BB's

Odalis Perez: 4-4, 4.50 ERA, 32 K's, 10 BB's

Eric Milton: 3-8, 7.97 ERA, 44 K's, 23 BB's

Jon Lieber: 8-4, 4.61 ERA, 47 K's, 19 BB's

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QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 02:20 AM)
Ok well let's compare El Duque to some other pitchers who got bigger deals this off-season.

 

Jaret Wright: 2-2, 9.15 ERA, 13 K's, 9 BB's

Russ Ortiz: 4-5, 5.45 ERA, 32 K's, 41 BB's

Odalis Perez: 4-4, 4.50 ERA, 32 K's, 10 BB's

Eric Milton: 3-8, 7.97 ERA, 44 K's, 23 BB's

Jon Lieber: 8-4, 4.61 ERA, 47 K's, 19 BB's

 

The only guy that was an option when we signed Duque was Milton, and that was never going to happen. Besides the win total (which has more to do with the Sox than Duque this year), his numbers are pretty much on par with the mediocre numbers you posted. Good job with the stats though, they come in handy for these friendly disagreements :cheers

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QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 12:35 PM)
The only guy that was an option when we signed Duque was Milton, and that was never going to happen.  Besides the win total (which has more to do with the Sox than Duque this year), his numbers are pretty much on par with the mediocre numbers you posted.  Good job with the stats though, they come in handy for these friendly disagreements :cheers

And Duque's making almost half of what those guys are making this season. In the inflated off-season market for starting pitchers, the Sox did very well to get El Duque for that price in the first place. With all the problems we had with our 5th starters over the past few seasons, if you had asked if El Duque would have won 7 games in mid June, would you take it? Of course you would. He's a second half pitcher as well, even though I haven't been pleased with his last few starts.

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QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 02:42 AM)
And Duque's making almost half of what those guys are making this season. In the inflated off-season market for starting pitchers, the Sox did very well to get El Duque for that price in the first place. With all the problems we had with our 5th starters over the past few seasons, if you had asked if El Duque would have won 7 games in mid June, would you take it? Of course you would. He's a second half pitcher as well, even though I haven't been pleased with his last few starts.

 

That's the thing, without looking at stats or any numbers, I'm just making my statement with what I observe happening when I watch him pitch. I don't like Duque's command, stuff, or attitude on the mound right now. I know Hawk loves to say how Duque likes to pitch with guys on, but that's not going to work in the 2nd half of the year when the ball's flying out of the park. Duque looks like he can't get a lefty out to save his life right now either.

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Duke likes to pitch with man on? Duke cant get them out that is why he always pitches with man on.

 

The other pitcher that we were supposed to have offered money to was Clement. I know he got a lot of money from the BoSox but he has pitched pretty good so far not counting the last start I think when he got rocked.

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QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 14, 2005 -> 10:05 PM)
Duque is still better than any of our 5 pitchers. I'll take it. Our offense though has gone back into a slump.

 

Question_Mark.jpg

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QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 14, 2005 -> 10:05 PM)
Duque is still better than any of our 5 pitchers. I\

:huh:

:huh: :huh:

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QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 14, 2005 -> 10:13 PM)
guys he obviously meant the number 5 starters from last 2 years

 

At this rate he won't be much of an improvement other than money.

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