Crede on Block?

[greg775]

I wouldn't underestimate Joe's glove.

It's pretty comforting to have him at the hot corner.

I wouldn't trade him for Randa.

Joe frustrates me as much as anybody with his inability to break through as

a hitter, but he's prett damn good on d.

[Jabroni]

Konerko is hitting .250 now.

 

Crede is hitting .249 now.

[Balta1701]

Konerko is hitting .250 now.

 

Crede is hitting .249 now.

 

That is all I wanted from Joe this year. As long as he's not hitting .220, he's my guy. He's also hitting .294 in June (probably better after tonight - I don't think ESPN.com's updated yet). If you drop that absolutely awful May from his record, he'd be nearly hitting .300.

 

Konerko, btw, is hitting .340 in June.

Edited June 22, 2005 by Balta1701

[Kalapse]

Konerko is hitting .250 now.

 

Crede is hitting .249 now.

Dye is hitting .269 now.

 

Pods gained 9 points on his BA today, he's up to .289

[Jabroni]

Dye is hitting .269 now.

 

Pods gained 9 points on his BA today, he's up to .289

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dye has truly risen from his grave. Pods helped his AVG and OBP today.

[qwerty]

Dye is hitting .269 now.

 

Pods gained 9 points on his BA today, he's up to .289

 

I am glad i didn't get all down on dye's offense the first couple of months. Lot's of people wanted his balls chopped off and gave him a cute nickname ''dead'' All that i really expected from his was .260-.275 and 30 or so homers which it looks like he will be giving us. The one conceren i had about him offensively was how he has hit right handers the past three years, but i felt playing here that should change. I have to also admit i never liked his defense even before we got him. His range was just too poor to me and how he nearly plays at the warning track gets old. His defense has been piss poor... all that i ask from him is hit the cut off man.

[Rowand44]

I am glad i didn't get all down on dye's offense the first couple of months. Lot's of people wanted his balls chopped off and gave him a cute nickname ''dead'' All that i really expected from his was .260-.275 and 30 or so homers which it looks like he will be giving us. The one conceren i had about him offensively was how he has hit right handers the past three years, but i felt playing here that should change. I have to also admit i never liked his defense even before we got him. His range was just too poor to me and how he nearly plays at the warning track gets old. His defense has been piss poor... all that i ask from him is hit the cut off man.

His defense has definitely been worse then I expected, he's hitting exactly the way I expected, but he's exceeded my expectations with his baserunning, he's been much better on the base paths then I thought he'd be.

[TheHammer]

First of all, you sound very familiar to another poster who was on this site recently.  I asked once before, let me ask again ... are you back here under another user name?

 

No I'm not and that was something you could and should have asked privately. That was a b**** move. Especially if the person you are referring to isn't here because he was kicked off or something. I apologize for calling it a b**** move if that person you are referring to was revered like a god. I do not recall you asking this before, or at least I didn't read it.

 

2nd ... every statement you make is subjective ... "better" ... defender, executer, hitter.  We are looking at past performance.  Who's to say Randa will be markedly better?

 

It is also subjective to say Michael Jordan was better than Stacey King. I am considering his career in Kansas City and this season. I will say Randa will be markedly better because he has been markerdly better than Crede since Crede became a starter. If you adjusted for park I am sure the difference would be much more profound.

 

  I highly doubt the White Sox will trade a starting position player for a marginal improvement.  Not that sports radio knows what they're talking about, but I found it interesting about 1/2 hour ago that George Offman on The Score said the Sox will stick with Crede unless they can make a huge upgrade.  He said they made a very attractive offer to Oakland for Chavez, and were turned down.  Oakland is not willing to trade Chavez.  He specifically mentioned Randa after being prompted by a caller ... he said they are not willing to change things (change the chemistry) for what may or may not be a marginal upgrade.

 

A second ago you took KW's word that he was not interested in swapping for a starter but would add a piece if it could help. Now you are citing someone who claims they made a lucrative offer for Chavez. You are right sports writers don't know what they are talking about. Anyway, since I am sure we don't know if KW would make the move so maybe we should stick to asking whether he should make the move.

 

 

The you can't be serious is referring to the idea that he is somehow something less than he is because he signed with the Reds. Like a good player can't sign with a "Non-contender". I meant you can't be serious that the thought of no contenders wanted him entered your head. I doubt there is a team that would take him. But he obviously wasn't going to sign somewhere where he couldn't start.

 

Range ... where are you coming up with this?  Range factor statistics?  If you want to rely on that, certainly that's your right.  I don't hold much stock in range factor stats for a 3B because where they're positioned is often predicated on the SS and how much range they have.  From watching Joe Crede and Joe Randa quite a bit, I don't see much difference.  Again, it's subjective.

 

Crede has always had very limited range to his left, do you honestly not notice this? His range factor stats are average, Randa's are well above average and he has come up with big plays against us the last 5 years or so at the hot corner.

 

As for the SS/3B relationship a good 3B is actually going to have more effect on the SS because any ball the 3B can get he gets taking chances away from the SS. Certainly the stat is not perfect and can mislead, but in this case it says Crede's range is nothing to brag about and that plays out on the field. And even in your example that only shows how range factor can underscore your range so even considering its imperfections it seems that it is probably accurate in stating Randa still possesses good range.

 

 

What's less than realistic is this board saying things like Randa is better and it's not debateable.  Huh??  Statistically a better hitter?  Yes.  A better fit for this team at this time?  Certainly debateable.

 

Less realistic than this would be, claiming that Stacey King was better than Michael Jordan. Although it is subjective there is no good argument for one over the other. Is there a good argument that Crede is a better hitter than Randa? I don't think so. Is there a good argument that Crede is a better executer than Randa? I can't see a good one. Is there a good argument that Crede is a better defender than Randa? Maybe, this one is clearly closer than the other two. But I think the thing most are thinking is I know Crede is above average so Randa is probably not quite as good. I see two good glove men one who has good range and one has does not.

 

I guess anything is debateable, but sometimes one side of a debate is obviously wrong. I don't know if we should trade Crede for Randa if given the chance but I do know that Randa is a better player and I am very confident he would improve the team for this season at least.

 

I would honestly rather Crede just keep hitting .300 like he did in April and like he is doing now and not make the trade, but Crede keeping up his hitting seems unrealistic. I would also like to keep Crede for sentimental reasons.

 

Now stop making me write long responses my fingers are hurtin for certain.

[Jabroni]

Wow, Randa is showing some power this season. He just hit his 11th homer tonight.

 

Joe Randa

.292 AVG

.362 OBP

.494 SLG

.856 OPS

11 HR

38 RBI

26 BB

39 SO

 

He is definately the guy we should go after if Crede's bat goes dead. He is cheap (1-year, $2.15 million contract) and I doubt he would cost much in the way of prospects.

Edited June 22, 2005 by Jabroni

[Balta1701]

I am glad i didn't get all down on dye's offense the first couple of months. Lot's of people wanted his balls chopped off and gave him a cute nickname ''dead'' All that i really expected from his was .260-.275 and 30 or so homers which it looks like he will be giving us. The one conceren i had about him offensively was how he has hit right handers the past three years, but i felt playing here that should change. I have to also admit i never liked his defense even before we got him. His range was just too poor to me and how he nearly plays at the warning track gets old. His defense has been piss poor... all that i ask from him is hit the cut off man.

 

His bat was absolutely dead the first month of the season, I called him Dead even though I was one of the ones saying he'd come around.

 

My biggest worry when we signed him was his health. He has had a series of freak injuries worse than Mark Prior. Thus far he's been healthy. I'm really hoping he stays that way. That's probably still my big worry with him; I figured he'd pick up a few HR's and so forth by moving from Oakland to the Cell.

[rangercal]

Wow, Randa is showing some power this season.  He just hit his 11th homer tonight.

 

Joe Randa

.292 AVG

.362 OBP

.494 SLG

.856 OPS

11 HR

38 RBI

26 BB

39 SO

 

He is definately the guy we should go after if Crede's bat goes dead.  He is cheap (1-year, $2.15 million contract) and I doubt he would cost much in the way of prospects.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp...g=13487.1&ctx=0

 

It looks like twin fans may want randa too

[Jabroni]

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp...g=13487.1&ctx=0

 

It looks like twin fans may want randa too

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The dual-purpose of Randa helping our team and screwing over the Twins would make it worth trading for him.

Edited June 22, 2005 by Jabroni

[Guest JimH]

No I'm not and that was something you could and should have asked privately.  That was a b**** move.  Especially if the person you are referring to isn't here because he was kicked off or something.  I apologize for calling it a b**** move if that person you are referring to was revered like a god.  I do not recall you asking this before, or at least I didn't read it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll just respond to this part because the rest of your post is nonsensical psychobabble. Just like the guy who got booted for acting like a know it all goof.

 

I'll ask what I want, when I want, how I want. If you don't like it, go "b****" elsewhere.

[JUGGERNAUT]

There is so much talk about range factor but the main stat for a defender is zone rating. Everyone knows Crede is slower to react than Randa when moving L-R. But he is far superior at fielding anything hit in front of him. That's why he has twice as many DP's as Randa this year & that's why his ZR (zone rating) is higher. .825 to .804. It's only a 2% difference because of their strengths & weaknesses. But Crede as 14 DP's (prior to last night's game) & Randa only has 8.

 

Why should I dump Crede for Randa when he has a hot stick, his defense has helped us win numerous 1 run games, he's doing it at the tail end of the order, & his 2nd 1/2 numbers have consistently been better than Randa's in the AL?

 

Let's not forget that Ozuna continues to perform every chance he gets to play.

[Milkman delivers]

Wow, Randa is showing some power this season.  He just hit his 11th homer tonight.

 

I just had an idea. Could Randa spell Konerko at 1B? Has he ever played there? What if we were to get Randa without giving up Crede somehow, and he could play every few days (sort of like Everett in LF/RF/DH) at 1B and 3B?

 

And I just checked and he's played a grand total of 11 games at 1B...but his fielding percentage is 1.000

[Guest JimH]

I just had an idea.  Could Randa spell Konerko at 1B?  Has he ever played there?  What if we were to get Randa without giving up Crede somehow, and he could play every few days (sort of like Everett in LF/RF/DH) at 1B and 3B?

 

And I just checked and he's played a grand total of 11 games at 1B...but his fielding percentage is 1.000

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Interesting idea.

 

This much I am quite sure of, the White Sox would not need to trade Joe Crede to get Joe Randa.

 

Further, I'm sure Randa could play 1B better than both Michael Jordan and Stacey King. :rolly

 

But, I don't think there's room on the roster.

[daa84]

There is so much talk about range factor but the main stat for a defender is zone rating.  Everyone knows Crede is slower to react than Randa when moving L-R.  But he is far superior at fielding anything hit in front of him.  That's why he has twice as many DP's as Randa this year & that's why his ZR (zone rating) is higher.  .825 to .804.  It's only a 2% difference because of their strengths & weaknesses.  But Crede as 14 DP's (prior to last night's game) & Randa only has 8.

 

Why should I dump Crede for Randa when he has a hot stick, his defense has helped us win numerous 1 run games, he's doing it at the tail end of the order, & his 2nd 1/2 numbers have consistently been better than Randa's in the AL?

 

Let's not forget that Ozuna continues to perform every chance he gets to play.

exactly right, i wrote an article not too long ago about how much more valuable zone rating is as opposed to range factor, ill try to dig it up. range factor is actually more reflective on the pitcher, especially at a position like 3b. taking credes ZR, hes very good. ZR is the reason Valentin wasn't half as bad defensively as most people thought he was.

[Milkman delivers]

Interesting idea.

 

This much I am quite sure of, the White Sox would not need to trade Joe Crede to get Joe Randa.

 

Further, I'm sure Randa could play 1B better than both Michael Jordan and Stacey King. :rolly

 

But, I don't think there's room on the roster.

 

Well, the outfield is crowded as it is. We have backups at each OF position in Everett and Harris. In the infield, we have a backup for 2B and SS in Ozuna and Harris. The thing we lack is a credible backup for 3B and 1B, and Randa would fill that order beautifully (depending on his 1B ability). That leaves a certain player, who will remain nameless, expendable.

 

With Randa and Crede, I'd say our team is set offensively and defensively.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Just spoke to my Cincy 'source', he says NO WAY Randa for Crede goes down. They have this Edwin Encarnacion kid they are in love with and grooming as their 3B of the future. He suspects Randa will be dealt by the deadline, but for starting pitching. FWIW.

[GreenSox]

Joe Randa is not a .260-.270 hitter he's a .285-.295 hitter. Check his career stats.

36 years old, beaten up, no power (although he is having a career power year). Just what we need.

[Milkman delivers]

Just spoke to my Cincy 'source', he says NO WAY Randa for Crede goes down. They have this Edwin Encarnacion kid they are in love with and grooming as their 3B of the future. He suspects Randa will be dealt by the deadline, but for starting pitching. FWIW.

 

Well, we I don't want to do a Crede for Randa straight trade anymore. I'd like to have both, the more I think about it.

[YASNY]

Just spoke to my Cincy 'source', he says NO WAY Randa for Crede goes down. They have this Edwin Encarnacion kid they are in love with and grooming as their 3B of the future. He suspects Randa will be dealt by the deadline, but for starting pitching. FWIW.

 

I think Cincy would JUMP at a Randa for Crede deal. Even if they have this kid waiting in the wings, Crede will have significant value this off season, and Randa walks.

[JUGGERNAUT]

If Randa is willing to accept a bench role I would be interested in acquiring him. The Sox do have starters to spare so if that is what Cincy is asking we can certainly meet that price.

[Milkman delivers]

If Randa is willing to accept a bench role I would be interested in acquiring him.  The Sox do have starters to spare so if that is what Cincy is asking we can certainly meet that price.

 

I don't really know if it's a bench role. He'd be the infield version of Carl Everett...there'd be plenty of PT.

[YASNY]

I think Randa would love the chance to play for a contender in whatever role ... A career of KC, and now last place Cinci?