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TRADE THREAD II ~ July 2 - July 8

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Did anyone see that ESPN has as the headline in rumors, "Vizquel headed to the White Sox?

 

I wonder from which paper they got this from

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Let me just chime in to point 1 thing out...

 

I believe someone just advised us to make A.J. Burnett the highest paid player on our roster by giving him the $10 million+ that it'll take to sign him as a free agent.

 

Just think about this...you're talking about making a person with a 42-43 career record our highest paid player. You can tell me wins and losses don't matter all you like...but the guy has been on some pretty good teams in Florida, and the best mark he has ever posted is 12-9. He's also 0-2 in the postseason.

 

Giving huge contracts to pitchers with poor career records? How has that worked out for Steinbrenner?

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Vizquel certainly is hitting well vs RHP, a Sox weakness. In 210 AB's, he's hitting .329/.390/.410.

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QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 08:47 PM)
I thought their catcher was Yorvit Torrealba after Santiago?

 

it's torrealba and mike matheny.

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Maybe KW is just leaking this so that the Yankees will try to go after Griffey while he goes after something of actual value. I mean, they do need a centerfielder in New York, so Griffey would be a perfect fit right?

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 03:51 PM)
Let me just chime in to point 1 thing out...

 

I believe someone just advised us to make A.J. Burnett the highest paid player on our roster by giving him the $10 million+ that it'll take to sign him as a free agent.

 

Just think about this...you're talking about making a person with a 42-43 career record our highest paid player.  You can tell me wins and losses don't matter all you like...but the guy has been on some pretty good teams in Florida, and the best mark he has ever posted is 12-9.  He's also 0-2 in the postseason.

 

Giving huge contracts to pitchers with poor career records?  How has that worked out for Steinbrenner?

Exactly what Im saying, even if our payroll increases, I dont think that we can sign a 3rd or fourth starter as our highest paid player, especially what he is going to tender in the market. This is not a win/win situation for us.

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Guest JimH
Did anyone see that ESPN has as the headline in rumors, "Vizquel headed to the White Sox?

 

I wonder from which paper they got this from

 

What the hell, I give up.

 

You heard it here first, the White Sox are officially after everyone, except Cub players. :D :bang :lol:

 

By the way, off topic, but the Cubs looked really, really bad in the first game today. I caught a few innings while out for lunch and then the last inning. It appeared they did not have a pulse.

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QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 02:06 PM)
You heard it here first, the White Sox are officially after everyone, except Cub players. :D  :bang  :lol:

But aren't we supposedly after Rusch?

Edited by Balta1701

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I like what we'd be giving up in the deal if we can avoid dealing B-Mac, Anderson, and Gio. I'd have no problem giving up Marte, Tracey, and Sweeney for a key player given the way that Marte has struggled recently. However, I'm not so sure that Burnett is the right answer. His similarity to Kerry Wood is scary. He's got filthy stuff, but he walks a lot of guys and is typically gone by the start of the 7th, and he is going to cost a s***load of money. I'm not overly concerned about his inury history, however, because to the best of my knowledge it was one injury, albiet a Tommy John surgery.

 

The major issue is I don't see the Sox signing him long term with our current situation. We already have 5 starters under contract for next season, and with Garland's imminent raise 4 of them are probably going to be making $6 million plus. I don't see how a $10-$12 mil starter fits in there unless we can con them into taking Contreras or Hernandez, which I doubt the Marlins would do. However, if we could get him and sign him that'd be pretty cool.

 

After looking at his game log, some interesting things come up. One, he's failed to go less than 6 innings only once, and he was hit with numerous unearned runs in the 5th in that game. Also, he's pitched into the 7th in 7 of his 17 starts, with three of those being complete games. He's also not as wild as some of us think. He's only walked more than 3 in 3 of his starts. That's not really that bad. As for his injury history, he pitched 173 innings in 2001, and 204 in 2002. He's only pitched in 4 other years before that. His first two he was still developing, the next two were shortened because of his Tommy John surgery. He hasn't had a problem since the surgery, so I wouldn't exactly call him injury prone. I think there is a pretty good chance we'd be acquiring a solid starter that will be a work horse for the next few years. I'd go for it if we could resign him. I would assume that dumping Contreras or Hernandez would be a pre-requisite for that, so that'd solve the logjam issue.

Edited by ZoomSlowik

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 08:51 PM)
Let me just chime in to point 1 thing out...

 

I believe someone just advised us to make A.J. Burnett the highest paid player on our roster by giving him the $10 million+ that it'll take to sign him as a free agent.

 

Just think about this...you're talking about making a person with a 42-43 career record our highest paid player.  You can tell me wins and losses don't matter all you like...but the guy has been on some pretty good teams in Florida, and the best mark he has ever posted is 12-9.  He's also 0-2 in the postseason.

 

Giving huge contracts to pitchers with poor career records?  How has that worked out for Steinbrenner?

 

I think people just get wowed with his "stuff", which of course is why KW traded for Jose Contreras last year when we'd likely be better off with Esteban Loiaza as our 4th starter.

 

After reading all of these posts, I'm not sold on Burnett. 1) He likely won't sign, 2) if he does, he'll cost more than he's worth, thereby undermining team chemistry, 3) Florida will want too many high prospects, and 4) won't take Contreras in the deal, thereby leaving us with 6 starters eating up way too much of the payroll, and 5) he's shown no history of being healthy and pitching a lot of innings. In other words, the return on investment may actually be negative depending on what Florida will demand in return.

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QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 04:19 PM)
I think people just get wowed with his "stuff", which of course is why KW traded for Jose Contreras last year when we'd likely be better off with Esteban Loiaza as our 4th starter. 

 

After reading all of these posts, I'm not sold on Burnett.  1) He likely won't sign, 2) if he does, he'll cost more than he's worth, thereby undermining team chemistry, 3) Florida will want too many high prospects, and 4) won't take Contreras in the deal, thereby leaving us with 6 starters eating up way too much of the payroll, and 5) he's shown no history of being healthy and pitching a lot of innings.  In other words, the return on investment may actually be negative depending on what Florida will demand in return.

Great post, and thats what Im worried about, the value. I think the sox, as a smaller market team, need to worry about the value they are getting in a trade. This one, I dont think is beneficial for us to make. The minuses outweight the pluses.

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Guest JimH
But aren't we supposedly after Rusch?

 

Not that I've heard.

 

This is what I mean when I say this stuff takes on a life of its own.

 

Dan McNeil mentioned to Bruce levine very innocently "wouldn't Rusch look good in a Sox uni?" and Levine said the Cubs aren't looking to move him, they are not in any hurry or reason to help the White Sox, etc. etc.

 

And yet, it is still out there somehow that the Sox are going after Rusch. i don't know why these things always take on a life of their own.

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Meh, I'm on the fence. I mean if we could give up what it looks like we would be giving up for Burnett, no doubt I do it, even if it's for a rental, especially with the White Sox supposedly looking heavily at Eddie Guardado.

 

I don't know how he's going to help us much more than Contreras however. I mean, RockRaines had a good point and while I think Burnett is a better pitcher, it's not that bad of a comparison at all folks.

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QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 02:48 PM)
Did anyone see that ESPN has as the headline in rumors, "Vizquel headed to the White Sox?

 

I wonder from which paper they got this from

 

It all came from the story in the Southtown.

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QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 03:19 PM)
I think people just get wowed with his "stuff", which of course is why KW traded for Jose Contreras last year when we'd likely be better off with Esteban Loiaza as our 4th starter. 

 

After reading all of these posts, I'm not sold on Burnett.  1) He likely won't sign, 2) if he does, he'll cost more than he's worth, thereby undermining team chemistry, 3) Florida will want too many high prospects, and 4) won't take Contreras in the deal, thereby leaving us with 6 starters eating up way too much of the payroll, and 5) he's shown no history of being healthy and pitching a lot of innings.  In other words, the return on investment may actually be negative depending on what Florida will demand in return.

 

I highly disagree. Loaiza is pitching in a pitcher's ballpark in the NL. Give him 1 more run that would be scored on him in the AL and he has a worse ERA than Contreras. Minus the last 3 of the last 4 starts, Contreras has a way better ERA than Loaiza.

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QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 04:27 PM)
Meh, I'm on the fence. I mean if we could give up what it looks like we would be giving up for Burnett, no doubt I do it, even if it's for a rental, especially with the White Sox supposedly looking heavily at Eddie Guardado.

 

I don't know how he's going to help us much more than Contreras however. I mean, RockRaines had a good point and while I think Burnett is a better pitcher, it's not that bad of a comparison at all folks.

Heres my problem with this, this situation is purely a rental. There is no way we will pay AJ 10 million dollars at least in a muti year deal at the end of the season. With that being said, if we are going to trade an essential bullpen arm and our top prospects for a player, if its a rental, it better be the best player in that position. With AJ, I dont feel that way. He has decent numbers in the NL, a pitchers park, with great defense. With his move to the AL, his ERA will most likely rise, not all the hits will stay in the yard, and its possible our defense is about equal. With that being said, the only thing that will remain constant is the walks and pitch count. With a couple of more hr's more runs given up and the same amount of runners on the base paths, I dont think he is the dominant arm to rent for a couple of months. Not to mention that he will be another guy who will take his toll on the bullpen because he doesnt last as deep into games as MB, Garland and Freddy.

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Okay these rumors are driving me nuts. In the last week I heard we are after:

1. Schmidt

2. Vizquel

3. Burnett

4. Griffey Jr. (For Rowand? Thats the dumbest trade rumor I have heard in the history of life) Nobody wants Mr. Potato Chip Cracky Bones on our team. Quit living in the past people.

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QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 03:34 PM)
Okay these rumors are driving me nuts. In the last week I heard we are after:

1. Schmidt

2. Vizquel

3. Burnett

4. Griffey Jr. (For Rowand? Thats the dumbest trade rumor I have heard in the history of life) Nobody wants Mr. Potato Chip Cracky Bones on our team. Quit living in the past people.

:lolhitting :lolhitting

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QUOTE(That funky motion @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 05:36 PM)
:lolhitting  :lolhitting

:bang :lolhitting :lolhitting :lolhitting :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Actually, not only has he pitched more games on the road this year than at home, he has a slightly better ERA on the road. His home park isn't having a major effect on his stats like it does with a lot of players. Plus not only is he a strikeout pitcher, he's getting a ton of groundballs this year, and has been a slight groundball pitcher in his career. I really don't think that the park will affect him too much, and the league switch shouldn't be too pronounced with a guy with his kind of stuff.

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On how many teams would Burnett be a #1 starter for at the moment? Just something to consider when we're talking about a #3 or #4 guy in our rotation.

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If the White Sox refused to include McCarthy, the Marlins could accept prospects along with Marte and then trade a package of young players for another starting pitcher -- perhaps Giants righthander Jason Schmidt.

 

OMFG! This is the biggest pipe-dream in the history of the universe but if the Sox could somehow do this and have a rotation of:

 

Buehrle

Garcia

Garland

Schmidt

Burnett

 

.........:faints:

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