TRADE THREAD II ~ July 2 - July 8

[ZoomSlowik]

Boo I say to that.  Everytime he pitches you should be hoping he returns to form, thus getting KW more interested, and thus getting us another ace for the postseason.  Think positively...

 

As others have said, I fail to see how a guy with a 5.11 ERA in a pitcher's park in the NL is an improvement and an ace.

[RockRaines]

As others have said, I fail to see how a guy with a 5.11 ERA in a pitcher's park in the NL is an improvement and an ace.

Based on his career numbers and his history of being an ACE. He performed well with AJ as his catcher last year as well.

 

Over the last 3 years his BAA has been .218, .200, .202

His K/9 have been 9.52, 9.01, 10.04

 

his slugging has been below 340 all three years.

 

Those are ACE numbers.

Edited July 8, 2005 by RockRaines

[RibbieRubarb]

Not making any changes for chemistry was also what the 2002 Anaheim Angels did.

 

 

 

And look at all the changes the 2003 Marlins made...

 

It's not changing that ruins chemistry, but WHO you bring in.

 

I am not an advocate of Schmidt by any means, but his start against the Cards will be a true test to see where he is this year.

[Rowand44]

Schmidt will have a very good outing tonight against the Cards, I'm fairly confident in saying that.

[Wedge]

And look at all the changes the 2003 Marlins made...

 

It's not changing that ruins chemistry, but WHO you bring in.

 

I am not an advocate of Schmidt by any means, but his start against the Cards will be a true test to see where he is this year.

 

as was his start against the Diamonbacks in which he sucked.

[Rowand44]

For those that think chemistry is overrated--I really disagree. There are teams that have won that don't like each other, no doubt, however there are also teams like this current one who like each other so much that they play harder then they ever have before. These guys will run through walls for each other and the manager and the general manager. It's something special the sox have going on the field and off the field. If the Sox are going to make the trade it'll be for someone that fits in. The good thing is that Dustin and AJ know what Schmidt's personality is like and ditto with Ozzie and Burnett. If and when the Sox make a trade it'll be for a good character guy, I can guarantee that.

[ZoomSlowik]

Based on his career numbers and his history of being an ACE. He performed well with AJ as his catcher last year as well.

 

Over the last 3 years his BAA has been .218, .200, .202

His K/9 have been 9.52, 9.01, 10.04

 

his slugging has been below 340 all three years.

 

Those are ACE numbers.

 

Take a look at his numbers since the All-star break of last year. He had a 4.02 ERA after the break to go along with his crappy numbers this year, and you still have to compensate for the move to a hitter's park and the AL switch.

[upnorthsox]

Not making any changes for chemistry sake is what Pat Gillick and the 2001 Seattle Mariners did.  They tore threw the regular season with no equal.  Then in the playoffs they were dispatched with barely a whimper in the ALCS.

 

Overconfidence in a BP that was overrated and thus not added to was their downfall. Their starters did ok vs the Yanks, their closer had an era of 54.00.

[beck72]

For those that think chemistry is overrated--I really disagree.  There are teams that have won that don't like each other, no doubt, however there are also teams like this current one who like each other so much that they play harder then they ever have before.  These guys will run through walls for each other and the manager and the general manager.  It's something special the sox have going on the field and off the field.  If the Sox are going to make the trade it'll be for someone that fits in.  The good thing is that Dustin and AJ know what Schmidt's personality is like and ditto with Ozzie and Burnett.  If and when the Sox make a trade it'll be for a good character guy, I can guarantee that.

 

Almost to a man the sox have talked about how great the chemistry is. Whoever is brought in [and the sox will bring in a guy or two] will have a track record of being a team guy

 

Also, with new guys like Pierzynski, Hermanson, Dye, etc, KW can go by their recommendations as well if they were old teammates or know them personally.

[beck72]

Take a look at his numbers since the All-star break of last year. He had a 4.02 ERA after the break to go along with his crappy numbers this year, and you still have to compensate for the move to a hitter's park and the AL switch.

 

I think there is something to the poor numbers of Schmidt [as well as the drop in velocity] and the switch in leagues could be a factor. That's why the sox might be best served going for the best available SP from the AL. Esp guy who have had a good track record vs. possible playoff opponents.

 

If Zito is on the block, like Bob Nightengale wrote the A's are listening to offers, getting him locked up for 1 1/2 yrs at a reasonable price sounds like the best deal out there. IIRC, he's done very well vs the Angels and Twins in his career. I don't know who else in the AL would qualify as the best available SP. For my money, it's Zito

[sircaffey]

Almost to a man the sox have talked about how great the chemistry is. Whoever is brought in [and the sox will bring in a guy or two] will have a track record of being a team guy

 

Also, with new guys like Pierzynski, Hermanson, Dye, etc, KW can go by their recommendations as well if they were old teammates or know them personally.

 

Pretty convenient that the 2 pitchers that we are supposedly interested in, Schmidt and Burnett, have been recent teammates with either AJ/Hermy or Ozzie. Good references as to character. I don't think that will be an issue.

[sircaffey]

As others have said, I fail to see how a guy with a 5.11 ERA in a pitcher's park in the NL is an improvement and an ace.

 

That is why I root for Schmidt to return to form. I don't think KW will touch Schmidt in current form, but if he does return to form, he would be an another ace that could be added if KW so chose. Root for him to return to form...

[ZoomSlowik]

That is why I root for Schmidt to return to form.  I don't think KW will touch Schmidt in current form, but if he does return to form, he would be an another ace that could be added if KW so chose.  Root for him to return to form...

 

I don't see the point. If he sucks, he's gonna end up staying on the Giants. If he's decent, he's probably going to stay on the Giants because his trade value won't be great and there'll be hope for next year. If he kicks ass he probably stays on the Giants so they can compete next year; or his trade value would jump and we wouldn't be able to get him anyways.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Schmidt is a really big risk. Not only has he been roughed up but he also lost a little of his fastball. For a guy whose lost some of his fastball, coming to the AL would not be complimentary. I've read a few articles that say he does get up to 94 but rarely.

[beck72]

Pretty convenient that the 2 pitchers that we are supposedly interested in, Schmidt and Burnett, have been recent teammates with either AJ/Hermy or Ozzie.  Good references as to character.  I don't think that will be an issue.

 

My concerns about these two are more in terms of health, not character or even ability. If the sox are going to give up a lot of talent, they don't want the guy to break down. Both are big risks to break down.

 

Now, seeing that Zito and Dye were golfing buddies......

[beck72]

Schmidt is a really big risk. Not only has he been roughed up but he also lost a little of his fastball. For a guy whose lost some of his fastball, coming to the AL would not be complimentary. I've read a few articles that say he does get up to 94 but rarely.

 

If Schmidt was completely healthy and at the top of his game, SF would hold into him. That they're willing to peddle him and see what they can get, sounds too convenient for me. Damaged goods, as some scouts from other teams have said.

[Balta1701]

If Zito is on the block, like Bob Nightengale wrote the A's are listening to offers, getting him locked up for 1 1/2 yrs at a reasonable price sounds like the best deal out there. IIRC, he's done very well vs the Angels and Twins in his career. I don't know who else in the AL would qualify as the best available SP. For my money, it's Zito

Here's the key phrase..."Reasonable price."

 

Right now, you can figure that the Yankees, Orioles, White Sox, Red Sox, Braves?, Cardinals, Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks, Cubs, Indians, Twins, and Rangers could all be served in a playoff race by acquiring another starting pitcher. Right now, K.C., Tampa Bay, Seattle, and Pittsburgh have guys they might be willing to move because they're completely out of it. Aside from that, almost every other team either has nothing people would really want or is close enough to the wild card that they wouldn't want to trade yet unless they got an offer they couldn't refuse. That includes Oakland.

 

Asking Oakland to Trade Zito now is asking them to say that the run they've been on since Crosby came back is entirely a fluke. That's a hard thing for any team to say, because it'll cost them on the bottom line; if there's no hope, people don't come to the park.

[beck72]

Here's the key phrase..."Reasonable price."

 

Right now, you can figure that the Yankees, Orioles, White Sox, Red Sox, Braves?, Cardinals, Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks, Cubs, Indians, Twins, and Rangers could all be served in a playoff race by acquiring another starting pitcher.  Right now, K.C., Tampa Bay, Seattle, and Pittsburgh have guys they might be willing to move because they're completely out of it.  Aside from that, almost every other team either has nothing people would really want or is close enough to the wild card that they wouldn't want to trade yet unless they got an offer they couldn't refuse.  That includes Oakland.

 

Asking Oakland to Trade Zito now is asking them to say that the run they've been on since Crosby came back is entirely a fluke.  That's a hard thing for any team to say, because it'll cost them on the bottom line; if there's no hope, people don't come to the park.

 

Well, if guys like Kotsay, Durazo, Hatteburg are out the door by the 31st, Zito probably is too.

 

Reasonable price? I'm not sure. But the sox could afford to start by parting with Anderson and BMac. Not many other teams can do that with their AAA guys

[ZoomSlowik]

I've never been a big fan of Zito. His numbers the last two years are fairly pedestrian. He's been getting better as this season goes on, but I still don't think he's the ace that he was earlier in his career. I don't think he's fallen off as bad as Schmidt, I just think he's more of a mediocre 2 or a solid 3 type starter at this point in his career, plus you have the migration from pitcher-hitter park again. Plus Billy would probably be asking for the entire farm system.

 

I think Burnett's injury issues are overblown. He's really only had one injury, albiet a major one. He's not really on the Kerry Wood/Ken Griffey Jr./J.D. Drew level of injury prone. I suppose you're always going to worry about someone that throws as many pitches as hard as he does, but he's healthy now and pitching well, so I wouldn't be as worried about it. I think his contract status is a bigger impediment to the trade. However, if we could do something like El Duque, Marte, and Anderson/Sweeney, we'd not only be preventing a log jam that would result from acquiring a starter, but also possibly have enough money to resign him.

Edited July 8, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[SoxFan1]

I don't see the point. If he sucks, he's gonna end up staying on the Giants. If he's decent, he's probably going to stay on the Giants because his trade value won't be great and there'll be hope for next year. If he kicks ass he probably stays on the Giants so they can compete next year; or his trade value would jump and we wouldn't be able to get him anyways.

Thats what I was thinking. If he becomes Jason Schmidt again why would the Giants trade him??? Instead, go for it next year with him and Barry again.

[Dick Allen]

The guy I wanted, Pettitte, has a sore elbow, so scratch him.

[RockRaines]

However, if we could do something like El Duque, Marte, and Anderson/Sweeney, we'd not only be preventing a log jam that would result from acquiring a starter, but also possibly have enough money to resign him.

KW would never trade El Duque, he is clutch

[VAfan]

For those that think chemistry is overrated--I really disagree.  There are teams that have won that don't like each other, no doubt, however there are also teams like this current one who like each other so much that they play harder then they ever have before.  These guys will run through walls for each other and the manager and the general manager.  It's something special the sox have going on the field and off the field.  If the Sox are going to make the trade it'll be for someone that fits in.  The good thing is that Dustin and AJ know what Schmidt's personality is like and ditto with Ozzie and Burnett.  If and when the Sox make a trade it'll be for a good character guy, I can guarantee that.

 

Does anyone who brings up "chemistry" think that either Schmidt or Vizquel would in any way undermine the chemistry of this club? Schmidt was a gamer who helped SF get to the World Series, as was Omar when he was in Cleveland. Neither guy won it all, so they are still hungry. We aren't talking volatile guys like Kevin Brown, Kenny Rogers, or Jose Guillen. They won't be a problem. I know Schmidt has said he doesn't want to leave SF, but I can't believe he wouldn't do his best to help us win if he came aboard.

 

The only issue is whether Schmidt's arm troubles are going to keep him from pitching well in October.

[ZoomSlowik]

KW would never trade El Duque, he is clutch

 

I only mentioned El Duque because it'd be a little easier for the Marlins to swallow his salary than Contreras'. They could probably use a starter back in the deal given that they wouldn't have a whole lot of depth and Beckett is injury prone. I'm sure they'd rather have a good young major league level starter, but teams don't give up those kind of players, especially when seeking pitching in the deal.

[bulokis]

I dont know but I would like to see Oliver Perez from PIT. Get another lefty on our rotation. I know they have Duke and Snell out there so they might be willing to part ways with him.