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London Bombings


DonkeyKongerko
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QUOTE(DonkeyKongerko @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 02:04 PM)
Glad to hear the British Soxtalkers are ok.

 

The international response has been alot stronger than expected.  The markets especially show me people refuse to go down easily.

The markets today fell because the price of oil fell...the good news is it didn't plummet because of the attacks, but I think its clear that the scale of them wasn't such that it could cause major economic distress.

 

Oil hit a record high yesterday on account of the gulf storms...it's only natural there woudl be a bit of a correction today, and that stocks would float based on that.

 

For the Markets to see a major impact from attacks, I'd expect it would have to either a.) be huge, on a 9/11 scale, b.) hit a vital target, such as an oil refinery, or c.) hit a place that does serious damage to the american consumer's willingness to shop, like a series of malls.

 

These did none of that.

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QUOTE(ChiSoxyGirl @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 06:28 PM)
It's amazing how calm the Londoners seem.

 

I'd like to remind those responsible for this; we are GREAT Britain, we will not panic, there will be no mass histerics, we will remain calm and your actions have not had the effect you hoped for. (Where is that damn Union Jack smilie!)

Regarding suicide bombers, the local news recons that the bus bomb was set of by one. I can only hope that the gates were locked.

Edited by DePloderer
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I don't know if anyone else is interested in this...but in case you're curious...here is a translation of hte purported Al Qaeda message posted on a website this morning by a previuosly unknown group claiming responsibility.

 

The Group of the Secret Organization

The Organization of Qaedat al-Jihad in Europe

 

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Blessings and peace be upon the mirthful warrior, our lord Muhammad--may the blessings and peace of God be upon him.

 

As to the rest:

 

Community of Islam: rejoice at the good news! Community of Arabism: rejoice at the good news! The time of revenge has come for the crusader, Zionist British government.

 

In response to the massacres that Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan, the heroic holy warriors have undertaken a blessed raid (ghazwah)in London. Behold Britain now, ablaze with fear and terror, horrified from its north to its south, from its east to its west.

 

We had warned the British government and the British people over and over again.

 

Behold, we have made good on our pledge, and have carried out a blessed military raid in Britain after strenuous efforts that the heroic holy warriors have undertaken continuously over a long period of time, so as to guarantee the success of the raid.

 

We continue to warn both the governments of Denmark and of Italy and all the crusader governments that they shall partake of the same retribution if they do not withdraw their forces from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who has given a warning is thereafter excused.

 

God, may He be exalted, said, “If you aid God, God will aid you, and will plant your feet firmly.”

 

Thursday 20/5/1426 = 7/7/2005

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QUOTE(DePloderer @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 03:33 PM)
I quote; Behold Britain now, ablaze with fear and terror, horrified from its north to its south, from its east to its west.

 

Er hardly. May I refere these tossers to my previous comments.

You may refer them to the infernal regions for all I care. (I just ask that you give them a trial first)

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Just an observation and I could be wrong, but does it seem like there aren't that many pictures or images of the wreckage or the injured floating around? The media keeps showing the same few pics, especially the bus with it's top blown off and even that shot is from a far away distance. I know it wasn't a planned event and people were busy helping the injured and not taking pics, but still it seems kind of unsusual. There were 7 explosions and the same 15 photos keep floating around. Even the Madrid bombings seemed to have more footage. :huh I could be wrong.

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QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jul 8, 2005 -> 03:20 PM)
Just an observation and I could be wrong, but does it seem like there aren't that many pictures or images of the wreckage or the injured floating around?   The media keeps showing the same few pics, especially the bus with it's top blown off and even that shot is from a far away distance.   I know it wasn't a planned event and people were busy helping the injured and not taking pics, but still it seems kind of unsusual.  There were 7 explosions and the same 15 photos keep floating around.    Even the Madrid bombings seemed to have more footage.   :huh   I could be wrong.

 

 

 

There were 4 bombs, the people from the trains were coming out of more than one station and so early reports thought that each station had been bombed. As to the need for more pictures, I'm unsure as to why they are needed, but todays papers are full of them.

I have to say though that todays TV and Radio programmes have not had wall to wall coverage, I do feel this shows how we in Britain will take this in our stride. While it goes without saying that this is a massive tradgedy and my thoughts are with the freinds and familys of the dead and injured, as I mentioned in an earlier post; we have been here before, got through it and moved on. This is the only way to beat these terrorists. ( Admin - I realy could do with a UK smilie at this point!)

Edited by DePloderer
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Today's column from John Kass of the Trib was excellent as usual.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columni...ll=chi-news-col

 

America woke to the news that terrorists had bombed London, and a few of us wondered: Will the British remain the British, or will they become Spaniards and cave?

 

But then Prime Minister Tony Blair began to speak. As he did so, images flashed in a corner of the television screen, the crumpled bus and the frightened people, and emergency vehicles with lights flashing.

 

There was no trembling in Blair's voice, no trembling over whether the attacks were Britain's payback for joining the United States against Islamofascism in Iraq.

 

Unfortunately, a reedy sound of fear was barely audible here, just hours after London was bombed, as Americans were jarred from summer sleep by the reminder that we remain targets, too.

 

So, certainly, today you may read that fear trickling from some terrified fingertips, anticipating the next attack while arguing that we are somehow to blame for possible future attacks on our own soil.

 

But I didn't hear that sort of bleating from the British people or from Blair on Thursday. His was the voice of a leader, angry, yes, hurt, yes, but in command.

 

"It is important, however, that those engaged in terrorism realize that our determination to defend our values and our way of life is greater than their determination to cause death and destruction to innocent people, to impose extremism on the world.

 

"Whatever they do," Blair said, "it is our determination they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and other civilized nations throughout the world."

 

Perhaps it's too early to tell if the British will hold, or whether domestic political squabbling will cause them to step away from the U.S.

 

Spain walked. Three days before their national elections in 2004, 191 people were killed and more than 1,500 were injured in a series of train bombings in Madrid.

 

Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, whose support for the U.S. in Iraq was increasingly unpopular, insisted on lying and blaming Basque separatists. Yet on the eve of the March 14, 2004 election, Aznar's government announced the arrests of three Moroccans and two Indians and found a videotape by an alleged Al Qaeda official claiming responsibility.

 

It was a political disaster for Aznar, and the Socialist Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero was elected. Spain withdrew its troops from Iraq, and the U.S. lost another ally.

 

The same could happen to Blair. But I doubt it. The Brits are made of sterner stuff, and they've lived through much worse. What is more--and what many here may have forgotten--is that the Brits know who they are. They are men and women of the West. And so are we.

 

There were casualties, terrible casualties, but nothing close to what happened in New York on Sept. 11, 2001, and nothing like the bombing of London during World War II, night after night after night.

 

Yet Britain has been attacked because we are allies in Iraq, because we together support Israel, but primarily because we are of the West and the Islamofascist terrorists are threatened and fearful of the West.

 

It is about time that we acknowledge it. The terrorists aren't merely offended by our culture. They're deathly afraid of it, by the cliches of Coke and blue jeans, by the fact that women of the West don't bow to men, by what's in our great libraries, by what we value, and by the promise of Islamic democracy threatening them in the Middle East.

 

This isn't a new conflict. It goes back nearly 2,500 years, to when East met West in a narrow passage called Thermopylae.

 

This is not only about our support of Israel. We could abandon Israel tomorrow and, walking away, try convincing ourselves that we've removed another pretext for terrorist attacks. Would the terrorists stop then? Of course not.

 

Others wonder, passively yet quite politically, whether our alleged arrogance in detaining suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay may have provoked the attacks in London. We provoked them? By offering detainees Froot Loops for breakfast and pushing hard for answers?

 

Again, I figure Britain will stick with us, but if they do not, do we have the national will to continue as Americans opposed to our involvement in Iraq speculate about what may come next?

 

For an answer, I'd like to rely on another courageous British prime minister, the late Sir Winston Churchill, from his speech of Oct. 29, 1941:

 

"Sometimes imagination makes things out far worse than they are; yet without imagination not much can be done. Those people who are imaginative see many more dangers than perhaps exist; certainly many more than will happen; but then they must also pray to be given that extra courage to carry this far-reaching imagination. But for everyone . . . this is the lesson: Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in except to the convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force."

 

----------

 

jskass@tribune.com

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I didn't agree with Kass. The Spanish people had been against the war for a long time. I don't think they pulled out because of the terrorist attacks. I think it's sad he can't give props to the British for their resolve and strength without knocking on someone else.

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Queen lets the terrorists know what's up. . .

 

Queen Says Bombers Won't Change Britain

 

Fri Jul 8,12:24 PM ET

 

LONDON -

Queen Elizabeth II said Friday that the terrorist bombings in London "will not change our way of life."

 

"Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community, our humanity, our trust in the rule of law. That is the clear message from us all," she told staff at the Royal London Hospital.

 

The east London hospital was among those treating victims of the three subway explosions and one explosion on a bus on Thursday.

 

The queen expressed her admiration for all the Londoners who "are calmly determined to resume their normal lives."

 

"This is the answer to this outrage. Sadly we in Britain have been all too familiar with acts of terror and members of my generation, especially at this end of London, know that we have been here before," she said, referring to the Nazi air blitz of World War II.

 

"But those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life."

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British resolve to stand firm in the face of terror attacks on their soil clearly cannot be doubted. But the truth is that it has been a long time since the majority of British citizens supported the Iraq War or the British level of participation in it. There was just over 60% support at the start of the war, that went down to around 40% one year later, and down to less than that two years out.

 

The Brits had already made plans to draw down troops over the next 9 months –  from around 9,000 now to around 2,000. Politically, the London bombings might make that harder to do now, since now Blair has to be concerned about the draw down being interpreted as a reaction to the bombings, rather than the reflection of British popular will that it truly is.

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QUOTE(DePloderer @ Jul 8, 2005 -> 11:24 AM)
There were 4 bombs, the people from the trains were coming out of more than one station and so early reports thought that each station had been bombed. As to the need for more pictures, I'm unsure as to why they are needed, but todays papers are full of them.

I have to say though that todays TV and Radio programmes have not had wall to wall coverage, I do feel this shows how we in Britain will take this in our stride. While it goes without saying that this is a massive tradgedy and my thoughts are with the freinds and familys of the dead and injured, as I mentioned in an earlier post; we have been here before, got through it and moved on. This is the only way to beat these terrorists. ( Admin - I realy could do with a UK smilie at this point!)

 

 

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that more pictures are needed. I just find it unusual that there aren't more.

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I totally agree with Kass. Fortunately for Spain, they'll never be faced with having to understand just what the caved in to. For that to happen, the terrorists will have to actually win their jihad against the US and Britain, and then when they turn their eye on Spain and begin to force their radical version of Islam on those people, then it would all hit home.

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QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 03:10 AM)
I totally agree with Kass.  Fortunately for Spain, they'll never be faced with having to understand just what the caved in to. For that to happen, the terrorists will have to actually win their jihad against the US and Britain, and then when they turn their eye on Spain and begin to force their radical version of Islam on those people, then it would all hit home.

God I can't stand it when people completely ignore the facts in order to brand Spain as cowardly against the Terrorists because they got out of Bush's little debacle in Iraq.

 

The traditional Republican "Fact-less" narrative on the Spanish elections is that only Aznar's pro-Bush party would protect them, and electing the other party is a cave in to the terrorists because of the bombings.

 

Let's look at the actual facts.

 

1. The polls in the Spanish election were incredibly close leading up to the election. The last official polling was done a week beforehand, and the polls basically were within the margin of error. There were even some polls showing the Socialists pulling ahead before the bombings.

 

2. After the election...people did exit polls, just like they do in this country. Do you know what the most common reason given for why new people turned out or why people switched their votes was? It wasn't to get out of Iraq, or to cower before Al Qaeda. It was that the Aznar government had immediately tried to jump to the conclusion that it was done by ETA and literally tried to cover up evidence that it was an Al Qaeda strike until after the election. Unlike this country...it seems that the Spaniards actually mind it when their leaders openly lie.

 

3. Here's the biggest one...when Spain pulled those troops out of Iraq, guess what the next move they made with their army was...they took a good chunk of the troops they pulled out of Bush's war in Iraq and pushed them into Afghanistan. You remember Afghanistan...the country that was actually harboring the people who attacked us?

 

You argue that Spain surrendered to the terrorists. How exactly is it a surrender to the terrorists to put troops into the place where Osama Bin Laden (Remember him?) actually was based.

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The Brits blasted their way into a house suspected of holding information about the attacks in Leeds. IIRC one of our British posters is from Leeds, right? If so tell us about this if you can from your perspective? It would be really interesting to hear.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/12...acks/index.html

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QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 04:00 PM)
The Brits blasted their way into a house suspected of holding information about the attacks in Leeds.  IIRC one of our British posters is from Leeds, right?  If so tell us about this if you can from your perspective?  It would be really interesting to hear.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/12...acks/index.html

 

Unsure what IIRC means, but I live in Leeds.

All I can tell you at the moment is what I've heard on the car radio today. This being that early this morning 6 houses were raided, one by explosive force, in various areas of Leeds. A number of houses were evacuated to enable the authorities to blow there way into one house . this house was in Beeston (overlooking Leeds United Football Club). From evidence found here they moved to other houses in Leeds and then Luton. We are now hearing unconfirmed news reports that there have been some arrests. That, unfortunatly, is all I know to be fact.

Edited by DePloderer
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QUOTE(DePloderer @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:16 AM)
All I can tell you at the moment is what I've heard on the car radio today. This being that early this morning 6 houses were raided, one by explosive force, in various areas of Leeds. A number of houses were evacuated to enable the authorities to blow there way into one house . this house was in Beeston (overlooking Leeds United Football Club). From  evidence found here they moved to other houses in Leeds and then Luton. We are now hearing unconfirmed news reports that there have been some arrests. That, unfortunatly, is all I know to be fact.

 

I can't imagine what it has to be like for you guys right now. If you hear anything keep us posted if you can.

 

Stay strong smilie_flagge3.gif

 

Sorry IIRC means if I recall correctly...

Edited by southsider2k5
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QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 05:18 PM)
I can't imagine what it has to be like for you guys right now.  If you hear anything keep us posted if you can.

 

Stay strong smilie_flagge3.gif

 

To be honest with you, it hasn't made a great impact on us today. My kids went to school as normal, my wife to work (in McDonalds no less!) and aside from two canceled apointments, one a laboratory that was under an amber alert and one a restaurant owner who had family living in Beeston, my day has been pretty normal.

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QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 09:18 AM)
I can't imagine what it has to be like for you guys right now.  If you hear anything keep us posted if you can.

 

Stay strong smilie_flagge3.gif

 

Sorry IIRC means if I recall correctly...

I have a lot of trouble understanding this comment...

 

How exactly is it that you can't imagine what it has to be like for Londoners right now? Both nations have suffered their fare share of terrorism. Londoners have probably seen more bombings, while the U.S. has seen more devastating attacks.

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