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JUGGERNAUT

Is homosexuality normal?

Sexually speaking, where do you fall on this 10 pt scale?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Sexually speaking, where do you fall on this 10 pt scale?

    • 1: Dream-wise heterosexual only. Reality-wise heterosexual only.
      13
    • 1.5: Dream-wise sometimes bi-sexual (gorgeous people only). Reality-wise heterosexual only.
      2
    • 2: Dream-wise sometimes bi-sexual. Reality-wise sometimes bi-sexual (gorgeous people only).
      0
    • 2.5: Dream-wise often bi-sexual. Reality-wise sometimes bi-sexual (gorgeous people only).
      0
    • 3: Dream-wise often bi-sexual. Reality-wise sometimes bi-sexual, mostly heterosexual.
      0
    • 4: Dream-wise often bi-sexual. Reality-wise sometimes bi-sexual, mostly homosexual.
      0
    • 4.5: Dream-wise often bi-sexual. Reality-wise sometimes bi-sexual (gorgeous people only).
      0
    • 5: Dream-wise sometimes bi-sexual. Reality-wise sometimes bi-sexual (gorgeous people only).
      0
    • 5.5: Dream-wise sometimes bi-sexual (gorgeous people only). Reality-wise homosexual.
      0
    • 6: Dream-wise homosexual. Reality-wise homosexual.
      0


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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:52 PM)
I'm not sure what government benefits you have in mind that gays are taking advantage of.  The "benefit" of being singled out for consideration in a possible marriage ban amendment?  The "benefit" of not having to worry about adopting or being a foster parent in most states?  The "benefit" of not being able to access to death benefits of your partner under public pension programs and the federal social security system?  The "benefit" of self-identified gays to be denied the right to serve in the armed services?  Please expound on the government benefits the damn gays are abusing.

 

 

I didn't say enjoying benefits exlusive to gays, and I didn't say abusing, benefits that everyone in the country uses that they would not got in another. I know you are talking more about the marriage factor, but no use in trying to convince me, I believe marriage is defined between a man and a woman, and that's who gets marriage benefits. If you're gay and in America, you're on the short end of the stick, just like if you are single and don't get the benefits or are straight and live with a life long friend, you wouldn't be able to get them without tieing the knot.

 

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:52 PM)
Based on your post, I also gather you think gayness is something that can be readily changed, as opposed to skin color.  Well, I know Michael Jackson is now whiter than me.  And I know there is no evidence supporting reparative or healing and prayer techniques for "fixing" gay people. In fact, the founders of one of the ministries established specifically to 'heal' homosexuals later described their programm as ineffective and conceded that "not one person was healed."

 

 

No, I don't know whether being gay is a choice or something one is born with, but that a black person is in disadvantage if they walk in to an or anything with someone racist. I doubt it's a company's buisness of sexual orientation, and they wouldn't know unless you went and told them or unless you walk into an interview with a gay pride shirt on (exceptions of course, doesn't mean your gay if you support it I suppose), which serves what other person than saying, 'that's right, I'm gay'. But I don't get why you bring up the healing thing, I said I don't have a problem if someone is gay, there's no need to 'fix' anything, I'm a little irked by the feeling that society feels that everyone must support the movement or else they are inhumane. How would the "Gay Games" help legalizing marriage? You want to live your lifestyle, fine by me, (though people would be mad at cannibals or nudists exercising their rights), but I don't have a problem with the current laws, and for those who do, they are not being forced to go across the border where the laws will please them.

 

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:52 PM)
As far as 'just living your life like the rest of us if you don't want controversy'...  There wouldn't be organizations like the NAACP (which you seem to support) if there were not people willing to be controversial in demanding civil rights reform for blacks.  Discrimination based on sexuality will not change unless the discrimination is pointed out and aggressively fought.  That is, by definition, controversial and confrontational.

 

 

Again, bad comparison, for reasons I already brought up. You aren't refused schooling, jobs, etc for being gay and there is no outside 'tell' to it. I see your side, you have your reasons and think discrimination is happening, I don't. And I'm done for tonight, gnite.

 

EDIT: What is the point of the poll? What does that prove? That's the issue I have, the need to point out gay people everywhere they are, who cares? I don't have a problem with them, and they don't want to be discriminated against, but I see gay people having the parades and all the stickers as a way of saying that they think they are different or not normal, which is where I see the hypocricy.

Edited by 3 BeWareTheNewSox 5

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LTBONL

Listen to Billy Ocean No Lesbians.

 

Its a charity based organiztion out of Topeka Kansas. I think Paul Pierce is a member. Its pretty cool. Thier symbol is a picture of Greg Ostertag with his arm around Billy

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I've added a poll. I think I've out done Kinsey in this scale because I separate dream from reality. Dream & fantasize go hand in hand. Reality is self-explanatory.

 

For those of you who have seen the movie "Man of the House" (Texas Longhorn Cheerleaders with big chests) I want you to imagine for one second these girls turning out to be dudes. Because I kid you not there are such people living in Japan.

 

As for those who are asking what's the point of the poll Kinsey suggested that the majority of persons would fall between 2-5 & that bi-sexuals would be the norm.

Are you not even the least bit curious to find out if his belief fits SOXTALK at least?

 

I've updated what I remember of his scale to reflect the modern world in which virtual reality is on the horizon. What most people would feel ashamed to admit or experience in reality might become the escape in a virtual world.

 

If you haven't guessed it yet there's a strong asian influence that's acted upon my life. It's nearly as strong as my American one. Japan is a much more open-thinking society. Some of it is rubbing off on America in the VG industry. Consider how many male targeted games feature female heroines. Lara Croft, DOA. All of that is driven by the duality of male-female personalities in all of us. Right now it's all action, but in the near future Lara Croft players will become Lara Croft in a virtual world. That's really going to be a mind-f*** for some people. The rest of us will take it in stride as we are both open & prepared for such changes in society.

 

Having read that you'll probably never thing of your big breasted super-heroine VG's the same way again :D

Edited by JUGGERNAUT

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QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 11:21 PM)
I've added a poll.  I think I've out done Kinsey in this scale because I separate dream from reality.  Dream & fantasize go hand in hand.  Reality is self-explanatory. 

 

For those of you who have seen the movie "Man of the House" (Texas Longhorn Cheerleaders with big chests) I want you to imagine for one second these girls turning out to be dudes.  Because I kid you not there are such people living in Japan.

 

better pick a movie at least 3 Americans have seen to use as an example :P

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QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:21 PM)
As for those who are asking what's the point of the poll Kinsey suggested that the majority of persons would fall between 2-5 & that bi-sexuals would be the norm.

Are you not even the least bit curious to find out if his belief fits SOXTALK at least?

One point I would raise is that there's really no good reason to trust Kinsey's methodology.

 

I say this as a defender of his...he did his work 50 years ago in a field that didn't exist at the time. His methods were basically whatever he could think of. But just like alchemists, Kinsey really had no one to compare with where he could say "my method works better and here's why".

 

Kinsey's 7-10% estimate came about in part because of selection biases in his sample, things like interviewing too many convicts, etc.

 

Kinsey is important because he was the first person to really pay attention to human sexuality as a topic for research. He broke a taboo. That is his biggest contribution.

 

Beyond that, he did some work that still probably stands some scrutiny. But he did a significant amount of work that has been replaced by better methods, better statistics, better techniques, and so on.

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Between Juggernaut's attempt to bore all the interest out of this topic and that other dude's Billy Ocean fetish - this could be the funniest thread I've read in a week.

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QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Aug 12, 2005 -> 12:15 AM)
EDIT: What is the point of the poll? What does that prove?

 

 

There isn't one.

 

Nothing... it's just the thread starters round about way of bashing those who are different.

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Btw, I don't think of myself as normal or not... I just think of myself as me.

 

Oh yeah, gay pride events might have a lot to do with a lot of people who are gblt, run the risk of getting beaten for who they are, run the risk of getting fired for who they are, denied housing, custody of their children, hospital visitation rights with their partners, the ability to have their partnerships recognized, and lose their family - just for being WHO they are. So they might want to hang out, let loose and be proud of who they are for once.

 

As for science, I'm pretty sure I didn't choose who I am. I'm pretty sure I didn't choose who you are. And I'm pretty sure that I don't care why. You are what you are. Period.

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QUOTE(winodj @ Aug 12, 2005 -> 08:10 AM)
Btw, I don't think of myself as normal or not...

 

Don't worry. We don't think of you as normal either. :P

 

I did note, however, that Ozzie did at least show some restraint by not saying, 'Here, this is my friend. He's a COFFEE TABLE LICKER!! :D

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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Aug 12, 2005 -> 08:15 AM)
Don't worry.  We don't think of you as normal either.  :P

 

I did note, however, that Ozzie did at least show some restraint by not saying, 'Here, this is my friend.  He's a COFFEE TABLE LICKER!!  :D

 

 

QUOTE(winodj @ Aug 12, 2005 -> 08:49 AM)
That's more like it. Although, I am taking steps to work that issue out.

 

It's a four leg program.

 

Close this thread now, because it doesn't get any better than this.

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One point I would raise is that there's really no good reason to trust Kinsey's methodology.

 

I say this as a defender of his...he did his work 50 years ago in a field that didn't exist at the time.  His methods were basically whatever he could think of.  But just like alchemists, Kinsey really had no one to compare with where he could say "my method works better and here's why".

 

Kinsey's 7-10% estimate came about in part because of selection biases in his sample, things like interviewing too many convicts, etc.

 

Kinsey is important because he was the first person to really pay attention to human sexuality as a topic for research.  He broke a taboo.  That is his biggest contribution.

 

Beyond that, he did some work that still probably stands some scrutiny.  But he did a significant amount of work that has been replaced by better methods, better statistics, better techniques, and so on.

 

The 7-10% figure though as held true to today. I think you have to draw a line in the sand on his work. He traveled across America to interview many 1000's from both urban & rural areas to tabulate his findings on his first two books : Male Sexuality & Female Sexuality. It's the last book that is what wrecked his reputation : Adolescent Sexuality. The bulk of that data came from pedophiles of the worst kind imaginable.

 

Anyways if you want to learn more:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Bisexuality

0 - 100% heterosexual, 6 - 100% homosexual

1 - incidental homosexual attraction, 5 - incidental heterosexual attraction

2 - mostly heterosexual, some homo, 4 - mostly homosexual, some hetero

3 - 100% bi-sexual

 

Kinsey reported that most American men fell in the 1-2 range. One criticism of his study was that it was underfinanced to where the incentive to come forward was not great enough to attract people from the norm. In otherwords he basically attracted ONLY people who were both curious & open to the study to begin with.

 

http://www.americonservative.com/Reisman_Kinsey.htm

An interesting perspective on his work. I think the problem with people is that they take extreme positions on his work. The left tries to view it as law of human nature & the right tries to condemn it as heresy. If you take a middle-ground viewpoint you can conclude that yes his screening process probably didn't reflect the norm & attracted fringe groups but there is still value in the data in that these fringe groups existed in all regions of the country. So if nothing else you can conclude that though they are small in numbers they are still spread all over America.

 

I totally discredit his work in adolescent sexuality. In my opinion he became obsessed with his work at that point in his life. He never should have gone there.

We did not have a need to know. The inclusion of sex education at a 3rd-5th grade level in our school system is not something we needed.

 

At some time during the publishing of his books he referred to those rating a 0 on his scale as homophobics. It was a sign he was under heavy stress.

Edited by JUGGERNAUT

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