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tony72
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If the White Sox lost the division, but still won the wild card - would you consider that a collapse?

 

I personally would not. If the Sox won 96 games and the Indians 97 - but the Sox still made the playoffs, I would consider that a success.

 

I would be happy with the wild card and seeing October baseball.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 23, 2005 -> 08:10 PM)
To have a 15 game lead and lose the division is a major collapse and failure.

 

If we're going to end up losing the division I'd like to win the wild card just so we can get in but I would not be happy about it.

yes. the record books also suggest that it would be a collapse losing the division, a record setting collapse. I want the Sox playing in October but not on the wrong foot.

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I don't know why, but all season I would do this weird math in my head, "If the sox play .500 from this point...." So when the sox were 40-12 (I don't know that they ever were, but for example), I'd say they have 110 games left. 55-55 gives them 95 wins for the season and virtually assures them a spot in the playoffs. They were on this pace all season, but I can't believe it's actually come to this. Anyone else do this? :bang

 

Thank God for Jose Contreras tonight. At least BMac and Jose are stepping up at the right time.

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QUOTE(Middle Buffalo @ Sep 23, 2005 -> 11:31 PM)
I don't know why, but all season I would do this weird math in my head, "If the sox play .500 from this point...."  So when the sox were 40-12 (I don't know that they ever were, but for example), I'd say they have 110 games left.  55-55 gives them 95 wins for the season and virtually assures them a spot in the playoffs.  They were on this pace all season, but I can't believe it's actually come to this.  Anyone else do this? :bang

 

Thank God for Jose Contreras tonight.  At least BMac and Jose are stepping up at the right time.

 

95 wins and the Sox miss the playoffs.

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QUOTE(Ozzie Montana @ Sep 23, 2005 -> 08:32 PM)
yes.  the record books also suggest that it would be a collapse losing the division, a record setting collapse.  I want the Sox playing in October but not on the wrong foot.

The record books have little to say about the wild card since it's such a recent invention, but numerically since nobody has evey been 15 games out and then coughed up the division it would be historic regardles of our getting the wild card.

 

My view is more pragmatic than it being a failure to get in the back door versus the front door, because I would be elated if we were in teh Indians' shoes and surged at the end to grabd teh wild card. The fact is that our slide and pathetic play is indicitive of a team that is not firing on too many cylinders (sp?) which doesn't bode well for postseason play regardless of how we got in.

 

That said, the conventional wisdom that anything can happen in short series' is what still gives me hope. I believe we are capable of getting in (by hook or crook), catching a little fire, and going deep into October.

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QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2005 -> 06:29 AM)
Technically it probably is a collapse, but making the playoffs is the goal, so let the Cubs fans laugh at a collapse that still has a team in the playoffs. I'd take that collapse any year. If Buerhle, Garland and Garcia would throw the ball like BMac and Contreras the wild card wouldn't come into play.

True, but by that logic then Cub fans can let Sox fans laugh at a collapse by a team that got to Game 7 of the NLCS in 2003.

To me, it looks like more of a collapse than it is. If the Indians hadn't gotten white-hot, then the Sox playing sub-.500 ball wouldn't be as glaring as it is now.

BUT....

the last 2 weeks have been a throat-grab of the worst kind.

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QUOTE(The Critic @ Sep 24, 2005 -> 07:24 AM)
True, but by that logic then Cub fans can let Sox fans laugh at a collapse by a team that got to Game 7 of the NLCS in 2003.

To me, it looks like more of a collapse than it is. If the Indians hadn't gotten white-hot, then the Sox playing sub-.500 ball wouldn't be as glaring as it is now.

BUT....

the last 2 weeks have been a throat-grab of the worst kind.

No, we laugh because that choke cost them a trip to the World Series, they already were in the NLCS. The Sox collapse if they still won the Wild Card only cost home field. I work with Cub fans, and one of them told me if the Sox won the wild card and won the World Series he still thinks its a bigger choke than the 1969 Cubs. He thinks nobody will mention 1969 again, and he was quite giddy about it. He's a good guy, but he is a total fool when it comes to this. BTW, all that BS that Cub fans don't care about the Sox is just that. They are burning phone lines and emails praying for a total collapse.

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If this team finished with 95 or 96 wins, after holding a 15 game lead on Aug 1st,and fails to win the division it's more of an indicator of the quality of the team that surpasses them in the standings than a White Sox choke. The 10spot on cnnsi had top 10 collapses and every one of them talked about horrendous (.500 since the break isn't horrendous) losing streaks, just handing the division to the other team. If any other second place team outside of CLE were in the ALCent, we'd have this thing wrapped up easily.

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QUOTE(BamaDoc @ Sep 24, 2005 -> 07:18 AM)
If we got in as the wild card, I think how it would be viewed would totally depend on how we did in the playoffs.  World Series  no problem!  Swept in first round.....COLLAPSE!

 

I feel the same. If the Sox won the Wild Card and then went on, GREAT!! Who would care? If the Sox don't do well, that would be viewed as a terrible collapse, one of historic porpotions.

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Two different things. Yes, they collapsed on the division lead. No they didn't collapse on the WC lead. Now if they collapse on both leads, now we have some bragging rights, and could be the media darlings for years to come. We could be the Red Sox and Cubs all rolled into one. You want coverage? We'd have coverage.

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QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Sep 24, 2005 -> 07:55 AM)
If this team finished with 95 or 96 wins, after holding a 15 game lead on Aug 1st,and fails to win the division it's more of an indicator of the quality of the team that surpasses them in the standings than a White Sox choke.  The 10spot on cnnsi had top 10 collapses and every one of them talked about horrendous (.500 since the break isn't horrendous) losing streaks, just handing the division to the other team.  If any other second place team outside of CLE were in the ALCent, we'd have this thing wrapped up easily.

Great post. The Sox haven't played well for a while but they're also not playing .350 ball like people said they had to do to be caught. Everyone of us was saying "if the sox play .500 ball they're in," well they've been playing .500 ball problem is that Cleveland doesn't lose. If the sox finish with 95-96 wins it's kind of hard to consider it a collapse.

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If the Sox make the playoffs via the Wild Card, and lose in the first round of the playoffs....it still shouldn't be considered a big collapse. First, you play the season to make the playoffs. Second, the Indians are on an incredible streak and are playing about as well as any team has in a handful of years. Finally, it's not like the Sox are a 200 million dollar team that just blows away the opposition with their talent.

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