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I love Bobby, but he needs to find and go with something offspeed. I don't care how good your fastball is, if that's all you're throwing, it will eventually get hit. Especially if the same hitters see it on back to back nights.

Has he given upon his curve?

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QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:20 AM)
I love Bobby, but he needs to find and go with something offspeed.  I don't care how good your fastball is, if that's all you're throwing, it will eventually get hit.    Especially if the same hitters see it on back to back nights.

Has he given upon his curve?

Now here's a conversation. He looked like s*** tonight. Bad location, speed down 4-5 mph from last night.

 

Last night was all adenaline. Tonight, he was tight and nervous.

 

I agree, he HAS to mix in his breaking ball. But the thing is, I think he's pretty much trusting AJ to get him through the hitters.

 

We'll see Jenks one more time I think - because he'll have a couple of days to recover. But I'll be shocked if we see him in back to back situations again in this series.

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QUOTE(kapkomet @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:22 AM)
Now here's a conversation.  He looked like s*** tonight.  Bad location, speed down 4-5 mph from last night.

 

Last night was all adenaline.  Tonight, he was tight and nervous. 

 

I agree, he HAS to mix in his breaking ball.  But the thing is, I think he's pretty much trusting AJ to get him through the hitters. 

 

We'll see Jenks one more time I think - because he'll have a couple of days to recover.  But I'll be shocked if we see him in back to back situations again in this series.

 

Agreed, he needs to bring out that NASTY hook more often. Last night he spoke about not wanting to go to the offspeed stuff because the pitches weren't breaking properly in the pen. He threw the one hook after getting in the game and it was perfectly located and broke what looked to be about 14".

 

I think that speed gun was off tonight. Buerhle never went above like 89, nor did Pettitte. Cliff was clocked at 91 or so. The only guy that looked accurate was Lidge at 95-97, but I could swear he could reach 98 consistently.

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Did he even throw one hammer tonight? He only threw one in Game 1 but it struck the guy out. Is he too nervous to throw it for fear of hanging it?

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QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:27 AM)
Did he even throw one hammer tonight?  He only threw one in Game 1 but it struck the guy out.  Is he too nervous to throw it for fear of hanging it?

 

I think the one in the dirt was a hook, showed 89 on the gun.

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Even if doesn't feel like his hook is on, he still has to throw it. At least throw it out of the zone, so it doesn't get killed, but throw it. You never know, they might chase it, every strike counts.

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Even if doesn't feel like his hook is on, he still has to throw it.  At least throw it out of the zone, so it doesn't get killed, but throw it.  You never know, they might chase it, every strike counts.

Yes, he does need to just throw it. He must be afraid of hanging it. 100 MPH fastballs are very tough to hit but when Jenks gets tired and that MPH starts decreasing a bit and the Astros know that he is going to keep pounding fastballs, it gets easier to hit. He needs to throw the hammer to keep the batters on their toes and not knowing what is coming.

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agreed, i commented on it during the game.

His curve is just as hard to hit as his fastball, use both.

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I know he's been trying to work in a cutter, but I hope they teach him a changeup like they did with B-Mac down in Charlotte, and we all saw the results of that.

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I have no idea what Ozzie is going to do in a save situation. I could see him using Cotts just as easily as showing faith in his closer, actually.

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QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Oct 23, 2005 -> 11:41 PM)
I know he's been trying to work in a cutter, but I hope they teach him a changeup like they did with B-Mac down in Charlotte, and we all saw the results of that.

The f***in cutter he throws is nasty. Anyways, I agree he should use the curve a bit more, the pitch to bagwell wasn't that bad and the pitch to vizcaino was right there for him to hit and he hit it, the thing that gets bobby in trouble also is sometimes he's to around the plate if that makes sense. The pitch to bagwell wasn't horrible but it was down, if Bobby gets his heater at the letters most of the time he won't be touched. Closers have nights like this, he'll shake it off and get right back out there.

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I remember earlier in the year, he bounced every curve ball for like 2 games straight, so maybe he's afraid of a costly wild pitch. As long as he mixes in the hook and keeps it high and keeps the fastball high as well, he should be fine. I'm drunk and repeating myself and I'm drunk..

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QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 12:36 AM)
I'm not saying he should be the closer, actually I think he never should have lost the job, but we better see Dustin Hermanson in a damn game soon.

I would have been ok with seeing Hermy tonight and I'm not just saying that in hindsight.

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QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:47 AM)
I remember earlier in the year, he bounced every curve ball for like 2 games straight, so maybe he's afraid of a costly wild pitch.    As long as he mixes in the hook and keeps it high and keeps the fastball high as well, he should be fine.  I'm drunk and repeating myself and I'm drunk..

:lol: :headbang

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I agree with the consensus of the thread. No pitcher, I don't care who you are or how hard you throw, can get by just throwing one pitch. Not consistently anyway. But I'm not worried about Bobby. Before last night, he had been absolutely money for the last month or so. If we've got the lead in the 9th again, I want to see Bobby out there.

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I thought Jenks was the weakest link going into the playoffs, and nothing has changed my mind. He can be great or crap. He was playing in AA a few months back for a reason. I think Oz has created Jenks and is getting more out of him than anyone could imagine.

 

Jenks + Ozzie = Fridge Perry + Dikta

 

The one defense I have for Jenks is the umpire squeezed him during the 9th. I think if the ump had not blown the call on Dye, the strike zone would have been bigger. It may not have been a conscious decision by the plate umpire, but I don't think we'll get many close plays the rest of the way.

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You guys are unreal. The kid has one bad game and there's already "well, maybe he shouldn't be the closer" talk. Get a job at ESPN if you're into knee-jerk reactions. I'm sure Bobby's going to be just fine next time out.

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QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 08:37 AM)
You guys are unreal. The kid has one bad game and there's already "well, maybe he shouldn't be the closer" talk. Get a job at ESPN if you're into knee-jerk reactions. I'm sure Bobby's going to be just fine next time out.

 

It isn't one bad outing. He is 6/8 in save opportunities and 1-1 W-L record. .750 save percentage isn't exactly lights out. I think there are good reasons to be wary of a kid who was just called up from AA a few months ago, and is now closing in the World Series. Especially one with checkered history of not always having his head screwed on straight. I'd be very surprised if this isn't the biggest discussion in Ozzie's office today and tomorrow,

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I think AJ needs to call for the hook if they want the kid to throw it.

If he tries to shake the call, call it again. Shakes it again, call it AGAIN until he asks him to come to the mound to talk, then TELL him to throw it.

In Jenks' defense, Vizcaino had a slap-swing in mind, he just wanted to get a bat on it, and he did. I put that 2nd run on Scott, because he had the ball before Burke ever hit 3rd base. You HAVE to throw that guy out if you're charging in and the guy's just touching 3rd.

Thankfully, Scott turned the goat horns into angel wings.

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Bobby is fine...He didn't come in there tossing cookies. The plate did shrink a bit there in the 9th and he is a lot more effective when he has a strike on a batter. He did lose a bit of velocity, but dam people, it was cold and wet. He will be bringing it in Houston if giving the chance. He may be a rookie, but he has shown he can handle the pressure.

 

Bagwell is no slouch. He saw 6 pitches the night before and hit a single in the 6th pitch of his at bat last night. Then Bobby K's Lane and walks Burke on four straight pitches, a couple of questionable balls to say the least. Then Ausmus with that god dam squibbler which moves up the runners. That was just some bad luck. He made a great pitch. If its hit anywhere else, inning over or at the least the runners don't both advance. Bobby wants to get ahead on Vizcaino so he throws a strike and Vizcaino hits it. s*** happens, but I don't think it was a bad outing by Bobby and I definitely don't think we should switch it up and look for Dustin to close now. Bobby has got the stuff....physically and mentally!!

 

The only thing I didn't like was giving Viz a good pitch to hit. I understand why he did it, but a pinch hitter is almost always swinging at the first pitch. Use that to your advantage and throw something out of the zone.

Edited by Controlled Chaos

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QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 08:46 AM)
It isn't one bad outing. He is 6/8 in save opportunities and 1-1 W-L record. .750 save percentage isn't exactly lights out. I think there are good reasons to be wary of a kid who was just called up from AA a few months ago, and is now closing in the World Series. Especially one with checkered history of not always having his head screwed on straight.  I'd be very surprised if this isn't the biggest discussion in Ozzie's office today and tomorrow,

 

I'd think, given how he has managed all year, that this isn't even a discussion and Jenks will be out there next time there's a save opp.

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