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http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/JAK202252.htm

 

Indonesia boosts security after girls beheaded

30 Oct 2005 06:14:29 GMT

 

By Ade Rina and Tomi Soetjipto

 

JAKARTA, Oct 30 (Reuters) - Indonesian police beefed up security patrols on Sunday in the Poso area, plagued by sectarian violence for years, after mysterious assailants in black beheaded three teenage Christian girls.

 

Six machete-wielding men attacked the 16 to 19-year-old students as they were walking to their school on Saturday on Indonesia's eastern island of Sulawesi, police said.

 

Police official Made Rai said about 1,000 police, including reinforcements from other parts of the country, were securing the remote regency of Poso, with more than 300 additional officers expected to arrive on Sunday.

 

"We are still investigating. So far no witness has been questioned and no suspect arrested," Rai told Reuters by telephone from Poso, about 1,500 km (900 miles) northeast of capital Jakarta. One student survived and had described the attack.

 

Muslim-Christian clashes in the Poso area killed 2,000 people from 1998 through 2001, when a peace deal was agreed.

 

While the worst violence abated after the deal, there have been sporadic outbreaks since. Bombings in May in the Christian town of Tentena killed 22 people.

 

The three headless bodies of the girls, dressed in brown uniforms, were left at the site of the attack. Their heads were found at separate locations two hours later by residents.

 

Din Syamsuddin, leader of Indonesia's second-largest Muslim group Muhammadiyah, warned of more violence in Poso if police do not catch the perpetrators soon.

 

"Similar murders are likely to occur in the future because there are some parties wishing communal conflict to flare up," Din Syamsuddin was quoted as saying by Indonesia's official news agency Antara.

 

On Sunday reports of the killings were featured across the front pages of virtually all Indonesian newspapers.

 

Leading daily Media Indonesia splashed a headline across its front page saying "Barbaric!" and the Muslim-oriented Republika daily devoted its full front page to the incident.

 

On Sunday television news showed wailing and distraught relatives of the dead students looking at their bodies in coffins.

 

The girls' bodies, their heads re-attached, were in flowing white gowns, their hands holding bouquets.

 

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has condemned the killings, which he described as "sadist and inhuman crimes".

 

About 85 percent of Indonesia's 220 million people are Muslim. But in some eastern parts, Christian and Muslim populations are about equal.

 

Most Indonesian Muslims are moderates, but there has been an increasingly active militant minority in recent years.

 

Religious and communal tensions in areas like Poso have been aggravated by a transmigration policy in which for decades large numbers of people from Indonesia's most crowded areas like Java, mostly Muslim, moved to places that had been largely Christian.

 

In addition to religion the newcomers often have cultural and language differences with locals. Politicians and security forces have sometimes been charged with exploiting the differences for their own ends, adding to the potential for violence.

 

Another bold step for the Religion of Peace. I guess little catholic school girls are a big threat to Allah. They must have the same catholic school girl dreams as I do!

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Don't make me dig up the research I did when 2K5 got an anti-Muslim e-mail that shows that radical Christians can do the same, if not worse, crazy s*** in the past decades and into the current era.

 

Organized fundamentalist religions -- the cause of the world's problems. You're never going to turn on a TV and hear the anchor say "Today the atheists suffered heavy shelling and large amounts of casualties from the agnostic forces in the north."

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Dig up all you want. I am to the point I just don't care. Heard the stories about places in England that can't have piggy banks, because it might offend Muslims? Well then, stay in your own backwards-ass land where you can live in a pigless society. Or the movie about comedy in a muslim world that isn't ebing madenow because of protests? Sure, people protested the Passion of the Christ, but it still got made. Seems noone was worried about wacko Christians blowing up the studio in response. They come to the US and demand religious tolerance, but do not tolerate others. Kind nof a do-as-I-say, not-as - do approach to things. Yes, you have some wacko right to lifers who blow up abortion clinics and shoot doctors. You don't have the Pope preaching genocide to all non-believers. I am thru being tolerant. They can all kiss my ass, right after I rub some bacon on it.

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QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Oct 30, 2005 -> 06:29 PM)
Dig up all you want.  I am to the point I just don't care.  Heard the stories about places in England that can't have piggy banks, because it might offend Muslims?  Well then, stay in your own backwards-ass land where you can live in a pigless society. Or the movie about comedy in a muslim world that isn't ebing madenow because of protests?  Sure, people protested the Passion of the Christ, but it still got made.  Seems noone was worried about wacko Christians blowing up the studio in response.  They come to the US and demand religious tolerance, but do not tolerate others.  Kind nof a do-as-I-say, not-as - do approach to things. Yes, you have some wacko right to lifers who blow up abortion clinics and shoot doctors.  You don't have the Pope preaching genocide to all non-believers.  I am thru being tolerant.  They can all kiss my ass, right after I rub some bacon on it.

We've had plenty of Popes saying that we need to eradicate Muslims. Hell, we've got different congregations preaching that it is okay to attack homosexuals because they're unclean.

 

Let's change Muslim to Christian and take some examples: if you want to talk about evangelical Christians protesting things they didn't like, look no further than exhibit A: Lenny Bruce. Or how about arresting Larry Flynt for publishing Hustler? Or my personal favorite right now, using the Patriot Act to go after the porn industry.

 

I've got whacko-right-to-lifers murdering people, white supremacists and religious fundamentalists going into synagogues and slaughtering people.

 

That's the thing...EVERY RELIGION does this sort of s***. Fundamentalist zealots destroy the concepts for every sane, rational thinking person. So don't make it into a Muslim vs everybody else frame. Make it into a "sane, rational member of a society" vs fundamentalist zealots frame so you're really all inclusive of hacks of all religions instead of really coming off as a partisan hack.

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QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 12:38 AM)
We've had plenty of Popes saying that we need to eradicate Muslims.  Hell, we've got different congregations preaching that it is okay to attack homosexuals because they're unclean.

 

Let's change Muslim to Christian and take some examples: if you want to talk about evangelical Christians protesting things they didn't like, look no further than exhibit A: Lenny Bruce.  Or how about arresting Larry Flynt for publishing Hustler?  Or my personal favorite right now, using the Patriot Act to go after the porn industry.

 

I've got whacko-right-to-lifers murdering people, white supremacists and religious fundamentalists going into synagogues and slaughtering people.

 

That's the thing...EVERY RELIGION does this sort of s***.  Fundamentalist zealots destroy the concepts for every sane, rational thinking person.  So don't make it into a Muslim vs everybody else frame.  Make it into a "sane, rational member of a society" vs fundamentalist zealots frame so you're really all inclusive of hacks of all religions instead of really coming off as a partisan hack.

I am very inclusive of all the hacks. I want the abortion clinic bombers locked up for a long time. And nice way to change the gist of my post. Were the Christians gong to blow up Larry Flynt's house for publishing porn? No. Did the Pope mark Lenny Bruce for assassination? No. Did the Christians call for a jihad and to behead every purveyor of porn that can be found? No. See, people aren't afraid of offending Christians, because more than likely, they will not be killed for doing so. Sure, some fringe lunitic group might stage a boycott or something, but that is usually where it stays. Look at a Muslim crosseyed and the whole damn community is up in arms and some perceived slight to their religion as a whole. All it takes is for one rumor, real or otherwise, about something an American supposedly did to a Muslim that was wrong, and Muslims around the world are up in arms about it. Take your burning bodies story. Why would a Muslim in Indonesia even care about it. Why is there this bond thru religion that can't seem to be penetrated by any sense of rationality? Why could many Muslins not bring themselves to condemn the various acts of terrorism committed in the name of their own religion? I as a Christian can firmly say that I hink the abortion clinic bombers and doctor killers are scum and should be put away for a very long time. The fact that we share a religion has no meaning to me.

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Even France, one of their biggest defenders, is not immune to the Religion of Peace. Good thing for the frogs they stopped then before it was too late. I wonder what type of interegation they used on the Jordanian?

 

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtm.../29/wterr29.xml

 

Terror cell 'smuggled missiles into Europe'

By Henry Samuel in Paris

(Filed: 29/10/2005)

 

An Islamic terror cell has smuggled two surface-to-air missiles into Europe in a plot to shoot down planes at one of France's main airports, it was claimed yesterday.

 

French and Algerian extremists with links to al-Qa'eda bought the Russian SA-18 Grouse missiles from Chechens in 2002 and smuggled them via Georgia and Turkey, according to French anti-terror sources quoted in Le Figaro.

 

Both missiles and several of the extremists are reportedly still at large.

 

French anti-terrorism investigators learned of the missile terror plan while interrogating a Jordanian al-Qa'eda operative close to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of the Islamic terror group in Iraq.

 

Adnan Muhammad Sadik, alias Abu Atiya, is now being held by the Jordanian authorities.

 

He is believed to have been al-Qa'eda's chief in the Caucasus and responsible for training foreign "holy warriors" - many of whom returned to their countries of origin to set up sleeper cells.

 

According to Abu Atiya, one such group, the so-called "Chechen network", returned to France with the missiles and chemical and biological agents such as botulin, ricin and cyanide.

 

Some of its members had allegedly been involved in a plan to explode a bomb during a Christmas market in Strasbourg in 2000.

 

Others were linked to a conspiracy to blow up Los Angeles airport in 1999.

 

In 2002 the group wavered between attacking a symbolic target such as Russia's embassy in Paris, to punish its Chechen policies, or a higher profile location, such as the Eiffel Tower.

 

Before homing in on a preferred target, most of the group was arrested in a swoop by the French terrorist brigade, the DST, in two Paris suburbs late in 2002. But some escaped.

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When the Islamic world catches up to the Western world in development and then continues to kill more than Christians then maybe there will be some evidence.

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QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 03:11 AM)
When the Islamic world catches up to the Western world in development and then continues to kill more than Christians then maybe there will be some evidence.

What are you smoking? Some evidence of what? Evidence that they think all infidels should be killed? That means you, you know, unless you bow down to Mecca your required 5 times a day. Evidence that they are intolerant of other religions? Why do you thik those Catholic school gorls got their heads chopped off? Oh wait, it was Bush's fault! You do have one thing right, though, they Do need to catch up to the rest of the world and get out of the 14th century.

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QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Oct 30, 2005 -> 10:21 PM)
What are you smoking?  Some evidence of what?  Evidence that they think all infidels should be killed?  That means you, you know, unless you bow down to Mecca your required 5 times a day. Evidence that they are intolerant of other religions?  Why do you thik those Catholic school gorls got their heads chopped off?  Oh wait, it was Bush's fault!  You do have one thing right, though, they Do need to catch up to the rest of the world and get out of the 14th century.

 

 

Evidence that somehow people of one religion are more violent than the other.

 

I have a hard time finding something about Islam that's inherently more violent or ruthless than Christianity. People kill people, religion doesn't kill people, and a less developed or educated people are more likely to behave barbarically.

 

the world's second-largest religion.

 

...

 

In Arabic, Islām derives from the three-letter root S-L-M reflecting the meaning "to be in peaceful submission; to surrender; to obey; peace".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

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QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 07:15 AM)
Evidence that somehow people of one religion are more violent than the other. 

 

I have a hard time finding something about Islam that's inherently more violent or ruthless than Christianity.  People kill people, religion doesn't kill people, and a less developed or educated people are more likely to behave barbarically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

Do you have relative that works at Wikipedia? That seems to be about all you reference. And since it is a free online encyclopedia that ANYONE CAN EDIT, maybe not always the most reliable source. And what part about killing infidels to you not understand? What part of the iranian religious leaders calling for the destruction of israel and all the other non-believers do you not get?

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I wonder how often we blame a religion for the acts of criminals. Pick up the Tribune or Sun-Times and look at the crime stories, if we started reporting their religion, would it be accurate? Christian drug dealer arrested. Jewish City Official Indited. We are assuming that all of these crimes are done for religious reasons. Could it be that they are criminals? We toss around these labels and accept them as fact. If Gacy was baptized, would we call him a Christian serial murderer? I don't think religion had anything to do with Gacy's crimes, and I wonder if religion has anything to do with some of these.

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It's just a good thing the Christians had Hitler batting clean-up for them, or else some day the Islamist extremists might some day catch up to them in the body count contest.

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QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Oct 30, 2005 -> 06:19 PM)
Don't make me dig up the research I did when 2K5 got an anti-Muslim e-mail that shows that radical Christians can do the same, if not worse, crazy s*** in the past decades and into the current era.

 

Organized fundamentalist religions -- the cause of the world's problems.  You're never going to turn on a TV and hear the anchor say "Today the atheists suffered heavy shelling and large amounts of casualties from the agnostic forces in the north."

 

 

No, atheists and agnostics are much more sneakier. They'll invent television networks like MTV and tell our children they have to like certain things and dress certain ways in order to be "cool." They'll make us feel bad for having convictions against things like abortion and homosexuality, but then treat us with similar disdain. And the columbine massacre, compliments of atheists, was portrayed by the media as a failure of the movie and video game industry to protect children from their products and not parents protecting their kids from those industry's products.

 

Me thinks the idea that atheism, which claims there are no Gods except money and power, seems to to be quite organized itself in the form of popular culture. We just call it different things and pass blame eslewhere as to protect the organization.

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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 08:55 AM)
It's just a good thing the Christians had Hitler batting clean-up for them, or else some day the Islamist extremists might some day catch up to them in the body count contest.

 

 

The difference being that every major Christian organization, sect, denomination speaks out vehemently against Hitler's actions, while the muslim world continues to be silent.

 

For a smart guy, Jim, you're a **** ***.

 

This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you. Tex

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QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 10:07 AM)
The difference being that every major Christian organization, sect, denomination speaks out vehemently against Hitler's actions, while the muslim world continues to be silent.

 

For a smart guy, Jim, you're a dumb ass.

It's an erroneous statement to say that the Muslim world remains silent in the face of Islamist extremist violence.

 

The majority of Indonesian Muslims are still moderates despite the recent influx of fundamentalists. The majority of Muslims globally are moderates who have been vocal in their outrage over the hijacking of their peaceful religion by extremists.

 

All you fundamentalists scare me, regardless of which side you're on or what particular form of myopia your distorted representation of God suffers from.

 

(That last sentence would have been respectfully omitted, of course, had you shown any similar capacity for restraint).

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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 09:30 AM)
It's an erroneous statement to say that the Muslim world remains silent in the face of Islamist extremist violence.

 

The majority of Indonesian Muslims are still moderates despite the recent influx of fundamentalists.  The majority of Muslims globally are moderates who have been vocal in their outrage over the hijacking of their peaceful religion by extremists.

 

All you fundamentalists scare me, regardless of which side you're on or what particular form of myopia your distorted representation of God suffers from.

 

(That last sentence would have been respectfully omitted, of course, had you shown any similar capacity for restraint).

 

It's an erroneous and a dumb ass statement to say that Hitler "batted clean-up" for Christians. please.

 

Fudementalists want things to be the way they used to be with no regard to the culture around them, that's not me in the slightest. While I desire to return to a community/familial based society that puts emphasis on the greater good rather than the individual, I take into consideration the people around me and "their story" because the individual is much more important in recent decades.

 

Your distorted representation of Christians make all us suffer.

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Things are done in the name of religion that would make the God/Deity/Concept being worship cry in disgust. No group is immune, I think we've tossed out enough examples of that. What surprises me is how intelligent people can take a small number of people and extrapolate to a conclusion that all members think that way, or even a majority think that way. I don't believe that is fair, accurate, or helps to make the world a better, safer place.

 

Universally, mankind is trying to create a planet that fits their view of what a utopia society would be. PA has a vision which would eliminate a lot of popular culture. EvilMonkey has a vision that would wipe out a religion. Jim has a vision that would eliminate religion as unnecessary. I know those aren't 100% accurate, look at the point.

 

Those visions are made bigger when they can be attached to a bigger group. If an extremist can latch onto a group and gain a bigger voice, they do. Look at the woman camping outside Crawford. She attached to a bigger group, her message becomes magnified, and viola` she is now speaking for all Dems. We know that isn't accurate, yet that's how our society reacts. The GOPers here automatically challenge the Dems to defend her because she is standing with other Dems.

 

Same concept with religion. Just because someone professes or is born into a faith, doesn't mean they believe it themselves. I could call myself anything, and the media would report it, and some people will take the leap to believe all of that group believes that. I'm an NRA member, but I don't agree with everything the group does. I'm Catholic but I don't agree with everything out of the Vatican. And I am as busy a Boy Scout leader as there is, but I don't agree with every stance there. Why would anyone believe that these murders, rapists, thugs believe 100% of their religion and are motivated by it?

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QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 10:36 AM)
Your distorted representation of Christians make all us suffer.

 

But that is precisely what happens when the horrific, barbaric acts of a minority of Muslims is casually passed off as something mainstream Mislims approve of. It's a distorted rrepresentation of a religion that is at it's heart a religion of peace. Like Christianity. Fringe segments of both denominations defile the core beliefs of their religion to their own twisted ends.

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sox4lifeinPA--

 

I'm flattered you believe that I control the major television networks, but as an atheist, I have nothing but contempt for MTV and its feeble-minded viewers. The infotainment that passes for "news" these days is in the same boat.

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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 03:46 PM)
But that is precisely what happens when the horrific, barbaric acts of a minority of Muslims is casually passed off as something mainstream Mislims approve of.  It's a distorted rrepresentation of a religion that is at it's heart a religion of peace.  Like Christianity.  Fringe segments of both denominations defile the core beliefs of their religion to their own twisted ends.

You really have to search hard to find Muslim groups that will speak out against most of the things that have been done in the name of Allah. And even when they do speak out, they counch their words very carefully, not wanting to risk the wrath of their fellow Muslims.

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QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 03:39 PM)
EvilMonkey has a vision that would wipe out a religion. Jim has a vision that would eliminate religion as unnecessary. I know those aren't 100% accurate, look at the point.

 

If the religion says that i am to be killed because of MY religious beliefs, then yes, I would like to take care of them first. I know not all Muslims share that narrow view of the infidels, but you sure don't hear them much saying so. In reality, no, i am not going out and hunting down Muslims. but i am tired of trying to be 'tolerant' of their beliefs. If they are over here, THEY need to be tolerant of our beliefs.

 

Why would anyone believe that these murders, rapists, thugs believe 100% of their religion and are motivated by it?

Maybe because while doing their deeds they are screaming "Praise be Allah" or some other such phrase at maximum volume?

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QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 10:36 AM)
Your distorted representation of Christians make all us suffer.

 

 

And your distorted representation of atheists -- "Me thinks the idea that atheism, which claims there are no Gods except money and power"-- is typical christian hypocrisy.

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QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 07:41 AM)
Do you have relative that works at Wikipedia?  That seems to be about all you reference.  And since it is a free online encyclopedia that ANYONE CAN EDIT, maybe not always the most reliable source.  And what part about killing infidels to you not understand?  What part of the iranian religious leaders calling for the destruction of israel and all the other non-believers do you not get?

 

Wikipedia is clearly the best source for information on the net, but I always wonder how accurate some of the information is. I simply don't believe that somehow one religion is in nature more 'evil' than the other, no matter how many people trying to pertain to one particular religion act barbarically.

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QUOTE(JHBowden @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 10:49 AM)
sox4lifeinPA--

 

I'm flattered you believe that I control the major television networks, but as an atheist, I have nothing but contempt for MTV and its feeble-minded viewers. The infotainment that passes for "news" these days is in the same boat.

 

 

LOL. And isn't ClearChannel owned by one of Bush's bestest christian buddies? Because all the entertainment they push is supremely pure and wholesome. I have yet to find the phrase "do as I say, not as I do" in the bible, could someone tell me where I would find it?

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