bjmarte Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Well, then you're math is bad to. I'm not going to tell you I'd rather have Jose over Miles, but what you said doesn't make sense. If Jose does not homer. The Sox have 0 runs. If Jose does not make his error, Minnesota has 2 runs. Then again I'm not that smart so who knows. Exactly. I don't care if you like Jose or not he is not the (only) reason this team is sucking. Taking him off or leaving him on alone makes no substantial difference. He's just the last guy to f*** up so he is taking the heat. Admittedly, I like Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Jesus H. Jason, I was just pointing out what you said was not correct. Wasn't saying Jose is the king of short stops. Lol, I've never been a Jose backer and thats well documented. I tried giving him a shot and he still plays like crap. He can't hit a damn curveball and his avg flounders around .250. You can't hit for avg, and your arguably the worse defensive shortstop in the majors (Starting Wise). I don't see a big benefit in playing him. Sometimes people have to forget about their general likes and dislikes of a player and just look at production. Thats what I try to do. Konerko is my favorite player on the Sox, but I'm very much a believer that he should be traded because the Sox overpaid him and well, I fear he could turn into a long term DL type guy and thats not what the Sox need. Find another team looking to up their payroll or add some power while they move into a new park or something along those lines. Heck, the Pirates could use a first baseman right? I doubt we could get Giles with that type of deal but I'm sure they have some good prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Heck, the Pirates could use a first baseman right? I doubt we could get Giles with that type of deal but I'm sure they have some good prospects. Giles has no trade clause to the Sox. Lots of players seem to, not exactly the best situation to come into. Pirates are the s*** though, I'd trade Konerko to the Red Sox, not sure what they'd give back though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Giles has no trade clause to the Sox. Lots of players seem to, not exactly the best situation to come into. Pirates are the s*** though, I'd trade Konerko to the Red Sox, not sure what they'd give back though. Red Sox don't have much prospects what-so-ever other then Freddy Sanchez, an infield prospect. If we could get Trot Nixon for Paul Konerko, I'd call it a done deal. The Sox free up salary room and get a guy that can play any outfield position and adds a lefthanded bat. Then Carlos Lee moves to 1st and we have an outfield of Daubach/Rios, Nixon, and Magglio. Or we could have Lee stay in the outfield with Daubach at first. The lineup would be Jimenez Nixon Frank Magglio Daubach Carlos Lee Jose Crede Catcher If possible I'd love to then swing a deal with Jose Valentin and try to pick up a speedy, talented middle infielder (Preferably a Shortstop). Hell, I love the idea of Nixon for Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 If possible I'd love to then swing a deal with Jose Valentin and try to pick up a speedy, talented middle infielder (Preferably a Shortstop). Maybe someone like Cora, Itzturis, Vazquez? Furcal would be perfect, but getting him is impossible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Jason, for the limited time I've posted on these boards I've known you to be a very knowledgeable person who not only poses interesting arguements on the game but is also able to look into/beyond the numbers....which is why I am short of stunned reading your Jose vs. Jimenez/Miles/winning commentary above. I had no less than 10 posts on this thread alone backing up my opinion in regard to Jose's underrated offense (clutch hitting, Rbi ratio, etc), baserunning (taking extra bases, regulating on base traffic, etc) and a not-as-bad-as-it-seems defense...with actual numbers. I also briefly discussed the intangible off-field leadership skills as irrelevant as they sometimes may be...I hope you read before replying because I am frankly tired of repeating myself. I'll only say this (again): forget about Jose's range, arm, ability to save a run with positioning, nifty DP-turning and other perception-related things that definataly save runs but are hard to "prove" and require actual game-watching.....Jose's "awful" defense that supposedly makes him such a "mediocre" player...has so far cost the Sox a grand total of 3-4 runs and a one loss this Sunday. I've brought up Konerko, Jimenez and Tejada whose fewer lapses brought in MORE runs....if that doesn't translate into clutch defensive performance, I don't know what does. Please enlighten me. (BTW I think you are familiar with the study done in 2000 on this saving/costing runs subject pertaining to Jose versus other SS...so 2003 is not a fluke in that respect. To wit: he makes ton of routine errors in non-critical situations and saves a whole a lot more. Sunday was one of the trule few exeptions, and considering other Sox players did jack squat, blaming Jose for the loss is ridiculous) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 how bout Tejada? 7.5 million after Thomas leaves isn't a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 how bout Tejada? 7.5 million after Thomas leaves isn't a lot. Make that 12 (over many years) if he has an All-star type year this time around. For some reason he is considerered to be a "good" fielding shortstop and his offensive mojo will net him a huge contract. Forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I do. I am tired of the apologists for St JosE6. Get rid of his ass now. He costs us games. He cost us today. We have so many posts that say "the Sox are doing terrible." And then some people keep saying "Jose is a leader." A leader in what? Losing games on a terrible team? Enough is enough is enough. He is leading us nowhere. Get rid of him. We finally agree about a SS on the Sox. It took me a while to get off the JosE-6 band wagon though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Well I still like Jose and I do belive that he is by far our best option at the current time. However if we can get someone better I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I do. I am tired of the apologists for St JosE6. Get rid of his ass now. He costs us games. He cost us today. We have so many posts that say "the Sox are doing terrible." And then some people keep saying "Jose is a leader." A leader in what? Losing games on a terrible team? Enough is enough is enough. He is leading us nowhere. Get rid of him. We finally agree about a SS on the Sox. It took me a while to get off the JosE-6 band wagon though. RPS, there are many SS we can agree on: Aparicio, best BeBe Richard and Luis Alvarado, worst (Royce could only be at best penultimate worst - if you never saw BeBe and Alvarado play, trust me on that) great minds like yours and mind always come around to agreement in time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I can't say that I'm surprised by the strong feelings against Jose - his defense can be ugly, but is he really the biggest weakness on this team? If our offense would live up to its potential (real or imagined), then Jose wouldn't be much of an issue. Like it or not, Schueler and KW have fashioned a 1990's Texas Rangers / Cleveland Indians type team to hit the ball well, play mediocre defense, lack team speed, and have average pitching. When the "O" doesn't work, the team doesn't win. Keep Jose and his leadership intangibles which many of you either do not see or do not feel is important and start cleaning house or benching other players. I'm glad to see that JM is finally mixing up the lineup with lefties and righties; I hope this will continue. Maybe Daubach or Rios aren't the answer, but they deserve a shot. In the meantime, let Jose be what he will be - a career .250 hitter who hits in the clutch, makes errors on some routine plays, but is the ONLY emotional leader the Sox have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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