Yankees & Phillies

[nitetrain8601]

The Rumor Mill has reported that during talks with Centerfeilder Jason Michael's the Yankees may have ran into a blockbuster deal. The deal would involve SP Carl Pavano, C Jorge Posada, and Top Prospect Eric Duncan going to Philly for OF Bobby Abreu and C Mike Lieberthal. This deal if in the works will take a lot of time to do because of the large contracts of Pavano and Posada.

[Steve9347]

holy hell... it would be nice to see posada out of NY... i hate that goofy-nosed bastard!

[maggsmaggs]

Yankees keep trying to get big money players, unload them. Seriously, they need to learn baseball fundamentals on how to build a baseball team. They have no clue. Develope talent, be smart with $$, don't sign injury risk players to multi-year deals worth big $$. It's not hard.

[YASNY]

Yankees keep trying to get big money players, unload them.  Seriously, they need to learn baseball fundamentals on how to build a baseball team.  They have no clue.  Develope talent, be smart with $$, don't sign injury risk players to multi-year deals worth big $$.  It's not hard.

 

The team that has more World Championships than any other in professional sports has "no clue". That's rich.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I probably like this deal better for the Yanks than the Phils. Given money and age Posada- and Liberthal are near a wash with Jorge obviously a bit better. That leaves Duncan/Pavano for Abreu which doesn't seem even to me, even if Abreu makes a ton of money. How long will he last in Centerfield for the Yanks? I don't buy that he'd be terribly good there. He would be an offensive force as usual though. Pavano? Eh. Not too optimistic on him, especially at that Philly park

[Frank the Tank 35]

Sonofa... so we couldn't swing a little extra to get Abreu instead of Thome? If this goes through, I'll be irate.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Sonofa... so we couldn't swing a little extra to get Abreu instead of Thome?  If this goes through, I'll be irate.

If by "a little extra" you mean our starting C and a member of our starting 5, well then

[Frank the Tank 35]

It depends what kind of money is involved. If it's straight up, it's a salary dump of Posada. His 2007 will probably be guaranteed after he meets his games played clause next year. Pavano's value is lower than any of our starters (not counting Duque). Not only is he more expensive, but he's been ineffective for most of his career including last year most importantly. Duncan's a good prospect, but c'mon, who has a better farm system, Sox or Yanks?

[Rowand44]

It depends what kind of money is involved.  If it's straight up, it's a salary dump of Posada.  His 2007 will probably be guaranteed after he meets his games played clause next year.  Pavano's value is lower than any of our starters (not counting Duque).  Not only is he more expensive, but he's been ineffective for most of his career including last year most importantly.  Duncan's a good prospect, but c'mon, who has a better farm system, Sox or Yanks?

Just for the hell of it: Propose a trade that you think would be equal to the yankees deal, from the sox.

Edited November 30, 2005 by Rowand44

[Frank the Tank 35]

If you're talking about precluding the Thome deal, it's possible. We don't have a pitcher like Pavano to give up. Like I said, all of our starting 5 next year will be better value than Pavano. However, everybody else in the organization falls below him even with his massive contract. Considering we filled one of the Phils' needs with Rowand, I think the same deal plus Fields would have netted Abreu (of course this is all contingent on the Yanks deal actually working). Duncan's not all that spectacular anyway, he just happens to be a dim glimmer in an otherwise dark abyss of the Yanks minor league system. Granted he is only 20, but he only hit .235 last year with 19 homers and 61 RBI in AA (451 ABs). In contrast, the 22 year old Fields hit .252 with 16 homers and 79 RBI at AA (477 ABs).

 

Anyway, the more I look at it, the more this rumors smells like crap. The whole Posada-Lieberthal thing doesn't make any sense. The Phils are getting screwed unless the Yanks are throwing bags of $$$ at them. They need someone to immediately step up at 3B, not 2-3 years down the road.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Just for the hell of it: Propose a trade that you think would be equal to the yankees deal, from the sox.

 

I don't have the figures here but Posada has 2 years/20 million left. I bet Lieberthal makes at least 7 this year. This sounds like one of those deals where neither team will come out much ahead. Abreu is awesome though. I take it the Yanks will then sign Molina and use Liebrthal as an expensive backup catcher

[TheHawkaroo]

The team that has more World Championships than any other in professional sports has "no clue".  That's rich.

 

When they won those championships they were doing like he said, developing talent with guys like Jeter, Rivera, and Posada. But lately they have just been buying players and they haven't won even with that payroll.

[YASNY]

When they won those championships they were doing like he said, developing talent with guys like Jeter, Rivera, and Posada. But lately they have just been buying players and they haven't won even with that payroll.

 

Jeter and Rivera, I'll give you. Add Bernie. Posada came from the Braves, iirc. Then they "bought" Tino Martinez, Roger Clemens, Kenny Rogers, etc etc etc.

[maggsmaggs]

The team that has more World Championships than any other in professional sports has "no clue".  That's rich.

 

I am talking about the past 5 years Yankees. Because before that they were cost concious and developing minor leaguers, now they don't and just try all these pitchers who don't work out. They signed Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano to big deals and are already trying to get rid of them.

[Kyyle23]

If you're talking about precluding the Thome deal, it's possible.  We don't have a pitcher like Pavano to give up.  Like I said, all of our starting 5 next year will be better value than Pavano.  However, everybody else in the organization falls below him even with his massive contract.  Considering we filled one of the Phils' needs with Rowand, I think the same deal plus Fields would have netted Abreu (of course this is all contingent on the Yanks deal actually working).  Duncan's not all that spectacular anyway, he just happens to be a dim glimmer in an otherwise dark abyss of the Yanks minor league system.  Granted he is only 20, but he only hit .235 last year with 19 homers and 61 RBI in AA (451 ABs).  In contrast, the 22 year old Fields hit .252 with 16 homers and 79 RBI at AA (477 ABs).

 

Anyway, the more I look at it, the more this rumors smells like crap.  The whole Posada-Lieberthal thing doesn't make any sense.  The Phils are getting screwed unless the Yanks are throwing bags of $$$ at them.  They need someone to immediately step up at 3B, not 2-3 years down the road.

 

I think coming up with a trade that the Sox could have made for Abreu is pretty much a trick proposition. I dont think the Phils would be entertaining this offer at all without getting Jim Thome moved first.

[Balta1701]

Sonofa... so we couldn't swing a little extra to get Abreu instead of Thome?  If this goes through, I'll be irate.

Abreu has a strict no-trade clause as did Thome...which would mean that Abreu would have had to be willing to waive that clause for him to come to us. No guarantee he'd be willing to do that.

[ZoomSlowik]

I seriously doubt that the Sox could have worked out something for Abreu if that's the going rate. It's pretty obvious that Pavano is the most important part of the deal, and he represents something the Sox aren't going to give up: a major league starting pitcher. Besides that, regardless of Eric Duncan's talent level, he's considerably more hyped than any of our prospects, and Posada, while overpaid, has done more than Rowand in his career. Another issue is that Abreu just isn't as good a fit for the Sox as Thome was. He's been a RF for virtually his entire career, meaning we'd have to move Dye around to put him in the lineup. That'd be harder to do right now, and even before the Thome trade it creates a log jam. The more important issue is the money. We'd probably have to eat the bulk of his salary to get him, and he costs more than Thome would in a similar situation. It just doesn't make as much sense to acquire an expensive, somewhat aging outfielder when that happens to be the deepest position in our organization right now.

 

As for the Yankees, they'd still be lacking a true CF, and they'd have to find a new starting catcher. Plus, they'll lose some rotation depth, something they need since everyone seems to be injury prone and underachieving. When are they going to learn that you just can't put together a Murderer's Row lineup and win in the playoffs?

[Balta1701]

I seriously doubt that the Sox could have worked out something for Abreu if that's the going rate. It's pretty obvious that Pavano is the most important part of the deal, and he represents something the Sox aren't going to give up: a major league starting pitcher.

I think another key part of this sort of a deal, if it happens, would be the Yankees eating a large portion of the Pavano and Posada deals. Based on his health problems last year and the size of his contract, I can't imagine the Phils would want him as the key part of a deal for one of their biggest bats IF the Yankees weren't going to make it so that Pavano was an even bigger bargain for the Phils than Thome was for us.

[Kalapse]

Jeter and Rivera, I'll give you. Add Bernie.  Posada came from the Braves, iirc.  Then they "bought" Tino Martinez, Roger Clemens, Kenny Rogers, etc etc etc.

Incorrect, Jorge Posada was Drafted by the New York Yankees in the 24th round of the 1990 amateur draft.

[SSH2005]

Obviously, Sheffield will stay in right field but who would play center field, Abreu or Matsui? I thought they wanted to get a solid glove for center. Neither Abreu nor Matsui would be good in center.

[iWiN4PreP]

if they get abreau...

bah..

i always thought of abreau as an elite, top tire player.

just sucks thinking of their lineup with him added... what a lineup...

[YASNY]

Incorrect, Jorge Posada was Drafted by the New York Yankees in the 24th round of the 1990 amateur draft.

 

Then who in the hell am I confusing him with? A good hitting catcher that left the Bravos as FA and Estrada replaced?

[EvilJester99]

Then who in the hell am I confusing him with?  A good hitting catcher that left the Bravos as FA and Estrada replaced?

That would be I believe Javy Lopez

[Kalapse]

That would be I believe Javy Lopez

Whom went to Baltimore. I'm not really sure how you can confuse Posada with Lopez

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I still say the Yanks are going to set their sites on AROW...

 

By the end of the off season he will be in pinstripes...