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Does your Church make you feel like this?

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And yet another thing about the churches I went to: They seemed to be parrots for the Republican Party. Do we have to tow the party line on every single issue? Are the Republicans that perfect? I just felt like, in order to be a part of the family, I had to think George W. Bush was Jesus. And I didn't. I didn't think that Jesus really agreed with a lot of the policies of the Republican Party or for that matter the Democratic Party. I felt like Jesus was a religious figure, not a political figure. I heard my pastor say once, when there were only a few of us standing around, that he hated Bill Clinton. I can understand not liking Clinton's policies, but I want my spirituality to rid me of hate, not give me reason for it. I couldn't deal with that. That is one of the main reasons I walked away. I felt like, by going to this particular church, I was a pawn for the Republicans. Meanwhile, the Republicans did not give a crap about the causes of Christ.

 

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/182/story_18225_1.html

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I suppose it's only fair that one church out there is a "parrot for the Republican party," since most of the national media is a tool of the Democratic party.

 

But according to LCR, we shouldn't go to church at all (especially if we're Catholic) because organized religion has done so many terrible things. :rolly

Edited by WCSox

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QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 12:19 PM)
But according to LCR, we shouldn't go to church at all (especially if we're Catholic) because organized religion has done so many terrible things.  :rolly

 

And we won't, eventually:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060109/...nA2BHNlYwM3NDI-

 

Think that won't happen here at some point? Got news for you, it already is, right or wrong.

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QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 12:19 PM)
I suppose it's only fair that one church out there is a "parrot for the Republican party," since most of the national media is a tool of the Democratic party.

 

But according to LCR, we shouldn't go to church at all (especially if we're Catholic) because organized religion has done so many terrible things.  :rolly

 

It's not just one church - its far too many of them.

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QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 09:45 AM)
And we won't, eventually:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060109/...nA2BHNlYwM3NDI-

 

Think that won't happen here at some point?  Got news for you, it already is, right or wrong.

Unfortunately, the statistics don't agree with you there...while Christianity sure seems to be on the wane in other countries, church attendance is on the rise in this country, according to the most recent census data.

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QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 11:48 AM)
It's not just one church - its far too many of them.

 

The Silent Majority, etc. Sometime a while back the Dems and GOP dealt out cards in a vast game, they divided issues and special interest groups. Both groups had winners and losers among them.

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I used to walk out of church feeling good.

Now when I go ( which is more and more infrequently ), I don't feel much of anything.

Not sure if that's a reflection on me or the church. I'm betting on 50/50.

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QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 11:45 AM)
And we won't, eventually:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060109/...nA2BHNlYwM3NDI-

 

Think that won't happen here at some point?  Got news for you, it already is, right or wrong.

 

 

A fierce controversy over any mention of Europe's Christian heritage erupted in 2004 when officials were drafting a constitution for the

European Union, Weigel notes.

 

Any mention of the continent's religious past or contributions of Christian culture - in a preface citing the sources of Europe's distinct civilization - would be exclusionary and offensive to non-Christians, many argued. Former French president Valery Giscard d'Estaing, who presided over the process, summed up the dominant view: "Europeans live in a purely secular political system, where religion does not play an important role."

 

Well nice quote there Frenchy. Maybe he should of said the majority, or some or whatever. Unfortunately he has never been to Ireland where religion is part of society. Where religion has been in the government for years. Where as of today religion is still how many Irish identify themselves. I dont see Ireland waning due to the fact that the religion is still the identity of the Irish today.

Edited by southsideirish71

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 11:55 AM)
Unfortunately, the statistics don't agree with you there...while Christianity sure seems to be on the wane in other countries, church attendance is on the rise in this country, according to the most recent census data.

 

Unfortunately? You want a Godless America? No wonder the liberals are dragging this country right down the s***ter.

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QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 11:25 AM)
Unfortunately? You want a Godless America?  No wonder the liberals are dragging this country right down the s***ter.

 

Taking politics out of the equation, what's "unfortunate" about going to church? Are reflection and prayer negative things?

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QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 11:16 AM)
I dont see Ireland waning due to the fact that the religion is still the identity of the Irish today.

 

Poland as well.

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QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 01:25 PM)
Unfortunately? You want a Godless America?  No wonder the liberals are dragging this country right down the s***ter.

 

So if America goes in the "s***ter" without God, is it safe to assume you feel that anyone who doesn't attend church belongs in said "s***ter"?

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QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 12:37 PM)
So if America goes in the "s***ter" without God, is it safe to assume you feel that anyone who doesn't attend church belongs in said "s***ter"?

 

I said nothing about church. I was talking about God.

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QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 01:39 PM)
I said nothing about church.  I was talking about God.

 

But your response was to a posting about going to Church.

 

In any case, same question. Do all people who do not believe in God, or not believe in your particular vision of God, belong in the "s***ter"? Do you actually believe that making American better or stronger necessitates a belief in a specific God?

 

If we want America to be better, maybe we should focus on actually fixing the problems that exist, instead of hitching our fortunes to one particular guiding force in some people's lives. Especially since this country is supposed to be a secular state, protecting the freedoms of all believers and non-believers. Let's focus on the problems at hand, and not fall into the intellectual laziness that is mass-cultural stereotyping and categorization.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 12:55 PM)
Unfortunately, the statistics don't agree with you there...while Christianity sure seems to be on the wane in other countries, church attendance is on the rise in this country, according to the most recent census data.

 

 

That doesn't say that at all. It says certain churches had growth, but didn't elaborate on most of them. As a whole, people who consider themselves "religious" to the point that they actually practice is in decline in this country. Ask any catholic diocese in the country about their growth rate.....

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QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 06:25 PM)
Unfortunately? You want a Godless America?  No wonder the liberals are dragging this country right down the s***ter.

 

what in the??? he was saying unfortunately for the poster that the facts don't back up that claim...

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QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 07:00 PM)
That doesn't say that at all.  It says certain churches had growth, but didn't elaborate on most of them.  As a whole, people who consider themselves "religious" to the point that they actually practice is in decline in this country.  Ask any catholic diocese in the country about their growth rate.....

 

yes, i wonder why the catholic growth rate would be declining.

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QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 01:33 PM)
Poland as well.

 

Not for much longer:

 

The only Western Christian country which has a church attendance higher than that of the U.S. is Ireland. More than 90% of adults went to church during the 1960's. A poll by Irish Marketing Surveys released in 1999-DEC, found that only half of the population of the Irish Republic currently attended church weekly. (This is a reduction from about 63% in 1998). 10% went once a month; 5% went on holy days; 13% never went to church at all. A spokesperson for the Archbishop of Dublin blamed the recent reduction on a series of sex scandals by priests in the Roman Catholic church.

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QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 12:59 PM)
But your response was to a posting about going to Church.

 

In any case, same question.  Do all people who do not believe in God, or not believe in your particular vision of God, belong in the "s***ter"?  Do you actually believe that making American better or stronger necessitates a belief in a specific God?

 

If we want America to be better, maybe we should focus on actually fixing the problems that exist, instead of hitching our fortunes to one particular guiding force in some people's lives.  Especially since this country is supposed to be a secular state, protecting the freedoms of all believers and non-believers.  Let's focus on the problems at hand, and not fall into the intellectual laziness that is mass-cultural stereotyping and categorization.

 

You've got your opinion, I've got mine. I believe God needs to be in the forefront of America. As for whether or not an individual is in the s***ter without God, that's not for me to say. We'll see what God has to say about it at a later date.

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QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 12:03 PM)
Not for much longer:

 

The only Western Christian country which has a church attendance higher than that of the U.S. is Ireland. More than 90% of adults went to church during the 1960's. A poll by Irish Marketing Surveys released in 1999-DEC, found that only half of the population of the Irish Republic currently attended church weekly. (This is a reduction from about 63% in 1998). 10% went once a month; 5% went on holy days; 13% never went to church at all. A spokesperson for the Archbishop of Dublin blamed the recent reduction on a series of sex scandals by priests in the Roman Catholic church.

 

Does that survey discount all of Central and South America, which is pretty much all Catholic?

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QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 02:03 PM)
You've got your opinion, I've got mine.  I believe God needs to be in the forefront of America.  As for whether or not an individual is in the s***ter without God, that's not for me to say.  We'll see what God has to say about it at a later date.

 

If we put "God" at the forefront of America, why have the protections in the Constitution for freedom of religion at all?

 

Also, there are 250 million Americans (give or take), and depending on how detailed you get, anywhere from at least a few dozen to as many as 250 million different ideas of what "God" is. Seems pretty arrogant to say that your God should be at the forefront.

 

Anyway, just to clarify, I've been a churchgoer (on and off at times) my whole life. Lots of great things can come from a belief in God or some other system of faith. I just want to make sure that everyone gets the same protections in this country regardless of their version of God, or lack thereof. Your statement just felt to me like an insult to anyone not sharing your particular belief system.

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QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 01:01 PM)
what in the??? he was saying unfortunately for the poster that the facts don't back up that claim...

 

I stand by what I said.

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QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 02:11 PM)
Does that survey discount all of Central and South America, which is pretty much all Catholic?

 

Central and South America(and much of Africa for that matter) are populated primarily by uneducated, unsophisticated people that would believe in anything someone with a sandwich and sentiments of hope tells them to believe in. The only figures that matter are those taken from mostly developed countries.

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QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 10, 2006 -> 07:11 PM)
Does that survey discount all of Central and South America, which is pretty much all Catholic?

 

seriously, and i find it hard to believe some of the mediterranean countries don't have as high of a rate

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