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Useless Stat of the Day


jasonxctf
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Did you know that with the electoral college, no candidate would need to cross the Mississippi River to win the election. You can win by grabbing every state east of the river. In fact, you can win even by losing Indiana, Kentucky, Alabama, Missisippi and South Carolina as long as you carry the rest.

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i think that's what the dem party should do next time. forget about campaigning in New Mexico, Washington, Oregon, Iowa, Minnesota, Nevada, etc. Even if no one set foot in CA or HI, we would probably still carry those states. With those (2) states, you could still loose GA, TN, NC, VA, WV, IN, KY, AL, MS, SC and still win.

 

Just put all of your time, effort and money into FL, OH, PA and maintain your "slight dem" states of WI and NH.

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QUOTE(rventura23 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 05:29 PM)
yup thats how the electoral college works, its all about getting strategic votes

 

And it's a pointless system at this time in history. Useless, and in fact is incongruous with our "democracy". It's time has past, but no politicians have the balls to get rid of it. This one needs the courts. Next time someone wins the Presidency without the popular vote, someone needs to get this thing removed by the judicial system.

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QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 05:43 PM)
And it's a pointless system at this time in history.  Useless, and in fact is incongruous with our "democracy".  It's time has past, but no politicians have the balls to get rid of it.  This one needs the courts.  Next time someone wins the Presidency without the popular vote, someone needs to get this thing removed by the judicial system.

 

I agree its time has passed

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QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 04:43 PM)
And it's a pointless system at this time in history.  Useless, and in fact is incongruous with our "democracy".  It's time has past, but no politicians have the balls to get rid of it.  This one needs the courts.  Next time someone wins the Presidency without the popular vote, someone needs to get this thing removed by the judicial system.

 

 

Unless, of course, a Democrat won the electoral college and lost the popular vote. Then the electoral college would be an important institution in our democratic system.

 

right northsidesox72?

 

:P

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QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 04:42 PM)
i think that's what the dem party should do next time. forget about campaigning in New Mexico, Washington, Oregon, Iowa, Minnesota, Nevada, etc. Even if no one set foot in CA or HI, we would probably still carry those states. With those (2) states, you could still loose GA, TN, NC, VA, WV, IN, KY, AL, MS, SC and still win.

 

Just put all of your time, effort and money into FL, OH, PA and maintain your "slight dem" states of WI and NH.

 

 

Um, Iowa wouldn't hurt for the dems. We've been dem for a while with the slim excpetion of 04. It's not an upset for a dem to win IA.

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QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 04:48 PM)
Unless, of course, a Democrat won the electoral college and lost the popular vote.  Then the electoral college would be an important institution in our democratic system.

 

right northsidesox72?

 

:P

 

 

You know damn well republicans would play it the same way.

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Independent of who wins its not the best system, plus it heavily weights votes ; someone living in a state that consistently and convincingly votes one way or another, his votes is worth nothing compared to someone in an important district of ohio or florida whose votes are very important

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QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 05:48 PM)
Unless, of course, a Democrat won the electoral college and lost the popular vote.  Then the electoral college would be an important institution in our democratic system.

 

right northsidesox72?

 

:P

:huh:

 

I'm not a Democrat. Also, I'm not a winger. Not sure why you thought I was a Dem, but if you look at the body of my posts in here, you'll see I'm as much on the right side of the aisle as the left.

 

And as Heads said, it will be whichever party gets bitten in the ass. I'll just be happy when it happens again to someone, so that we can get that thing toppled.

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I'll just add a thought about our electoral college. It has been said that it gives the states with lesser populations the ability to have their say in who is elected President. That way, it is not always the cities that have their way, but small town America gets to have a voice as well.

 

If we switched to popular votes, due to population. These are the states that would gain a bigger voice (they happen to be the most populous).

 

New Jersey

Georgia

Virginia

Indiana

Washington

Ohio

Michigan

Illinois

Pennsylvania

New York

Florida

California

Texas

 

24 states would actually lose a bit of power if this were to change.

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QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jan 14, 2006 -> 01:57 AM)
I hate the electoral college. Always have. I'm a big one person-one vote guy.

 

Considering that you are young guy (right?) and basically a Democrat, that is understandable. Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush. The EC hasn't been to kind to you in your lifetime.

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QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 06:01 PM)
on this topic, there is a cool website called

 

www.270towin.com

 

you can view every electoral college result in US History. Even back to hte 1st Presidential Election where Washington won with 69 electoral votes.

 

Pretty neat.

 

I like how the subtitle is "this isnt a popularity contest"

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QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 14, 2006 -> 08:31 AM)
Considering that you are young guy (right?) and basically a Democrat, that is understandable.  Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush.  The EC hasn't been to kind to you in your lifetime.

:huh:

 

In this century, I believe there have been 2 Presidents elected to office by electoral college who did not carry the popular vote: one Republican (Bush II), and one Democrat (Kennedy).

 

The fact that there have been more GOP Presidents in the last 25 years is not relevant to discussion of the electoral college, since Reagan, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II II all won the popular vote (most by a large margin).

 

The electoral college has no logical reason for existence at this point in time. President is a national office, and should be voted on nationally. Like I said earlier, I hope we have another election soon where that duality occurs, so that we can get this thing knocked out. And I could care less which party does the complaining.

 

Let's have some objectivity in this discussion (instead of just flinging stuff from the wings).

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QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 14, 2006 -> 12:29 PM)
:huh:

 

In this century, I believe there have been 2 Presidents elected to office by electoral college who did not carry the popular vote: one Republican (Bush II), and one Democrat (Kennedy).

 

The fact that there have been more GOP Presidents in the last 25 years is not relevant to discussion of the electoral college, since Reagan, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II II all won the popular vote (most by a large margin).

 

The electoral college has no logical reason for existence at this point in time.  President is a national office, and should be voted on nationally.  Like I said earlier, I hope we have another election soon where that duality occurs, so that we can get this thing knocked out.  And I could care less which party does the complaining.

 

Let's have some objectivity in this discussion (instead of just flinging stuff from the wings).

 

 

Im in favor of keeping the status quo. Im absolutely positive the founders had this very same debate when the Constitution was being drawn up and theres a very good reason why things are the way they are. We get rid of the electoral college then the views of the small states become irrelevant as candidates focus on Cali, NY, TX, IL, OH and Florida.

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QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jan 14, 2006 -> 02:42 PM)
Im in favor of keeping the status quo.  Im absolutely positive the founders had this very same debate when the Constitution was being drawn up and theres a very good reason why things are the way they are.  We get rid of the electoral college then the views of the small states become irrelevant as candidates focus on Cali, NY, TX, IL, OH and Florida.

 

the reason the electoral college was formed was because our leaders felt that citizens weren't informed enough to make a proper decision. Todays voters are much better informed (although both parties spew propoganda come election time). People feel that there is no need to vote; in California or Illinois democrats are going to win the electoral vote no matter what. If the format was changed to a popular vote, the voter turnout would increase dramatically.

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Kennedy did win the popular vote but just barely. Had 120,000 votes gone Ford's way, Carter would have won the popular vote but lost the electoral college in 1976. Bush would have won the popular vote but lost the electoral college in 2004 too.

 

And I've actually said here, I would rather Kerry have won, but I would rather Kerry had won in the popular and electoral mandate. The last thing I wanted was having a Kerry electoral college victory and a popular vote loss.

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QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jan 14, 2006 -> 03:31 PM)
Kennedy did win the popular vote but just barely. Had 120,000 votes gone Ford's way, Carter would have won the popular vote but lost the electoral college in 1976. Bush would have won the popular vote but lost the electoral college in 2004 too.

 

And I've actually said here, I would rather Kerry have won, but I would rather Kerry had won in the popular and electoral mandate. The last thing I wanted was having a Kerry electoral college victory and a popular vote loss.

 

 

Wait a minute, I thought Bush's victory with both the popular AND electoral vote wasn't a mandate.

 

:huh

 

Is it only a mandate when the leftist candidate wins?

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QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 14, 2006 -> 12:29 PM)
:huh:

 

In this century, I believe there have been 2 Presidents elected to office by electoral college who did not carry the popular vote: one Republican (Bush II), and one Democrat (Kennedy).

 

The fact that there have been more GOP Presidents in the last 25 years is not relevant to discussion of the electoral college, since Reagan, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II II all won the popular vote (most by a large margin).

 

The electoral college has no logical reason for existence at this point in time.  President is a national office, and should be voted on nationally.  Like I said earlier, I hope we have another election soon where that duality occurs, so that we can get this thing knocked out.  And I could care less which party does the complaining.

 

Let's have some objectivity in this discussion (instead of just flinging stuff from the wings).

 

For the record, I wasn't trying to fling anything from the wings. I was trying to look at an angle from a younger person's perspective and threw it out there to see if it was part of the equation. It wasn't. Fine. Just say so.

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QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jan 14, 2006 -> 04:13 PM)
Wait a minute,  I thought Bush's victory with both the popular AND electoral vote wasn't a mandate.

 

:huh

 

Is it only a mandate when the leftist candidate wins?

It wouldn't have been a mandate either way because half the voting age population doesn't f***ing vote in the damn first place.

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