"democrats fail to find a message"

[southsider2k5]

I think the Dem who will get the nomination is someone that isn't really talked about much right now.

 

I think this line saids it all right there. I think it was the Repubs who have started the strategy of "less is more" when it comes to finding people for offices. The smaller the resume, the less there is to be impeached by the other side duing the election cycle. I wouldn't be shocked if both of the major party canditates are near nobodies in relative to the people that are being bandied about today.

[Rex Kickass]

It's generally the case.

 

In 1998, nobody was talking about W.

 

In 1994, nobody was talking about Dole.

 

In 1990, nobody was talking about Bill Clinton.

 

In 2003, everyone thought Dean would be the nominee.

[Balta1701]

In 1994, nobody was talking about Dole.

Is that seriously true? He was the Senate Majority leader, he'd made a big push for the nomination in '88 and '96 was the first chance without an incumbent. I figure almost everyone thought Dole was going to win then. Hell, if you go back to the reruns of the series "The Critic" which aired in 94 and early 95, there's an animated clip of Bob Dole telling one of the characters that the nomination is his.

 

Also, Until Dean came onto the scene with his fundraising, before his implosion, Kerry was the prohibitive favorite on almost everyone's scorecard in mid 03. And I'm pretty sure GWB had a very solid power base in his party built by at least 99. It was all those funds that Bush raised in 98-99 that helped him beat McCain in 2000. Hell, there are quotes out there asking Bush what he thought about the Kosovo operation, so clearly he was being talked about in national politics by that point.

Edited February 26, 2006 by Balta1701

[Rex Kickass]

Bush was being talked about in 98, but his profile was pretty low. You had to be inside the beltway to hear about him being a contender. You might be right about dole. I definitely remember Kerry starting as the front runner, but by June of 03 he was deadweight, behind Dean and Wes Clark.

[samclemens]

In 2003, everyone thought Dean would be the nominee.

 

until...the dean scream!

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/mu.../dean_nuts.mpga

[southsider2k5]

Bush was being talked about in 98, but his profile was pretty low. You had to be inside the beltway to hear about him being a contender. You might be right about dole. I definitely remember Kerry starting as the front runner, but by June of 03 he was deadweight, behind Dean and Wes Clark.

 

Then Theresa Heinz Kerry lent his campaign a few million dollars, he unleashed some particularly nasty attack ads in the early states, and the rest is history.

[Balta1701]

Then Theresa Heinz Kerry lent his campaign a few million dollars, he unleashed some particularly nasty attack ads in the early states, and the rest is history.

A decent chunk of those dollars which helped finance those early anti-Dean ads in Iowa also came from a guy named Steinbrenner, I believe. Just something to note. Yes, that Steinbrenner.

 

Actually, there were a lot of reasons why Dean fell apart, not just the scream. While Dean was able to raise a ton of money and put a lot of ads on the air in Iowa, the people who he had running his campaign were quite terrible at actually making ads, and it's generally thought he had the worst ads of any of the major candidates in Iowa.

 

On top of that, their ground game was incredibly disorganized. They bused in thousands of people who were willing to help out on the ground, going door to door, etc, and then the only places they put them was in the cities...they never mapped out anywhere out in the rural areas. So you had people in cities in Iowa having Dean people come to their door 5-6 times, and people out in the rural areas never hearing from them. And strangely, it turned out that Dean performed a lot better in the cities, while the rural areas helped Kerry and Edwards carry the state.

 

And on top of that, there's all of the different avenues he gave the press to attack him. He never had good handlers to check speeches and make sure he didn't say anything they'd focus on. I mean, come on, why the Hell is he even alluding to the "theories" that the President knew about 9/11 before it happened. So yeah, there were a lot of things that brought him down, not just Kerry's money, not just the scream, but a whole mess of organization too.

[Cknolls]

I think the next election could be a campaign between two former Govs of the same state.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Allen vs Warner. I think this would be a very good race.

[jasonxctf]

yeah, i know. but the furthest right you are going to get is bill frist, as far as i can tell. compared to how far frist is from moderate compared to how far hillary is from moderate, that is what i base my assumption on.

 

 

don't forget about that nutbag senator from kansas... i think his name is brownback.

[Rex Kickass]

A brownback candidacy would be a lot of fun to watch.

[mr_genius]

Interesting point.  I think it could be interesting to see if Obama runs for Govenor in the next election after this one.  I know there was talk about Dems possibly wanting to groom him for a presidential run at some point, so I wonder if they'll ask him to go the route that is becoming the path to the presidency.

 

 

Obama is so overrated. media darling, nothing more.

[Balta1701]

Obama is so overrated.  media darling, nothing more.

Based on what I've seen of him, at least on the national stage, his reputation was well-deserved.

[mr_genius]

Based on what I've seen of him, at least on the national stage, his reputation was well-deserved.

 

well, this is one we'll have to "agree to disagree". IMO, the guy isn't that talented or worthy of all the accolaides he recieves in the media as "a political superstar on the rise!".

[BigSqwert]

well, this is one we'll have to "agree to disagree".  IMO, the guy isn't that talented or worthy of all the accolaides he recieves in the media as "a political superstar on the rise!".

Care to give some insight as to why you feel this way? Other than you hate Democrats.

[mr_genius]

Care to give some insight as to why you feel this way?  Other than you hate Democrats.

 

i don't like his ideas, i don't like is speaking style, he has never been challenged by anyone in the media (aka, he could crumble when he gets asked hard questions), he has hasn't done anything out of the ordinary to deserve to be ordained the best young politician in the country.... ect.

 

oh, but if i don't like him it's just because i hate all democrats...

[BigSqwert]

i don't like is speaking style

Yeah I prefer GW's stumbling and bumbling use of the English language. Much more polished than an articulate ex-editor of the Harvard Law Review.

Edited February 28, 2006 by BigSqwert

[Balta1701]

i don't  like his ideas, i don't like is speaking style, he has never been challenged by anyone in the media (aka, he could crumble when he gets asked hard questions), he has hasn't done anything out of the ordinary to deserve to be ordained the best young politician in the country.... ect.

 

oh, but if i don't like him it's just because i hate all democrats...

See, I actually was very impressed with his speaking style. I thought it was a tossup between him and Bill as to who gave the best speech @ the Dem convention in 2004, for example (Clearly better than either Kerry or Edwards).

[mr_genius]

Yeah I prefer GW's stumbling and bumbling use of the English language.  Much more polished than an articulate ex-Harvard law review president.

 

 

wow, Obama has better speaking abilities than G.W. Bush,impressive. Bush has done a poor job as president IMO, i don't know what you are getting at (besides jumping to conclusions and mounting a poor defense of Obama's undeserved reputation)

[mr_genius]

See, I actually was very impressed with his speaking style.  I thought it was a tossup between him and Bill as to who gave the best speech @ the Dem convention in 2004, for example (Clearly better than either Kerry or Edwards).

 

Bill Clinton gave a great speech, much better than Obama.

[samclemens]

Yeah I prefer GW's stumbling and bumbling use of the English language.  Much more polished than an articulate ex-editor of the Harvard Law Review.

 

objectively, what has barack done to deserve the reputation as the up and coming democrat politician?

[BigSqwert]

objectively, what has barack done to deserve the reputation as the up and coming democrat politician?

 

The key phrase is 'up and coming'. He hasn't done anything to allow him to aspire to greater office. He needs to pay his dues first.

 

He's got a lot of charisma. People like him because he has a presence about him. He isn't a guy who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and he's done some noble things in his life, such as spending a good part of it working as a community activist when he could have easily taken a posh job in corporate America.

[BigSqwert]

objectively, what has barack done to deserve the reputation as the up and coming democrat politician?

Here's a list of things he's been involved in over the past 12 months. Not like he's been sleeping in his office.

 

http://obama.senate.gov/press/