NorthSideSox72 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 11:38 AM) The accord hybrid uses a new, more powerful GAS motor; not exactly a fair comparison to say the hybrids perform better. And, on the Accord, you're looking at a 10k difference in price. Over two decades to make that up. The Lexus SUV performs about equally with its gasoline counterpart. Here, there's a $6k price difference and you're looking at over a decade to make up the difference. And this STILL doesn't address substiantially more expensive maintainance costs, especially if you're keeping the car 7+ years to make it worthwhile. The Accord is not 10k more across the line - there are added features on that model. Compare it to a similarly loaded regular Accord.. Lexus? No idea on price, but it doesnt surprise me that Lexus would have the biggest differential. Maintenance is a non-issue on a new car going forward. Again, most comparisons put the timeline to save on a full hybrid at 5 to 7 years IF gas prices stay the same (which they won't). And that is at CURRENT PRICES for hybrids, which also won't stay the same. AND it ignores the tax rebates. In 2 years, many full hybrids (not the Lexus, probably) will have their savings threshold at 3 to 4 years, less if tax rebates are better in your state. All the numbers are moving that direction. And at 3-4 years, you are still under warranty. Does a full hybrid make sense right now, if you are in a state with no rebates and you only care about the money saved? Of course not. But a light hybrid might. And the environmental angle makes a difference. And in some states, total rebates fed and state might push it over. And that is TODAY. In 2 years, when the units are cheaper (which they already are - the difference in manifacturing costs used to be over 10k), and gas prices are similar or higher, the full hybrid solution will become viable for a lot more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) Maintenance is a non-issue on a new car going forward. Again, most comparisons put the timeline to save on a full hybrid at 5 to 7 years IF gas prices stay the same (which they won't). And that is at CURRENT PRICES for hybrids, which also won't stay the same. AND it ignores the tax rebates. In 2 years, many full hybrids (not the Lexus, probably) will have their savings threshold at 3 to 4 years, less if tax rebates are better in your state. All the numbers are moving that direction. And at 3-4 years, you are still under warranty. In 4 years, at 80 miles/day and ZERO other driving (vacations, trips, etc), you'd be right at the 80k mile end of the warranty on those cars. So, right when you start saving money, you've got a car with 80k miles which is no longer under warranty and has some pretty expensive components that jim-bob down the street can't replace. Does a full hybrid make sense right now, if you are in a state with no rebates and you only care about the money saved? Of course not. But a light hybrid might. And the environmental angle makes a difference. And in some states, total rebates fed and state might push it over. And that is TODAY. In 2 years, when the units are cheaper (which they already are - the difference in manifacturing costs used to be over 10k), and gas prices are similar or higher, the full hybrid solution will become viable for a lot more people. A light hybrid, with its minimal cost difference, may indeed help. A decade from now, so might a full hybrid. Really I'm arguing against the idea that they're going to save you money anytime soon. Environmental factors are a non-issue as we are discussing gas prices and economic value. According to one article I posted above, rebates aren't helping that much as you can't take the full value. I think the future lies in smaller, lighter vehicles (you're never going to get a Cadillac Escalade to get decent MPG unless you build the entire thing out of carbon fiber), alternate fuel sources, and improved engine technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 11:59 AM) I think the future lies in smaller, lighter vehicles (you're never going to get a Cadillac Escalade to get decent MPG unless you build the entire thing out of carbon fiber), alternate fuel sources, and improved engine technology. I agree that all of the above are a major chunk of the future picture, along with hybrid and alternate fuel technologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 04:46 PM) For you, barely driving and with a not-bad car anyway? None. Except maybe the environmental angle. For someone who commutes 50-100 miles RT every day, and has a 15-MPG gas-guzzler? Maybe. In a year or two? Heck yeah, in that case. I fall exactly into that category. I drive about 80 miles RT and get around 15 MPG. My only problem is that any money I would be saving on gas would be going towards car payments. My current car is paid off. I think I'll be better off looking for a used car for around $6000 or less and gets something over 20 MPG rather than paying $20,000+ for a hybrid and have to make payments for the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 DaimlerChrysler recently announced that they'll bring the SmartCar to the US in mid-2007-- www.smartusa.com, and Tangos are right around the corner -- www.commutercars.com. Both have brighter futures than traditional hybrids, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 05:00 PM) DaimlerChrysler recently announced that they'll bring the SmartCar to the US in mid-2007-- www.smartusa.com, and Tangos are right around the corner -- www.commutercars.com. Both have brighter futures than traditional hybrids, IMHO. Chrysler's been talking about bringing those over here for it seems like 5 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 It's available in Canada, but modifications are required to make it fit US standards of something or other IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 11:07 AM) It's available in Canada, but modifications are required to make it fit US standards of something or other IIRC. That's what they've always claimed, but it's a bunch of crap if you ask me. But, the CEO of Daimler is on record recently as saying the fortwo model will be here in mid-to-late 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 It's true, if you want to import a smart car, you have to mod it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Yeah for new record highs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Is gas supposed to go up again? It's been at 3.25 for a little over a week now by me - weird that a week has gone by and not another increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AssHatSoxFan Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 gas has been decreasing here in Indy got it for 2.68 yesterday but i expect it to rise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I think the situation in the Middle East has caused gas prices to go a bunch higher today. The latest market update that I have gotten: 12:30 pm : Market spikes lower since the last update as reports of a rocket hitting Israel's third largest city, Haifa, suggest the situation in the Middle East could easily get much worse before it gets better exacerbate underlying nervousness. Oil prices are now up almost 2.0% at $76.40 per barrel while gasoline futures, up 4.66 cents to $2.3035/gal, are hitting their highest level since last September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 QUOTE(Queen Prawn @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 12:47 PM) Is gas supposed to go up again? It's been at 3.25 for a little over a week now by me - weird that a week has gone by and not another increase. If this is more than a one day blip, you will be paying $3.50 by August 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Here we go again... Biggest US oilfield shutdown, 8% of capacity shuttered... Crude up $1.50BBP near records again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 10:52 PM) Here we go again... Biggest US oilfield shutdown, 8% of capacity shuttered... Crude up $1.50BBP near records again Currently it's at $1.30-$1.40 a litre down here ATM. Our PM Howard said that he would like prices to get back down to around $1.15. Personally I think that's a load of BS, unless the Government decides to cut it's fuel tax (which it will never do because it generates so much revenue). So it comes back to the argument of Ethanol and Hybrid Engines again doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 06:02 AM) So it comes back to the argument of Ethanol and Hybrid Engines again doesn't it. Ethanol of course still causes increases in the prices of petrol, so that ain't your solution. However, the next generation of Hybrids, from Honda and Toyota, due in roughly 08-09, should, if the rumors are correct, start to sate your appetite. Somewhere in the 80-110 mile per gallon range is the rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I was on E yesterday, and it was $3.09, disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 10:32 AM) I was on E yesterday, and it was $3.09, disgusting. Just wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 11:39 AM) Just wait... I remember when I first got my license, it was a little over a $1.00. And people thought that was bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samclemens Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 11:41 AM) I remember when I first got my license, it was a little over a $1.00. And people thought that was bad. yeah when i was 17, i remember gas being $0.89 a gallon. My friend filled up his sable for 12 or 13 dollars that summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Ahhhh, to go back to those wonderful days when 11 dollars filled my crappy old Ford Escort from E to F......now 35 bucks gets me from E to 3/4......ugh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 By my BIL's house in New Lenox, it is $3.15 a gallon for 87 and by home it is $3.29 a gallon for 87. I figure it'll go up at least 5 cents with today's news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 10:32 AM) I was on E yesterday, and it was $3.09, disgusting. Were you in Bloomington? The cheapest gas in Bloomington is usually off of 45/46 before Martinsville at the BP heading northbound. The absolute cheapest I've seen was in Martinsville off of 67 at the BP before you get into Martinsville's main drag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 01:45 PM) Were you in Bloomington? The cheapest gas in Bloomington is usually off of 45/46 before Martinsville at the BP heading northbound. The absolute cheapest I've seen was in Martinsville off of 67 at the BP before you get into Martinsville's main drag. Nah, I'm in Fort Wayne until the 21st. I know where you're talking about though. I'm usually using the Citgo on N. Walnut, right before the light at 45/46 (because it's the closest to my apartment). Or I use the Speedway on 3rd near the mall (because they usually are a few cents cheaper and I have a Speedway Rewards card). Are you still going to be at IU? You were planning to study abroad also, weren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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