kapkomet Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 06:34 AM) Ethanol currently does almost nothing to cut into our energy demand. Nor will it ever, by some estimates. I forget where I read that, but it would seem to be a farce to think that it will ever come to the amount of energy to even make a dent on our oil consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 03:50 AM) Nor will it ever, by some estimates. I forget where I read that, but it would seem to be a farce to think that it will ever come to the amount of energy to even make a dent on our oil consumption. Although, that is on the assumption we continue to use corn for ethanol. Other ag products seem to have much higher energy output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 02:19 PM) Although, that is on the assumption we continue to use corn for ethanol. Other ag products seem to have much higher energy output. Really? Like what? I'm curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 11:06 AM) Really? Like what? I'm curious. Well, the example other people always cite is sugar cane, which has a much higher energy content per unit crop harvested than corn (Think; eat a pound of corn and a pound of sugar. How many hours before you can go to sleep after each?) A lot of people discuss how Brazil has had some success in this, but the numbers are often poorly understood, and claims are made that only end up wasting energy and costing American consumers even more $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 01:06 PM) Really? Like what? I'm curious. There is a difference between conventional grain-based ethanol (corn, soy) and cellulosic ethanol (switchgrass, etc.). That is one important differentiation. Cellulosic ethanol requires no use of fossil fuels up front for production, or at least a lot less, and gives you more energy by mass. Here is a lengthy but interesting article...  http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/enews/en...sic_Ethanol.htm  A brief from Iowa State (go Clones!) on the energy output difference, and links to a DOE study:  http://www.public.iastate.edu/~brummer/ag/biomass2.htm  Now, part of the problem with cellolosic ethanol is that it will take some time and money to get the infrastructure up and running (just like any other feul source). But once it is there, we would have a renewable, locally-produced, lower emission fuel to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 So this is the grass clippings ethanol that's been talked about? Basically compost type of material, except it doesn't rot, it is turned into ethanol. Â I think that is a pretty interesting concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 The website "The Oil Drum" which keeps track of these sorts of energy related issues has had a very fascinating, long-running discussion on ethanol and cellulosic ethanol in particular. If you want to hear a very detailed discussion of the topic, here you go: Â Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4 Link 5 Link 6 Link 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Â I don't know if I have that long right now. I'll try to read this sometime soon, cause I think it's interesting. Besides, technology like this, if it's done right, is a great investment opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 08:07 PM) Â I don't know if I have that long right now. I'll try to read this sometime soon, cause I think it's interesting. Besides, technology like this, if it's done right, is a great investment opportunity. That's actually one of the big debate topics there...as one of the guys involved in the debates is investing heavily in ethanol technologies, while the other is contending it won't work and ever be profitable without government subsidies (as it is now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 $2 gas "more likely than unlikely" Â Me personally, I'll believe it when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samclemens Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 01:33 PM) $2 gas "more likely than unlikely"Â Me personally, I'll believe it when I see it. Â Oskaloosa, Iowa- $2.05 today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 QUOTE(samclemens @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 12:36 PM) Oskaloosa, Iowa- $2.05 today  The national average is 2.61. That's the number that matters, not a single outlier in Iowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 12:33 PM) $2 gas "more likely than unlikely"Â Me personally, I'll believe it when I see it. Â I'll say it again, and that article echos it: the market will NOT sustain gas at the current levels. Â Nor will it ever, by some estimates. I forget where I read that, but it would seem to be a farce to think that it will ever come to the amount of energy to even make a dent on our oil consumption. Â True. To get to the levels they would like to see it at, all of the corn production in a large portion of the midwest would have to go towards ethanol. That's as technology and resources stand now, though. As NSS said, there's much more promising developements, it'll just take some time and a whole lot of money to get there. Edited September 13, 2006 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) More importantly my car needs to make a damn noise when I am out of gas so I stop running out nowhere near a gas station. Edited September 13, 2006 by WHarris1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 06:44 PM) I'll say it again, and that article echos it: the market will NOT sustain gas at the current levels. True. To get to the levels they would like to see it at, all of the corn production in a large portion of the midwest would have to go towards ethanol. That's as technology and resources stand now, though. As NSS said, there's much more promising developements, it'll just take some time and a whole lot of money to get there. Even then, it still takes oil to run the farm equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 13, 2006 -> 12:35 AM) Even then, it still takes oil to run the farm equipment. Not if you use Oxen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Along the lines of this topic, BMW is rolling out a Hydrogen car. Its good to see things starting to move in that direction. Â Hydrogen Car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 13, 2006 -> 12:35 AM) Even then, it still takes oil to run the farm equipment. If the fuel for the equipment is not oil-based, and the oil used in the engine is synthetic, then in fact zero oil is used by the farm equipment. Â Or did you mean right now, with current technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 12:38 PM) The national average is 2.61. That's the number that matters, not a single outlier in Iowa. Â It matters to me because I love having cheaper gas in Iowa. Last I knew it was like 2.25 in Cedar Falls, but that was on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Sep 13, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) It matters to me because I love having cheaper gas in Iowa. Last I knew it was like 2.25 in Cedar Falls, but that was on Sunday. Â 2.19 in Des Moines, and that is the Super Unleaded, which is cheaper than Regular Unleaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Saw 2.44 on my way to work today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samclemens Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 World has tapped just 18 percent of global oil supplies, Saudi executive says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 QUOTE(samclemens @ Sep 13, 2006 -> 11:33 AM) World has tapped just 18 percent of global oil supplies, Saudi executive says Yesssss...keep using the oil....yesss.....don't worry there's plenty....yessss.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 QUOTE(samclemens @ Sep 13, 2006 -> 01:33 PM) World has tapped just 18 percent of global oil supplies, Saudi executive says  I remember having a science textbook in like 3rd or 4th grade that said we would be out of oil by the year 2000-2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 QUOTE(samclemens @ Sep 13, 2006 -> 01:33 PM) World has tapped just 18 percent of global oil supplies, Saudi executive says Well, that may or may not be true, but I sure as heck wouldn't take a Saudi oil exec's word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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