Mark Buehrle and his "slump"

[whitesoxfan101]

Mark moved to 4-2 with a 3.42 ERA on the year and we are now 6-2 in games Mark starts (we beat KC 3-2 in a recent ND for Mark, and in the opener Mark only pitched 4 innings). I can't wait to see him when this "slump" is over. Yeah you can say the ERA is deceiving since he gave up 7 runs in the 1st tonight I guess, but Mark could have easily been out of the 1st without anything allowed if not for the sidearm throw to 2nd (although he did it, but you see my point).

 

That is all.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Reconstructed inning.

 

Single

out

Single

out

Single -- Run

out

---------- End of inning

 

------- Theoretical start of second inning.

Double

Double -- Run

Single

Single -- Run

out

out

 

One of the deficiencies in the Earned run stat is it completely overlooks situations like this where the pitcher is REALLY REALLY bad.

[whitesoxfan101]

Reconstructed inning.

 

Single

out

Single

out

Single -- Run

out

---------- End of inning

 

------- Theoretical start of second inning.

Double

Double -- Run

Single

Single -- Run

out

out

 

One of the deficiencies in the Earned run stat is it completely overlooks situations like this where the pitcher is REALLY REALLY bad.

 

You bring up a valid point, however if the plays are made on defense and that inning ends, who's to say Buehrle doesn't settle down and pitch fine in the 2nd. Obviously a vet like Buehrle shouldn't get rattled after things go bad and are bizarre like that, but that 1st inning was SO weird and I'll give him a pass, especially since he settled down afterwards.

[Sox Machine]

It'd also be nice if the earned run accounted for times when the pitcher made the error.

 

My one complaint about Buehrle is that he let in an enormous amount of unearned runs. He led the league in the department last year with 17, and has 48 over the last three years.

 

Meanwhile, Garland, who had the reputation for years as a pitcher who couldn't overcome mistakes, has allowed only 20 during that stretch. Part of that's due to the discrepancy in innings pitched over the years, but a larger part is days like these.

 

Buehrle's six unearned runs in six innings tonight match Garland's total from 221 innings last season.

Edited May 15, 2006 by Sox Machine

[Heads22]

You mean unearned?

[SoxAce]

In Buehrle's standards... this is a slump for him.

[Chisoxfn]

Reconstructed inning.

 

Single

out

Single

out

Single -- Run

out

---------- End of inning

 

------- Theoretical start of second inning.

Double

Double -- Run

Single

Single -- Run

out

out

 

One of the deficiencies in the Earned run stat is it completely overlooks situations like this where the pitcher is REALLY REALLY bad.

Thats fine, but after getting rattled a pitcher may pitch differently. Look at Kevin Millwood, he was so dominant last season because he got guys out when it mattered. Often times last year he'd give up hits to start an inning and than shut people down or vice versa.

 

There is no way to assume had Buehrle gotten through that he'd have given up all those hits to the next batters. Thats the thing with stats, they assume a lot of things when you look into them very in depth.

 

Its like assuming Pods (even if he didn't run) wouldn't help a 2 hole hitter when he's on base. A stat guy may say Pods isn't valuable. Someone that watches baseball may see him hit near .300 with a solid OBP and steal a lot of bases (although not always as sucessful as you'd like). They may deem that unnecessary.

 

However, you also have important factors such as Iguchi (or whoever is hitting behind him when Pods is on base) seeing more fastballs (ie better pitches to drive) and therefor they should see there avg rise (of course we all know Iguchi will also give himself up from time to time).

 

I say watch the game and the stats will make sense. You can use them as a way to evaluating whether a player is living up to his potential, but you can't use stats to tell you whether the team is winning or not (aside from the total score stat at the end of the game).

[Heads22]

I hate it when you analyze.

[DBAHO]

So how many hits has he given up in his past 4 starts now?

 

It always seems that when he's in one of these slumps (and he will go thru one a season), that he will be giving up a lot of hits.

[Kalapse]

Mark Buehlre's Run Average for what it's worth is 4.44.

[SoxAce]

This was actually an interesting quote on one of the sox articles.

 

Only one of the seven runs was earned against Buehrle, who allowed 12 hits over six-plus innings, walking two and striking out three. Buehrle has allowed 39 hits over his last 24 2/3 innings, but part of that total could come from the left-hander tipping his pitches out of both the stretch and the windup.

 

Mike Gellinger, the White Sox computer analyst who assists hitting coach Greg Walker, noticed Buehrle was moving his glove to certain spots, depending on the pitch. From the second inning on, Buehrle kept his glove in the same location.

 

"I have to credit my turnaround for that [change]," Buehrle said.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I say watch the game and the stats will make sense.

Unearned runs rarely make sense.

 

Do they count less than earned ones?

[jackie hayes]

Just more proof. Mark Buehrle is not an ace.

[Kalapse]

Just more proof. Mark Buehrle is not an ace.

Edited May 15, 2006 by Kalapse

[SoxAce]

Just more proof. Mark Buehrle is not an ace.

 

Oooooohhhh this is gonna get interesting....

[daa84]

This was actually an interesting quote on one of the sox articles.

and ppl say stat nerds never watch baseball

[Sox Machine]

You mean unearned?

 

D'oh. You are correct, and my post has been amended.

[Pastime]

According to the guys on the Sox radio broadcast, Buehrle is not getting his changeup over the plate, so the hitters are waiting for his other stuff, which isn't overpowering.

[YASNY]

It'd also be nice if the earned run accounted for times when the pitcher made the error.

 

My one complaint about Buehrle is that he let in an enormous amount of unearned runs. He led the league in the department last year with 17, and has 48 over the last three years.

 

Meanwhile, Garland, who had the reputation for years as a pitcher who couldn't overcome mistakes, has allowed only 20 during that stretch. Part of that's due to the discrepancy in innings pitched over the years, but a larger part is days like these.

 

Buehrle's six unearned runs in six innings tonight match Garland's total from 221 innings last season.

 

The problem with that is the ERA is to measure a pitcher's effectiveness as a pitcher, not a defender. I remember asking my father about this situation when I was about 8 years old.

[southsider2k5]

Just more proof. Mark Buehrle is not an ace.

 

Yeah an ace would have gone out there, not given up anymore runs, given his team a chance to win, and pitched into the seventh saving the bullpen from being blown up with a low pitch count fifth starter coming up in two days.

[RibbieRubarb]

Just more proof. Mark Buehrle is not an ace.

 

 

Alright...I'll bite.

 

Who is an "ACE"?

[Texsox]

Yeah an ace would have gone out there, not given up anymore runs, given his team a chance to win, and pitched into the seventh saving the bullpen from being blown up with a low pitch count fifth starter coming up in two days.

 

But if he did that, he would be the first pitcher in over 100 years to give up 7 first inning runs and earn a win.

[WCSox]

Just more proof. Mark Buehrle is not an ace.

 

I guess that depends on how one defines "ace." He's not in the same tier as Santana, but he's still one of the best starters in the league.

 

Whether he was tipping his pitches in the first or flustered by the errors, he calmed down, made the necessary adjustments, and shut down the Twinkies afterwards. That's what a veteran pitche, and day I say an "ace", does.

 

It was also nice to see Bobby locating that hook again last night.

[Steff]

Whether he was tipping his pitches in the first or flustered by the errors, he calmed down, made the necessary adjustments, and shut down the Twinkies afterwards. That's what a veteran pitcher, and day I say an "ace", does.

 

 

 

Exactly why, IMO, Oz wasn't even thinking about taking him out in the first.

[southsider2k5]

I guess that depends on how one defines "ace." He's not in the same tier as Santana, but he's still one of the best starters in the league.

 

Whether he was tipping his pitches in the first or flustered by the errors, he calmed down, made the necessary adjustments, and shut down the Twinkies afterwards. That's what a veteran pitche, and day I say an "ace", does.

 

It was also nice to see Bobby locating that hook again last night.

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring up Bobby. He was nasty last night. The gun had him at 98-99 consistantly AND he was dropping the curve for a strike. Its almost unfair when he has both going for him.