KW speaks about the offseason

[ptatc]

Oh boo friggin who. I'm quite sick of hearing about the WBC as an excuse for Freddy. He pitched 7 1/3rd innings over two outings. We're not talking about a guy who threw two complete games in the WBC.WTF, Joaquin Arias? Why the hell do you guys talk about him like he's Brandon Wood? His OBP was under .300 this year IN THE PCL!!!!!! His career minor league OPS is barely over .700. I'd rather hand the starting job over to Pedro Lopez than trade for Arias...

 

It's not a matter of how many innings he pitched there. It's the decreased time off, coupled with beginning the workouts earlier and the stress on the arm. There are only two things which cause a decrease in velocity: being worn down or injury. Both of these change the mechanics of throwing. Since he didn't miss a start I don't think it's injury. Now say what you want about not believing in the pitchers being tired but with the decreased velocity you tell me what the answer is. You may not have the professional baseball experience but lat me tell you they do get tired after a long season and the amount of innings and stress does effect the pitchers that next season. You'll see from my posts early in the season you could tell these guys especially MB and FG were worn down.

[elrockinMT]

Stick with who we have and go with a six man rotation. I like the idea and maybe if the team had gone with six starters this year (you don't have to use the sixth man every sixth day mind you) maybe the starters would have been better. I think our biggest problem is shoring up the bullpen. If we can upgrade at LF and maybe CF then great, but I don't see it being the same priority as the pen.

 

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Sep 30, 2006 -> 11:04 AM)

 

trade Javy, not freddy. Let him have a good half with someone else. We need someone to have a good year. Freddy was never right coming off the WBC. Let him go home and harvest his crops, kick it, and come back strong.

 

 

from whitesoxfan

I'm just gonna go ahead and pretend this is a joke.

 

I'd rather have 1 good half from Vazquez then no good halves from Garcia

 

 

I wouldn't trade either of them. Garcia has done what the others should have done and that's work on being more effective. He has shown what he can do and it's be dominant. The new picth or improved pitch he has come up with and his ability to mix them up plus an increase in speed in his fastball has made him a consistent winner again. We have a good group of players and with just a little tweaking will be right in there again next season.

[Wanne]

This whole thing about Ozzie not being on the same page as KW is gonna get to be an interesting war or wills...and Ozzie WILL lose. I wouldn't cry if he got so pissed out about somebody telling him how to run his team and just walked (of course expecting KW and the entire Sox fanbase to chase him down to kiss his ass to come back). But he really does need to get with the program.

 

Personally I never was thrilled with the 6 man rotation idea unless the 6th starter was used as a "rover-type" player and inserted for guys to completely miss a start here and there instead of just an extra days rest...especially late in the season (really...would that have made much difference...one extra day's rest?).

[Flash Tizzle]

Stick with who we have and go with a six man rotation. I like the idea and maybe if the team had gone with six starters this year (you don't have to use the sixth man every sixth day mind you) maybe the starters would have been better. I think our biggest problem is shoring up the bullpen. If we can upgrade at LF and maybe CF then great, but I don't see it being the same priority as the pen.

It'll never happen next season. You do realize Buehrle and Garcia may be playing for contracts, right? There's a selfish angle here you have to consider. Wins = money; and it's nearly impossible to approach 20 wins with a six man rotation.

 

It would have actually made sense this year, but the players still opposed the idea. They have their routines and are unwilling to change it.

[beck72]

This whole thing about Ozzie not being on the same page as KW is gonna get to be an interesting war or wills...and Ozzie WILL lose. I wouldn't cry if he got so pissed out about somebody telling him how to run his team and just walked (of course expecting KW and the entire Sox fanbase to chase him down to kiss his ass to come back). But he really does need to get with the program.

 

It was KW who got on Ozzie's page after the 2004 season--after playing with a softball team for 4 yrs. I think both understand the importance of pitching. But KW seems to love the long ball [and players he's gotten in trades/ drafted] more than Ozzie. KW has far more of an agenda holding onto players he's drafted or traded for. Ozzie has to try and win with what he has--no matter where they came from. If you were manager, wouldn't you want your kind of players? For Ozzie, it's guys who can make contact/ situational hit/ create their own offense rather than swing for the fences and hit into DP's.

 

KW is the one who needs to get with the program and get a few more guys who can get on base for the big boppers.

[fathom]

KW is the one who needs to get with the program and get a few more guys who can get on base for the big boppers.

 

Super....does this mean we can make more trades like Carlos Lee for Pods? Maybe we can trade Thome for Joey Gathright, or Konerko for Kenny Lofton. The "big boopers" on our team were great this year. It's just that guys like Pods, Anderson, etc., sucked, and they were supposed to be our smallball guys.

[beck72]

Super....does this mean we can make more trades like Carlos Lee for Pods? Maybe we can trade Thome for Joey Gathright, or Konerko for Kenny Lofton. The "big boopers" on our team were great this year. It's just that guys like Pods, Anderson, etc., sucked, and they were supposed to be our smallball guys.

 

When you have Dye, Thome, Pk, AJ, and Crede with career yrs and still not make the playoffs, yes, some different type hitters are needed. I'm not saying any of those should go. Those are the spots to have the HR's and non-speed guys. Just that other guys around them have to have a different skill set. The sox have too many guys with the same type of skills on offense. Now, isn't that "super"?

[Kalapse]

So then all of you who want to keep Garcia would be willing to give him a 3 year big $$$ contract extension right now right? Because if you're not then he needs to be traded.

 

He is 4-1 with a 2.49 era in Sept. 7-3 since Aug. If all of our starting pitching put up # like Freddy, we would be in the playoffs. To me Freddy is the only one who showed up!

How the hell is a 5.72 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, .299 BAA in August showing up?? He had his worst month when the team needed him most.

[SnB]

Out of all the different directions that Kenny can go this offseason, I could honestly see him just sticking Sweeney in LF, trading Garcia for the best package of prospects he can get, make some minor tweaks to the bench and bullpen, and call it a winter. I think KW wants to get back to having an elite defense (the 06 Sox were good defensively, not great), and obviously, have a staff that ranks just sliiiiightly better than 10th (or whatever it was) in the AL in ERA.

honestly, even if this is all kenny does this offseason, I like our chances for next year.

 

That shows just how good of a core this team has.

[beck72]

So then all of you who want to keep Garcia would be willing to give him a 3 year big $$$ contract extension right now right? Because if you're not then he needs to be traded.

Thank you. I thought I was the only one not willing to give Freddy a big new contract based on his hot streak.

[Flash Tizzle]

When you have Dye, Thome, Pk, AJ, and Crede with career yrs and still not make the playoffs, yes, some different type hitters are needed. I'm not saying any of those should go. Those are the spots to have the HR's and non-speed guys. Just that other guys around them have to have a different skill set. The sox have too many guys with the same type of skills on offense. Now, isn't that "super"?

Uh, starting pitching? Bullpen inconsistencies? These issues are more important to address than our offense.

 

Did you happen to read Balta's post earlier this week? This years offense was shut out less, produced a higher output of runs, and was far more consistent across the season. It was hardly the problem.

 

What Williams needs is players capable of adequately hitting lefthanded pitching. Leftfielder should have decent numbers, as any new OF/IF backup.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[beck72]

Uh, starting pitching? Bullpen inconsistencies?

 

The offense isn't blameless, is what I'm saying. I wasn't ranking the causes of the sox 2006 downfall. If you think the sox offense is complete, so be it. I don't.

 

Uh, starting pitching? Bullpen inconsistencies?

And what's the deal with the Buerhle hate? One bad season and he's all that in your sig?!

Edited September 30, 2006 by beck72

[That funky motion]

So then all of you who want to keep Garcia would be willing to give him a 3 year big $$$ contract extension right now right? Because if you're not then he needs to be traded.

How the hell is a 5.72 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, .299 BAA in August showing up?? He had his worst month when the team needed him most.

 

I knew you would bring up Aug and Ignore Sept. The last time I checked we were in it at the start of Sept.

 

The only one who did better in Aug was JG! MB 2-2 Count 1-3 Javy 2-2. We are talking about wins here, right? To me thats all that counts.

[Kalapse]

I knew you would bring up Aug and Ignore Sept. The last time I checked we were in it at the start of Sept.

 

The only one who did better in Aug was JG! MB 2-2 Count 1-3 Javy 2-2. We are talking about wins here, right? To me thats all that counts.

Why would I look at a team stat when evaluating the effectiveness of a pitcher?

[Flash Tizzle]

The offense isn't blameless, is what I'm saying. I wasn't ranking the causes of the sox 2006 downfall. If you think the sox offense is complete, so be it. I don't.

And what's the deal with the Buerhle hate? One bad season and he's all that in your sig?!

It's not complete. I just rather devote attention to improving our pitching.

 

Let's just put it this way: if the choice was given to leave one area of the team exactly as it is entering next season (between lineup/pitching), I'd pick the lineup. Even if they continue struggles against lefthanders within the division, or any lefthander overall, we'd still win above 90 games with more consistent pitching staff.

 

And what's the deal with the Buerhle hate? One bad season and he's all that in your sig?!

Yes.

 

"Aces" don't regress this far without reason. "Aces" don't literally collapse when their needed during a pennant run. For 9 million entering next season, I'm setting expectations high. As everyone does with Vazquez, Buehrle, or any other of our high-priced starters. You don't perform, you'll be criticized in my book. I don't give players passes over an entire season. People struggle for weeks. Sometimes a month. But for literally three months? For someone with Buehrle's credentials? Not when our window of opportunity is practically closed and Buehrle isn't even the fifth best lefty in the his own division. Unfortunately, he's paid otherwise.

 

And because I know the similarity will be drawn, yes, Konerko had his dismal season as well and rebounded. Buehrle will have next season to prove himself. Whether with us or another club. But as of now, I'm far too disgusted with his performance.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[beck72]

Did you happen to read Balta's post earlier this week? This years offense was shut out less, produced a higher output of runs, and was far more consistent across the season. It was hardly the problem.

 

What Williams needs is players capable of adequately hitting lefthanded pitching. Leftfielder should have decent numbers, as any new OF/IF backup.

 

So replacing Pods and getting a platoon player will address the weak areas of the sox offense? OK. I disagree. Personally, I'd get a new leadoff and #2 hitter [which could move Iguchi down in the order to provide speed and situational hitting]. Sign Pierre and trade Freddy for Coco Crisp [and a bullpen arm like Delcarmen or Hansen]. You could have those two swap #1 and #2 spots ala Pierre and Castillo in 2003 based on LHP or RHP.

 

It's not, but Thome,Dye,Kong,AJ, and Crede are not the problems like it seems you make them out to be.

 

I'm saying the guys around them are the problem not those guys.

[santo=dorf]

Pierre's and Crisp's OBP aren't that good, so how are they supposed to get on base for the big boppers?

[beck72]

Pierre's and Crisp's OBP aren't that good, so how are they supposed to get on base for the big boppers?

Both are .300 hitters. Crisp broke his finger in May and played all yr with it. He should get back to his 2004 and 2005 #'s at the #2 hole. Get him while his stock is low.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(beck72 @ Sep 30, 2006 -> 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Both are .300 hitters. Crisp broke his finger in May and played all yr with it. He should get back to his 2004 and 2005 #'s at the #2 hole. Get him while his stock is low.

Crisp OBP 2004: .344

OBP .2005: .345

 

....and he has never batted over .300.

 

Juan Pierre is about to set the record for lowest BA with 200 hits in a season. He just doesn't get on base enough.

[ZoSo]

"It's going to take one heck of a player to remove Juan Uribe, who, if we didn't have last year, we wouldn't be wearing these rings," Williams said.

 

I like what I've heard from KW overall and I agree with this, too. Uribe is what he is and he had a bad year with the bat, even for him. His glove is very valuable to this team and Cintron is not an every day player, period.

[kwolf68]

Freddy should not be made available. I think we should listen to offers, but we are going to need to be blown away to move Freddy.

 

Say the Mets want him...

 

I would take nothing less than a major league ready player, Mike Pelfrey and Carlos Gomez. Gomez, while a great young talent is in AA, Pelfrey is still farily unproven so they'd have to deal us something else with GOmez and Pelfrey...maybe we'd get another stud prospect. Garcia is proven goods, and the guy is far from washed up. Freddy eats innings, is durable, and wins...I dont want him dealt...but if someone wants him, they need to pay the fiddler.

 

Who the heck knows what we are going to do...I want more speed in the order yes..A left fielder and a contigency for Anderson in center...If he falters next year we need to replace him. I'd like to have a speedy shortstop as well, but Uribe is fine.

[beck72]

Crisp OBP 2004: .344

OBP .2005: .345

 

....and he has never batted over .300.

 

Juan Pierre is about to set the record for lowest BA with 200 hits in a season. He just doesn't get on base enough.

Technically you are correct. Crisp never hit ABOVE .300. He hit .300 in 2005. And .297 in '04. My bad. He's horrible.

 

And Pierre? A guy leads the league in hits and he doesn't get on base enough? You got me.

 

I guess I didn't see your offseason to-do list. But it's fine to criticize.

[Dick Allen]

Pierre's and Crisp's OBP aren't that good, so how are they supposed to get on base for the big boppers?

Pods real OBP is much lower than his stated obp which isn't too great to begin with, if you take his CS and getting picked off into consideration. Pierre would be a far better choice to leadoff. He actually makes contact which would enable the Sox to play some hit and runs and the like when the bottom of the order gets on. I'm not a huge fan of Pierre, but I think he would be a pretty good LF replacement. I'm not so sure I like him in CF, but he can get to balls, he just can't throw. The White Sox got by and had a few great teams though with the One Dog in Cf, and Tim Raines in LF. Both those guys threw no better than Pods or Pierre.

[beck72]

.350 OBP>>>.300 hitters in the 1 and 2 holes, especailly with the makeup of this team.

 

The sox don't have either. With the make up of this team, the sox need more speed/ contact guys/ guys who can get on base by putting it in play. Both Pierre and Crisp use their speed to get on base, and steal once on.

 

Any changes should be made that expect the 3-7 hitters to fall off at least somewhat off what they did this yr. They were incredible. All the more reason to upgrade at other spots.

 

Maybe I'm late 'coming to the party' but what is your plan for the offense/ lineup for 2007?

 

So you want to move Iguchi out of the two hole for guys that have worse OBP than he does?

 

It's not just me. But ozzie's been intent on getting someone else in there for the last 2 yrs. Iguchi gets on base. But he also strikes out a lot. Tad's the best option the sox have at the #2 hole now. Crisp isn't the best leadoff hitter. But he's put up some nice numbers in the 2 hole and does the things a #2 hitter Ozzie likes--bunts well, makes contact-low K's/ steals bases/ hits to all fields.

 

Iguchi's speed and power could be utilized in the bottom 3rd of the lineup--another thing Ozzie has said he would like.

[CWSGuy406]

And Pierre? A guy leads the league in hits and he doesn't get on base enough? You got me.

 

His OBP is .329 coming into today. Even Scott f***ing Podsednik had a higher OBP coming into today.

 

So yes, he doesn't get on base enough.

 

You don't seem to get it.