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More bad vibes regarding Brian Anderson

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Couldn't it just be that the White Sox won a World Series? The White Sox post World Series Championship is a completely different organization than it was pre Championship.

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 09:55 AM)
He can be Aaron Rowand, though, which I believe many people would be fine with.

 

On a side note, 20 pounds in two weeks...jesus.

I don't think thats all that likely. He's have to make serious adjustments to get to that. I laughed last year when everyone said he'd do better than Aaron offensively. Aaron had his flaws at the plate but he's a superior offensive player to Anderson (at this point in time). Defensively Anderson was damn good but Rowand is still top notch as well and if we had Rowand he would have been out there (had he stayed healthy).

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't have traded Rowand though, so don't put me in that category. But I laugh at all this blind optimism about Anderson.

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QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 11:59 AM)
Couldn't it just be that the White Sox won a World Series? The White Sox post World Series Championship is a completely different organization than it was pre Championship.

 

I'm pretty sure we got to that point because of chemistry, pitching and defense as well as hitting. No doubt, Brian sucked at the plate for the majority of the year, but it seems strange that we'd change our modus operandi after something got us to point B. I don't mean keeping the same personnel, but the same way of getting things done.

 

This years third place finish was a total team effort, that's for sure.

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 10:02 AM)
I'm pretty sure we got to that point because of chemistry, pitching and defense as well as hitting. No doubt, Brian sucked at the plate for the majority of the year, but it seems strange that we'd change our modus operandi after something got us to point B. I don't mean keeping the same personnel, but the same way of getting things done.

 

This years third place finish was a total team effort, that's for sure.

I think he's referring to the fact that we need to have a ton of cheap players around. If the post-world series team wants to spend 115-120 million than they can do so without as much reliance on the farm system (notice I don't say without any because you still need to have talent to use in trades or to ocassionally bring up).

 

However I still think this team could make other moves and decide Anderson isn't the guy. Right now I think its 80/20 that Anderson won't be the starting CFer (if not higher). I think its about 40/60 as to whether he's even in the org next year.

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QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 12:01 PM)
I don't think thats all that likely. He's have to make serious adjustments to get to that. I laughed last year when everyone said he'd do better than Aaron offensively. Aaron had his flaws at the plate but he's a superior offensive player to Anderson (at this point in time). Defensively Anderson was damn good but Rowand is still top notch as well and if we had Rowand he would have been out there (had he stayed healthy).

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't have traded Rowand though, so don't put me in that category. But I laugh at all this blind optimism about Anderson.

 

I just remember ARow with just ugly looking swings when he came up. Of course not as bad as Brian, but we've seen he can hit at all levels up til now. I'm not saying he'll be the next Vernon Wells or anything and you know that, but you know that I love to be optimistic about guys like him. It's not even so much for me that people say he sucks at the plate....he has. I can see talent in there, and I guess it irks me more about the way stuff has been handled more than him flat out sucking, etc.

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 11:58 AM)
I'm never wrong.

 

If he's moved, something was indeed up. We've been so willing to bring up guys like Crede and Rowand to let them develop at their own pace, more or less - more than one season as well. There has to be something that we don't know about.

 

Exactly. When the Sox believe in a kid, they go out of their way to try to give them every chance to catch on. Geesh, how long did we suffer through a mediocre Jon Garland and Kip Wells before the Sox finally gave up on them? The only talented guys the Sox give up on quickly are guys where something else is going on. I guess I thought there was more "win now" stuff going on last year after the World Series, but if they are already trying to move the kid, while making a spot for Brandon McCarthy, who suffered through the same odd usages last year, that tells me something about Anderson pissed off someone pretty important within the Sox organization.

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QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 12:04 PM)
I think he's referring to the fact that we need to have a ton of cheap players around. If the post-world series team wants to spend 115-120 million than they can do so without as much reliance on the farm system (notice I don't say without any because you still need to have talent to use in trades or to ocassionally bring up).

 

However I still think this team could make other moves and decide Anderson isn't the guy. Right now I think its 80/20 that Anderson won't be the starting CFer (if not higher). I think its about 40/60 as to whether he's even in the org next year.

 

Well, if that's the case, we better not be seeing some crappy stopgap solution.

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 12:02 PM)
I'm pretty sure we got to that point because of chemistry, pitching and defense as well as hitting. No doubt, Brian sucked at the plate for the majority of the year, but it seems strange that we'd change our modus operandi after something got us to point B. I don't mean keeping the same personnel, but the same way of getting things done.

 

This years third place finish was a total team effort, that's for sure.

 

That just it, we didn't. Brandon McCarthy actually regressed through last year, and what are we doing with him? Trading a starting pitcher to move him into the rotation. There is something up with Brian specifically.

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It all comes down to Kenny in the end. He got us one ring......and he also traded away Reed, Young and Rowand, opening up the way for this guy. Is his trust really gone or is this more media than anything? There's no quotes about him other than Razor's blurb.

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 10:06 AM)
Well, if that's the case, we better not be seeing some crappy stopgap solution.

I don't expect that. I would not be pleased if that were the case.

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Just because the Sox have stuck with others who have struggled doesn't mean they would stick with BA if there weren't 'anything else' going on. Especially when he struggled so much worse than the others. Neither Crede nor Rowand nor McCarthy nor Garland ever had a season this bad. As a whole, this is one of the worst seasons any Sox play has had in the last decade, at least.

 

I like the communist theory.

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QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 10:06 AM)
That just it, we didn't. Brandon McCarthy actually regressed through last year, and what are we doing with him? Trading a starting pitcher to move him into the rotation. There is something up with Brian specifically.

First we got to actually do it. But I don't necessarily think McCarthy regressed, he learned some things and stayed mature and strong throughout the season. That said he still wasn't awful. Yes he struggled like heck out of the pen but BA flat out stunk.

 

However I love BA's attitude and can't believe the Sox don't like it either.

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Lets change this up a bit. Will Brian Anderson be our starting CF next year yes or no? and why

 

I say yes they will give him another chance at turning it around. How many chances did KW give Rowand before he finally developed into a solid player? They gave him like 3-4 chances before finally keeping him as our starting CF. In 2002 they demoted him and aqcuired Lofton. In 2003 he started, but then was demoted because of poor offense and they aqcuired Carl Everett. In 2004 he finally developed into a solid player and 2005 he broke out defensively and got the job done offensively.

I think KW has patience with his players, however, this time i don't think he'll be as hesitant to make a move to replace Anderson if he still is struggling by the AS break. Patience has payed off with Garland, Rowand and Crede. But will it pay off with Anderson? Is he a bust? He has 4 months to prove that he is worthy to play every day in CF.

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This isn't the NBA. Knee jerk, gut instinct reactions happen.

 

There were times when I played competitively that I'd smile while shaking my head or something of that sort knowing that I should've, could've, and would've made that play and not botched it.

 

If Ozzie was mad about that, that's ridiculous.

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Different people react in different ways. Having a smile on your face after botching a ball shouldn't be the reason some team lets you go.

 

That's all I'm saying.

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QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 12:01 PM)
I don't think thats all that likely. He's have to make serious adjustments to get to that. I laughed last year when everyone said he'd do better than Aaron offensively. Aaron had his flaws at the plate but he's a superior offensive player to Anderson (at this point in time). Defensively Anderson was damn good but Rowand is still top notch as well and if we had Rowand he would have been out there (had he stayed healthy).

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't have traded Rowand though, so don't put me in that category. But I laugh at all this blind optimism about Anderson.

 

I disagree. Rowand is a 270-280 hitter with 15-20 HR per year. I think that is very attainable for BA. It was a rookie year. He'll adjust just like all players must do to be successful. BA's 2nd half ave was 257. Rowand hit about 262 for the year limited to the nose and ankle injuries. BA's defense will also be better than Rowand over the course of his career.

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QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 01:35 PM)
Lets change this up a bit. Will Brian Anderson be our starting CF next year yes or no? and why

 

I say yes they will give him another chance at turning it around. How many chances did KW give Rowand before he finally developed into a solid player? They gave him like 3-4 chances before finally keeping him as our starting CF. In 2002 they demoted him and aqcuired Lofton. In 2003 he started, but then was demoted because of poor offense and they aqcuired Carl Everett. In 2004 he finally developed into a solid player and 2005 he broke out defensively and got the job done offensively.

I think KW has patience with his players, however, this time i don't think he'll be as hesitant to make a move to replace Anderson if he still is struggling by the AS break. Patience has payed off with Garland, Rowand and Crede. But will it pay off with Anderson? Is he a bust? He has 4 months to prove that he is worthy to play every day in CF.

 

Based off that scenario, I think it would be highly probable if someone else other than Anderson is starting in CF in 2007. From a lineup perspective, you have to figure Uribe or Anderson will not be starting or on the team next year. There were too many automatic outs at the bottom of the order.

 

The one thing Anderson has in his favor is his salary/age. He provides payroll relief for other positions. The same goes for B-Mac. So unless the Sox can find a fairly cheap alternative, Anderson will be back.

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 12:58 PM)
I'm never wrong.

 

If he's moved, something was indeed up. We've been so willing to bring up guys like Crede and Rowand to let them develop at their own pace, more or less - more than one season as well. There has to be something that we don't know about.

 

Neither of those guys were nearly as bad as Anderson was this year.

 

People are looking hard for a reason for the team wanting to rid themselves of this guy, such as his attitude, etc. But, maybe the team just feels that he sucks way too much to stick with him until he sucks just little enough to be serviceable?

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 11:58 AM)
I'm never wrong.

 

God bless you Alex.. :lol:

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QUOTE(SoxAce @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 03:10 PM)
God bless you Alex.. :lol:

:P :P

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QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 06:27 PM)
Just because the Sox have stuck with others who have struggled doesn't mean they would stick with BA if there weren't 'anything else' going on. Especially when he struggled so much worse than the others. Neither Crede nor Rowand nor McCarthy nor Garland ever had a season this bad. As a whole, this is one of the worst seasons any Sox play has had in the last decade, at least.

 

I like the communist theory.

 

Anderson has struggled worse than the others? Crede nor Rowand were never this bad? Now that is a bit of exaggeration. People have short memories.

 

Anderson would be fine if Uribe and Pods would have done anything to help this team. Some of the players below were in their first full year, others had the year after a couple of years. Ventura was putrid when he first came up (0-41, I think).

 

I'm not saying BA is going to be a Ventura, a Crede, or even a Rowand or Cameron...but I think it is kind of hard to judge where he is going to end up after one season.

 

To be fair, I could have put the Jeff Abbotts and the McCay Christensens here too as they were bad and never got better.

 

Robin Ventura 1990 Chicago White Sox 150 493 48 123 17 1 5 54 157 55 53 1 4 .324 .318 .249

Mike Cameron 1998 Chicago White Sox 141 396 53 83 16 5 8 43 133 37 101 27 11 .285 .336 .210

Royce Clayton 2002 Chicago White Sox 112 342 51 86 14 2 7 35 125 20 67 5 1 .295 .365 .251

Aaron Rowand 2002 Chicago White Sox 126 302 41 78 16 2 7 29 119 12 54 0 1 .298 .394 .258

Paul Konerko 2003 Chicago White Sox 137 444 49 104 19 0 18 65 177 43 50 0 0 .305 .399 .234

Miguel Olivo 2003 Chicago White Sox 114 317 37 75 19 1 6 27 114 19 80 6 4 .287 .360 .237

Joe Crede 2004 Chicago White Sox 144 490 67 117 25 0 21 69 205 34 81 1 2 .299 .418 .239

Jose Valentin 2004 Chicago White Sox 125 450 73 97 20 3 30 70 213 43 139 8 6 .287 .473 .216

Timo Perez 2004 Chicago White Sox 103 293 38 72 12 0 5 40 99 15 29 3 1 .285 .338 .246

Brian Anderson 2006 Chicago White Sox 134 365 46 82 23 1 8 33 131 30 90 4 7 .290 .359 .225

 

If he is having troubles other than his stats, fine. If he refuses to adjust, ok. But don't write him off on his bad year based on stats alone.

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I don't think Anderson will be traded unless KW brings in a big name CF. Anderson had a tough year, but people must remember he was a rookie. While guys like Ron Kittle have their best years when they are rookies, I think Anderson is going to get better. He probably isn't headed to Cooperstown, but he hit .257 after the all star game last year I think. If he does that for an entire year and hits 14 or 15 homers, he's better than Aaron Rowand at a fraction of the cost.

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The writing is on the wall....Juan Pierre will be our starting CF next year.

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