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Whats Buehrle worth now?

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QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 11:11 AM)
All this stuff ............ Phil Rogers predicted a couple weeks ago. He was called a heretic by some I recall also .......

 

Well until it actually happens, people do have a point...

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QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 10:09 AM)
What is the difference between Kevin Brown/Mike Hampton and Jason Schmidt/Barry Zito?

Jason Schmidt's contract only lasts 3 years.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 11:17 AM)
Jason Schmidt's contract only lasts 3 years.

Schmidts deal is one of the steals of this off-season (if you could call many deals a steal). In addition, Adam Kennedy's signing was a tremendous move as well. Heck, I could make a case for the BoSox signing of Matsuzaka being one of the better signings this off-season as well (considering he has ace stuff and with any success will make Boston millions over-seas in addition to opening themselves up to being able to get other players from Japan).

 

Of course you got to judge that based on this off-season, which in general I'd call one of the worse off-seasons in the history of baseball (from a generic baseball perspective).

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QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 11:25 AM)
Of course you got to judge that based on this off-season, which in general I'd call one of the worse off-seasons in the history of baseball (from a generic baseball perspective).

Teams have been regretting those 99-00 deals for 5 years, and trying to move them ever since. The same thing will happen with a lot of these deals, especially the long-term FA deals.

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Are you for real. We have one of the top payrolls in the AL, and you are claiming JR is cheap.

 

I didn't mean to imply he's been cheap of late.

He was willing to up our payroll and it paid off in a World Series.

I'm saying it appears the owners are taking it to the next level again and from what I've read

in the Trib our management is appalled and going to let all the cogs from our Series team walk.

Our pitching cogs.

So I'm saying in the future ... if Jerry doesn't want to keep spending and have us in the top echelon

of payroll, sell the team.

 

But as of now ... I give Jerry credit for having a big enough payroll.

That's why I won't ever refer to him as Reinsdor(xxx) again. I will always be grateful for he, KW

and Oz giving us a title.

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QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 12:59 PM)
So I'm saying in the future ... if Jerry doesn't want to keep spending and have us in the top echelon

of payroll, sell the team.

 

But as of now ... I give Jerry credit for having a big enough payroll.

That's why I won't ever refer to him as Reinsdor(xxx) again. I will always be grateful for he, KW

and Oz giving us a title.

Here's the one problem with your logic...being in the upper echelon in payroll by no means guarantees you even a good chance at a winning season. Take a look at the Cubs or Red Sox last year if you want your prime examples...they spent a lot of money on specific positions, but wound up making some silly deals as well that tied up cash, cost them players, and left them unable to make it through the season when adversity hit.

 

If Kenny is willing to sell off some, or a lot of his players, but also brings in the next generation of youth at the same time, he puts himself in an ideal place to avoid getting stuck like the Cubs and Red Sox, having to spend $300 million in an offseason just to get back in contention.

 

It's much, much, much easier to plug a 5th starter hole or find a single position player than it is to totally rebuild a lineup or a pitching staff.

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Nothing groundbreaking here, but Levine was just on Carmen and Silvy and said this is absolutely Mark Buehrle's last year with the White Sox, IF he makes it THAT far. Apparently the White Sox made an offer in July, to which Mark declined, and there has been no further negotiations since. He seemed quite certain that no further attempts to extend him would be made, especially in light of Zito's contract.

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QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 30, 2006 -> 12:13 AM)
Nothing groundbreaking here, but Levine was just on Carmen and Silvy and said this is absolutely Mark Buehrle's last year with the White Sox, IF he makes it THAT far. Apparently the White Sox made an offer in July, to which Mark declined, and there has been no further negotiations since. He seemed quite certain that no further attempts to extend him would be made, especially in light of Zito's contract.

 

I would love to see the Sox get Lastings and Humber for Buehrle.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 06:16 PM)
I would love to see the Sox get Lastings and Humber for Buehrle.

 

To be honest with you, I am starting to like this Carlos Gomez kid even more so than Milledge.

 

I'd love a package of Pelfrey/Gomez.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 06:16 PM)
I would love to see the Sox get Lastings and Humber for Buehrle.

Considering what's at stake in 2007 if Buehrle is delt, Pelfrey's inclusion in any trade should be mandatory. Minaya doesn't want to trade him, Williams should forget about it and enter next season with our veterans remaining. Let them deal with Beane.

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QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 04:18 PM)
To be honest with you, I am starting to like this Carlos Gomez kid even more so than Milledge.

 

I'd love a package of Pelfrey/Gomez.

The stolen base numbers on Goimez are gaudy compared to Milledge, but Milledge has a much higher OBP throughout the minor leagues, and a much better K/BB ratio (both strikes out less and walks more). We're talking about OPS's in the mid 800's compared to OPS's in the md 700's. Not to mention Milledge being more MLB ready right now.

Edited by Balta1701

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QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 06:13 PM)
Nothing groundbreaking here, but Levine was just on Carmen and Silvy and said this is absolutely Mark Buehrle's last year with the White Sox, IF he makes it THAT far. Apparently the White Sox made an offer in July, to which Mark declined, and there has been no further negotiations since. He seemed quite certain that no further attempts to extend him would be made, especially in light of Zito's contract.

 

Not a surprise. Wonder if Mark was balking at the money or just the possibility of staying here.

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QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 01:29 AM)
Pay up, Jerry, or sell the team.

 

 

 

 

Stupid is as stupid does...

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With the contract that Zito signed, I think Mark is gone by opening day or July 31. There is no way that the Sox are going to pay a contract > Zito's and that is what Mark is looking at on the open market if he rebounds. If he doesn't rebound then he is looking at a Gil Meche contract at 5/55. Either way that is ridiculous, so from a fiscally responsible standpoint, Mark should be traded by July 31. I also think that Kenny has shifted his mentality from a large market to a small market GM. Something someone else said is that maybe the Sox need to change their stance on long-term deals for pitchers and position players, and if they don't, then maybe we turn into the KC Royals as the cellar dwellars of the AL Central. I don't know if this is entirely true, but it may be a possibility.

Edited by southsida86

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QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 06:51 PM)
Not a surprise. Wonder if Mark was balking at the money or just the possibility of staying here.

 

Knowing the Sox probably a little bit of the money, and a lot of the lack of years.

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I tend to think we have to hold on to Buehrle at least until the break, unless of course, Kenny can get 1 or 2 more guys on his board. I don't believe anything suggests Minyana is going to deal Pelfrey or Humber though; if he can get that deal done with the A's and get Blanton for Milledge, he'll ultimately make that deal in my opinion.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would love to see the Sox get Lastings and Humber for Buehrle.

 

 

 

I don't want Humber at all. I wan Pelfrey and Milledge. I could even like a deal involving Gomez instead of Milledge, however, I definitely want Pelfrey and NOT Humber.

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QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jan 2, 2007 -> 10:01 AM)
I don't want Humber at all. I wan Pelfrey and Milledge. I could even like a deal involving Gomez instead of Milledge, however, I definitely want Pelfrey and NOT Humber.

 

According to Steve Phillips, Minyana offered Milledge for Harden. Beane then countered with Blanton. Minyana turned that down.

 

If he rejected Blanton for Milledge, there is absolutely no way we are getting Pelfrey and Milledge, or Pelfrey and Gomez. It's too bad, but I don't think we're going to see a White Sox/Mets deal...

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QUOTE(iamshack @ Jan 2, 2007 -> 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
According to Steve Phillips, Minyana offered Milledge for Harden. Beane then countered with Blanton. Minyana turned that down.

 

If he rejected Blanton for Milledge, there is absolutely no way we are getting Pelfrey and Milledge, or Pelfrey and Gomez. It's too bad, but I don't think we're going to see a White Sox/Mets deal...

 

 

 

 

 

So be it. I think the Mets need Buehrle more this year than the Sox need Pelfrey and Milledge. The White Sox have what they need, it is up to them to make a logical offer. If not, then it is their loss and the Sox will move on.

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QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jan 2, 2007 -> 01:52 PM)
So be it. I think the Mets need Buehrle more this year than the Sox need Pelfrey and Milledge. The White Sox have what they need, it is up to them to make a logical offer. If not, then it is their loss and the Sox will move on.

 

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that the Mets need Buehrle more this year than the Sox need Pelfrey and Milledge. However, that doesn't mean that the Mets cannot fill the void elsewhere, which is what they will likely do.

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No way Mets give up Pelfry and Milledge or Pelfrey and anyone for Buehrle, Garland or Vasquez. So we might as well plug Buehrle into the rotation, get his solid performance over 2007 (contract year) giving us the best shot at WS title and let him walk (and get the draft picks).

 

I know we want to plan for the short and long-term but its one thing to ask Floyd et al to carry the small load as a 5th starter and a whole other to ask Vaquez to be a 3rd starter, Floyd 4th, Haeger/Broadway/Danks/Gio to be a 5th. So unless we get a viable upside MLB-experienced starter and a stud prospect back (Heilman/Milledge?? Personally, I would turn this down), I think the White Sox are closed for business in terms of trading another SP.

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QUOTE(heirdog @ Jan 2, 2007 -> 02:06 PM)
No way Mets give up Pelfry and Milledge or Pelfrey and anyone for Buehrle, Garland or Vasquez. So we might as well plug Buehrle into the rotation, get his solid performance over 2007 (contract year) giving us the best shot at WS title and let him walk (and get the draft picks).

 

I know we want to plan for the short and long-term but its one thing to ask Floyd et al to carry the small load as a 5th starter and a whole other to ask Vaquez to be a 3rd starter, Floyd 4th, Haeger/Broadway/Danks/Gio to be a 5th. So unless we get a viable upside MLB-experienced starter and a stud prospect back (Heilman/Milledge?? Personally, I would turn this down), I think the White Sox are closed for business in terms of trading another SP.

The only other starter I would want to dump at this point would be Vasquez. MB is all but gone after this year but Id rather get a solid season out of him while preparing these young guys in the minors then trade him for less then hes worth. It could be different at the trade deadline though.

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QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Jan 2, 2007 -> 02:45 PM)
The only other starter I would want to dump at this point would be Vasquez. MB is all but gone after this year but Id rather get a solid season out of him while preparing these young guys in the minors then trade him for less then hes worth. It could be different at the trade deadline though.

So you'd want to go into 2008 with 2 vets and 3 rookies/2nd year players in the rotation? Yeah that sounds fun.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 2, 2007 -> 12:52 PM)
So you'd want to go into 2008 with 2 vets and 3 rookies/2nd year players in the rotation? Yeah that sounds fun.

 

If the Sox are in first place at the All-Star break, I'll gladly go with 2 vets and 3 unprovens in '08 while taking another shot at the WS.

Edited by WCSox

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