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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:18 PM)
I am guessing it will, but this thing is ridiculous, I wouldnt be surprised to see everything of theirs integrated into one device as the standard in the future.

 

here is the live demo, its long but awesome

http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/j47d52oo/event/

 

i finally watched it, oh my god!!! the double tapping the screen to make it a wide screen movie...jesus.

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QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 03:01 PM)
i finally watched it, oh my god!!! the double tapping the screen to make it a wide screen movie...jesus.

Did you see the album browsing for the ipod feature and the sizing of pictures? Also the SMS texting and selective voicemail. Jesus.

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now, i would never need this for, well through college, but in my mind, if i was in the market for a blackberry, why would i not pay 50 extra bucks for this?

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QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:36 PM)
now, i would never need this for, well through college, but in my mind, if i was in the market for a blackberry, why would i not pay 50 extra bucks for this?

well it doesnt work like a blackberry. It doesnt work the same way with your exchange server and really isnt ideal for the working environment. Blackberrys do one thing very well, and thats email and outlook sync. This wouldnt really play in the same field, it is geared more towards people who use yahoo email and do not need to send upwards of 50 a day. Its more of a consumer product. I would have this in addition to my blackberry.

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I wonder if the phone features are hard drive dependent. With all the HD failures the iPod has had, I hope not.

Edited by BobDylan

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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 10:48 PM)
well it doesnt work like a blackberry. It doesnt work the same way with your exchange server and really isnt ideal for the working environment. Blackberrys do one thing very well, and thats email and outlook sync. This wouldnt really play in the same field, it is geared more towards people who use yahoo email and do not need to send upwards of 50 a day. Its more of a consumer product. I would have this in addition to my blackberry.

 

i. c.

 

bobdylan, we get it, you think that the ipods are inferior...blah blah.

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QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:06 PM)
i. c.

 

bobdylan, we get it, you think that the ipods are inferior...blah blah.

 

I was actually making a valid question. Aside from HD failure, is it going to be easy to transfer all of your information when newer models come out? Most phones have a SIM card or something equal. This makes it easy. Does Apple plan to sync devices with the computer so you can store and transfer information? Do I have to continually back up my phone numbers in case of a crash (something you never have to do with other phones unless you flat out break it)?

 

And other questions, I didn't watch the video, but how does e-mail work? Where's the keyboard? Does it have a touchscreen keyboard? Are the keys small? Does it support pop3?

 

Further questions, the Sidekick, thought I hate it, can use flash cards. With the technology and size progressing like mad on these, why did Apple choose to go with a HD instead of something as small, cheap and compatible as a flash card? They can only hold 2 gigs as of now, yes, but the size will only continue to grow and will allow the consumer to make their own choice. While music collections continue to grow, I'd say a good 99% of my friends aren't anywhere CLOSE to even 4 gigs of music. (EDIT HERE) At least 1/4th of the price of the phone is in the HD. If they make it without a HD, the phone costs something a bit more reasonable. And furthermore, if I can continue to upgrade the size of my phone, I don't 1) have to wait until they make their own model with more space (like they always do) and 2) shell out another $500 when it does come out.

 

If you want to know why I hate Apple, bmags, it's because Apple won't let me make my own decisions.

Edited by BobDylan

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QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 02:36 PM)
now, i would never need this for, well through college, but in my mind, if i was in the market for a blackberry, why would i not pay 50 extra bucks for this?

Considering it would replace your ipod as well this would be pretty nifty. Plus I'm sure prices would come down a bit.

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 11:19 PM)
I was actually making a valid question. Aside from HD failure, is it going to be easy to transfer all of your information when newer models come out? Most phones have a SIM card or something equal. This makes it easy. Does Apple plan to sync devices with the computer so you can store and transfer information? Do I have to continually back up my phone numbers in case of a crash (something you never have to do with other phones unless you flat out break it)?

 

And other questions, I didn't watch the video, but how does e-mail work? Where's the keyboard? Does it have a touchscreen keyboard? Are the keys small? Does it support pop3?

 

Further questions, the Sidekick, thought I hate it, can use flash cards. With the technology and size progressing like mad on these, why did Apple choose to go with a HD instead of something as small, cheap and compatible as a flash card? They can only hold 2 gigs as of now, yes, but the size will only continue to grow and will allow the consumer to make their own choice. While music collections continue to grow, I'd say a good 99% of my friends aren't anywhere CLOSE to even 4 gigs of music.

 

If you want to know why I hate Apple, bmags, it's because Apple won't let me make my own decisions.

 

it has an area for sim cards, it obviously synchs up with your computer, you can put word files on your iPod, of course you can synch up your phone and put contacts stored in your computer on your phone. All this is explained in the video. a phone like this has 4 gbs for a lot more than music. iPhone has OSX working on the iPhone. HD allows for the most possiblities works on flash memory, i don't know what pop3 is, but watch the video for the keyboard, its worth it. More than that, the gross majority of ipod crashes are due to user error, my friends treat their ipods like utter crap and are suprised when they don't last past the one year warranty. The two that treat them nicely have 3rd gen ipods and before that had their first gens for 3 years. upgraded after the battery life went below satisfactory.

 

the only major criticism you can make on this phone is battery life, and i suppose the possibility of spyware.

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QUOTE(Iwritecode @ Jan 9, 2007 -> 02:28 PM)
Geez, I'm just happy I can make phone calls on my cell phone.

That's all I want from mine.

I just want to be able to call my kid's school whenever the CTA f***s up my ride home (which is a LOT, since the CTA sucks ass).

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:19 PM)
I was actually making a valid question. Aside from HD failure, is it going to be easy to transfer all of your information when newer models come out? Most phones have a SIM card or something equal. This makes it easy. Does Apple plan to sync devices with the computer so you can store and transfer information? Do I have to continually back up my phone numbers in case of a crash (something you never have to do with other phones unless you flat out break it)?

 

And other questions, I didn't watch the video, but how does e-mail work? Where's the keyboard? Does it have a touchscreen keyboard? Are the keys small? Does it support pop3?

 

Further questions, the Sidekick, thought I hate it, can use flash cards. With the technology and size progressing like mad on these, why did Apple choose to go with a HD instead of something as small, cheap and compatible as a flash card? They can only hold 2 gigs as of now, yes, but the size will only continue to grow and will allow the consumer to make their own choice. While music collections continue to grow, I'd say a good 99% of my friends aren't anywhere CLOSE to even 4 gigs of music. (EDIT HERE) At least 1/4th of the price of the phone is in the HD. If they make it without a HD, the phone costs something a bit more reasonable. And furthermore, if I can continue to upgrade the size of my phone, I don't 1) have to wait until they make their own model with more space (like they always do) and 2) shell out another $500 when it does come out.

 

If you want to know why I hate Apple, bmags, it's because Apple won't let me make my own decisions.

 

Watch the video to answer most of your questions. First of all, it does NOT run on a HD, it runs on the 2-4-8 gig flash drives that are tried and true on the nanos and minis, which doesnt have the failure that you speak of. Transferring numbers from phone to phone is not really offered on many phones unless you have a sim car in the GSM network. My sprint phone had to always be a manual entry. Because this is cingular, it will have the same features as typical GSM carriers. Also most blackberrys are always backed up to hard drives for the same reasons you mentioned, so its typical for a smart phone to be backed up.

 

So alot of your concerns here do not really apply to this phone, I think you were under the impression it was a gen 1 ipod with a phone taped to the back, which is not true. Im not sure what decisions they are making for you that most smart phones dont already do, but I think you are looking too much at the ipod feature and not enough of the whole package. This is a Treo ( much better though) with an ipod nano built in. Of course it is much more intuitive and adds all the features that people have been clamoring for with bb's and treos. Watch the video, it may enlighten you.

 

BTW, there is no way that your friends dont have close to 4 gigs of music. Most people I know have way over 10, most likely 20+. Most college kids these days push 40+

Edited by RockRaines

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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 06:39 PM)
Watch the video to answer most of your questions. First of all, it does NOT run on a HD, it runs on the 2-4-8 gig flash drives that are tried and true on the nanos and minis, which doesnt have the failure that you speak of. Transferring numbers from phone to phone is not really offered on many phones unless you have a sim car in the GSM network. My sprint phone had to always be a manual entry. Because this is cingular, it will have the same features as typical GSM carriers. Also most blackberrys are always backed up to hard drives for the same reasons you mentioned, so its typical for a smart phone to be backed up.

 

So alot of your concerns here do not really apply to this phone, I think you were under the impression it was a gen 1 ipod with a phone taped to the back, which is not true. Im not sure what decisions they are making for you that most smart phones dont already do, but I think you are looking too much at the ipod feature and not enough of the whole package. This is a Treo ( much better though) with an ipod nano built in. Of course it is much more intuitive and adds all the features that people have been clamoring for with bb's and treos. Watch the video, it may enlighten you.

 

BTW, there is no way that your friends dont have close to 4 gigs of music. Most people I know have way over 10, most likely 20+. Most college kids these days push 40+

 

So you know my friends, eh? If I were to buy a "smart"phone, I'd buy a Sidekick 3. They use flash cards. And I'm sorry that your phone couldn't transfer your data. Do some research next time. Thanks for all the sarcasm, by the way. You sound like a Mac user.

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 07:40 PM)
So you know my friends, eh? If I were to buy a "smart"phone, I'd buy a Sidekick 3. They use flash cards. And I'm sorry that your phone couldn't transfer your data. Do some research next time. Thanks for all the sarcasm, by the way. You sound like a Mac user.

 

 

I am a Mac user, and I am also a CCIE. I know the view is that most Mac users are arts/publishing people. Some of us configure routers, switches, and firewalls with them. Some of us actually perform security audits from them. I am a Unix user that happens to like BSD based operating systems.

 

First of all transferring phone information including contacts, numbers and other information has not been an issue even with older phones. Either your vendor will transfer the information, my wife uses sprint and her phone doesn't have a SIM card, and they transfered it for her. Or you can pickup 3rd party software to backup the phone and transfer that information for you. A SIM card is not the only way, in fact we have seen just as many issues with SIM cards where the get damaged, corrupted, and fail.

 

 

Comparing the Hiptop OS that comes on the Sidekick to even a scaled down version of a BSD like OS like OSX or Windows Mobile is not even close. Items running Linux/Windows Mobile/or OSX are smartphones. Items running simple operating system that port a few java apps ontop of them are not. The SD/CF cards that run on these models of phones might have the capacity from a storage standpoint however they lack the throughput to run an OS/interactive video or support context switching within a full fledged interactive OS. You might see a 4.8 mb/s write speed, however without cache or the proper interface these cards will not be able to support a real OS whether that is Windows Mobile or a scaled down version of OSX. Apple used a mobile hard drive in the original ipods due to size limitations at the time, but also due to throughput.

 

I have tested and have used several smart phones including the Windows Mobile. I have decided that I dont need the bells and whistles of the smartphone group. My biggest gripe is battery life. Especially with WiFi connections, I will be interested on how Apple solves this issue. My current blackberry works great for my purposes. The small keyboard is easy to use and most blackberry users get very proficient in typing with it. I figure that the same will hold for the iPhone. The blackberry is not what I would call a smart phone. It has a base OS that runs some Java Apps ontop of it. It gives me my corporate email which works just fine for my needs.

 

Outside of the video/media the iphone has some real promise. The OSX os can run a ton of open source/optimized apps that run on slower hardware. You can really get your bang for the buck.

 

Where a smartphone like the iPhone or the windows mobile phone will make a splash is when some companies write apps for them. When a sales associate can pull up numbers on their phone with a few clicks instead of having boot your laptop up. I am not talking about a silly spreadsheet also. Some interactive app with some data drilldown capabilities.

 

 

The Apple IPOD disk failure issue. I get a kick out of this one.

 

As far as the hard drive issues. If you know how to replace an HD in a computer, you can replace the hard drive in an Ipod. I had one hard drive error in my gen 4 Ipod. It took about 2 minutes to pop out the 1.8 inch hard drive, and about 10 minutes to find a 60 dollar replacement on ebay. After reinstalling the software my ipod was good as new.

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 07:40 PM)
So you know my friends, eh? If I were to buy a "smart"phone, I'd buy a Sidekick 3. They use flash cards. And I'm sorry that your phone couldn't transfer your data. Do some research next time. Thanks for all the sarcasm, by the way. You sound like a Mac user.

I wasnt being sarcastic at all, maybe you chose to read it that way because you were predjudice? I am actually a very avid PC and Blackberry user. Im not sure what the benefit of a flash card is exactly? The phone, being on a gsm network, will transfer all of your personal info via Sim Card. Im not sure what other use you would need for a flash card? Being that it is also an ipod it can take much larger pieces of data than a flash card could handle and transmit it to any pc via USB. I figure that is even more valuable. You might want to look at this phone with a more open outlook, pegging me as sarcastic and a mac user were two very wrong assumptions and im not sure how I could of come off that way.

 

Oh, and the sidekick is not a smartphone, I was talking about the treo's Q's of the world. The sidekick is a very simplistic device designed for not very tech savvy people like Paris Hilton. Real smartphone users would grow bored with that OS as well as the functionality.

 

SSI-there is no harddrive on this phone, there are no moving parts to fail like he was afraid of.

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In fact, I bet you 2 tickets to a game this year that you will like at least one feature of this phone. For me the selective voicemail feature is so revolutionary its ridiculous nobody came up with it before the iphone.

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correction, yeah its flash drive. I heard something about flash memory but it didn't stick with me that it was like the nanos. he didn't even mention it in the keynote which is what confused me.

 

but...anyways, i think capturing 1% will be fairly easy.

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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 09:38 PM)
I wasnt being sarcastic at all, maybe you chose to read it that way because you were predjudice? I am actually a very avid PC and Blackberry user. Im not sure what the benefit of a flash card is exactly? The phone, being on a gsm network, will transfer all of your personal info via Sim Card. Im not sure what other use you would need for a flash card? Being that it is also an ipod it can take much larger pieces of data than a flash card could handle and transmit it to any pc via USB. I figure that is even more valuable. You might want to look at this phone with a more open outlook, pegging me as sarcastic and a mac user were two very wrong assumptions and im not sure how I could of come off that way.

 

Oh, and the sidekick is not a smartphone, I was talking about the treo's Q's of the world. The sidekick is a very simplistic device designed for not very tech savvy people like Paris Hilton. Real smartphone users would grow bored with that OS as well as the functionality.

 

SSI-there is no harddrive on this phone, there are no moving parts to fail like he was afraid of.

 

Then I retract my statement and apologize. The reason I'd prefer a flashcard is because it's removeable for idiots, it's upgradeable and as the size on them keeps growing, 4-8 gigs is not far away. There are plenty of features on this phone that look great, but for the price, I'll stick with my cheaper, "stoopid" phone.

 

 

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 08:50 PM)
I am a Mac user, and I am also a CCIE. I know the view is that most Mac users are arts/publishing people. Some of us configure routers, switches, and firewalls with them. Some of us actually perform security audits from them. I am a Unix user that happens to like BSD based operating systems.

 

First of all transferring phone information including contacts, numbers and other information has not been an issue even with older phones. Either your vendor will transfer the information, my wife uses sprint and her phone doesn't have a SIM card, and they transfered it for her. Or you can pickup 3rd party software to backup the phone and transfer that information for you. A SIM card is not the only way, in fact we have seen just as many issues with SIM cards where the get damaged, corrupted, and fail.

 

 

Comparing the Hiptop OS that comes on the Sidekick to even a scaled down version of a BSD like OS like OSX or Windows Mobile is not even close. Items running Linux/Windows Mobile/or OSX are smartphones. Items running simple operating system that port a few java apps ontop of them are not. The SD/CF cards that run on these models of phones might have the capacity from a storage standpoint however they lack the throughput to run an OS/interactive video or support context switching within a full fledged interactive OS. You might see a 4.8 mb/s write speed, however without cache or the proper interface these cards will not be able to support a real OS whether that is Windows Mobile or a scaled down version of OSX. Apple used a mobile hard drive in the original ipods due to size limitations at the time, but also due to throughput.

 

I have tested and have used several smart phones including the Windows Mobile. I have decided that I dont need the bells and whistles of the smartphone group. My biggest gripe is battery life. Especially with WiFi connections, I will be interested on how Apple solves this issue. My current blackberry works great for my purposes. The small keyboard is easy to use and most blackberry users get very proficient in typing with it. I figure that the same will hold for the iPhone. The blackberry is not what I would call a smart phone. It has a base OS that runs some Java Apps ontop of it. It gives me my corporate email which works just fine for my needs.

 

Outside of the video/media the iphone has some real promise. The OSX os can run a ton of open source/optimized apps that run on slower hardware. You can really get your bang for the buck.

 

Where a smartphone like the iPhone or the windows mobile phone will make a splash is when some companies write apps for them. When a sales associate can pull up numbers on their phone with a few clicks instead of having boot your laptop up. I am not talking about a silly spreadsheet also. Some interactive app with some data drilldown capabilities.

 

 

The Apple IPOD disk failure issue. I get a kick out of this one.

 

As far as the hard drive issues. If you know how to replace an HD in a computer, you can replace the hard drive in an Ipod. I had one hard drive error in my gen 4 Ipod. It took about 2 minutes to pop out the 1.8 inch hard drive, and about 10 minutes to find a 60 dollar replacement on ebay. After reinstalling the software my ipod was good as new.

 

You must be skilled with a knife, as the cases aren't meant to be popped open.

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Also FYI, it was Cisco not Siemans that had the TM on Iphone before Apple, and now they are suing...

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 03:11 AM)
Then I retract my statement and apologize. The reason I'd prefer a flashcard is because it's removeable for idiots, it's upgradeable and as the size on them keeps growing, 4-8 gigs is not far away. There are plenty of features on this phone that look great, but for the price, I'll stick with my cheaper, "stoopid" phone.

You must be skilled with a knife, as the cases aren't meant to be popped open.

What exactly needs to be moved etc from one device to the other that a flash card is necessary? Its actually a much less of a technology than what we have here.

 

ALso there is no hard drive once again, so he wont be cracking open any cases. In fact IPODS most likely will never have a moving hard drive again soon.

 

DId you watch the video yet?

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 03:11 AM)
You must be skilled with a knife, as the cases aren't meant to be popped open.

 

The phone doesnt need this as it is flash based. However one of my geek reverse engineering sites will disassemble this and will have detailed intructions on how to dissemble the new iPhone after they become available.

 

However on the older IPOD this is not that difficult. You dont need to be skilled with a knife. All it takes is a precision screwdriver and to fit in an turn just a bit, then move around the case. It will pop open in a matter of seconds. The case was in 2 pieces before. So it can be opened. It has a backplate, and a front plate. The front plate has the controller board on it where the drive is mounted with a standard IDE connector, and the back plate has a ribbon cable that connects the IPOD interface to the controller board. You just have to be careful when you swing it open as the ribbon cable is delicate.

Edited by southsideirish71

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When you are taking about a gen 1 anything, be it apple, IBM, dell, even software there are always issues and I believe the one he talks about what a significant problem with some of the gen 1 ipods, and has since been fixed and is now considered a very old and forgotten problem for the most part. Apple's new design with the static flash drive is much more advanced and should replace any moving and failing parts.

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The thing looks neat, but the way I see it. Phones are to be used as phones. I'll give it text messaging - but that's it!

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QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 10:55 AM)
The thing looks neat, but the way I see it. Phones are to be used as phones. I'll give it text messaging - but that's it!

did you see the selective voicemail feature?

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QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 10:55 AM)
The thing looks neat, but the way I see it. Phones are to be used as phones. I'll give it text messaging - but that's it!

 

Seeing as I hate cellphones, because people can call you on them... I don't even like that functionality :D

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