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Butter Parque

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Rob Dibble told a great story once about pitching in Candlestick during a day game with the wind blowing in hard from CF. His fastball was hitting 100+ but he couldn't get a curve over to save his life. Kevin Mitchell knew it and took him yard to straightaway center.

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a great tug of war of people saying being proven in the bullpen means nothing and then people the very next post saying our bullpen is unproven. Well last year, our unproven guys were the best and our proven guys were awful save jenks. This year thornton could very well suck the pooch.

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QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 01:56 PM)
I meant the most historic bullpen by being one of the hardest throwing ever, not talent or production wise.

Where's the change of pace? Eventually hitters catch up to high heat if that's all they keep seeing.

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QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:11 PM)
Where's the change of pace? Eventually hitters catch up to high heat if that's all they keep seeing.

Well, the pitchers come from very distinctly different styles and arm angles. Thorton appears to come from way off the mound and his fatball has alot of side to side movement. Mac is effectively wild with an almost unpredictable moving fastball and offspeed stuff. Sisco is somewhat out of the thorton mold and is coming from what seems like a little league distance mound with his height. Jenks has one of the straighter fastballs, but has probably the nasiest breaking stuff and a very quick throwing motion.

 

I havent seen enough of the other two to judge quite yet, but I think that even though they all throw gas, they all have very different styles. Its like having Roger Clemens pitch to you, then Randy Johnson, even though they may have both throw around the same speed, they are coming at you very differently.

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QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:11 PM)
Where's the change of pace? Eventually hitters catch up to high heat if that's all they keep seeing.

 

That's why God invented the curveball

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QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:17 PM)
That's why God invented the curveball

I was referring to a bullpen full of fastball-happy pitchers.

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QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:25 PM)
I was referring to a bullpen full of fastball-happy pitchers.

 

And I was referring to their secondary pitches

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QUOTE(PAUL KONERKO 14 @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 06:49 PM)
If we don't have the best pen in the majors, how can we have the best all-time?

Trade for Mariano Rivera.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
MLB does not but independent baseball statistical organizations do like baseballinfosolutions.com and Stats Inc.

Yep.

I remember John Dewan being on Murphy's show over the summer talking about where Jenks, Thornton and MacDougal rank amongst hardest throwers, and they were near the overall leaders.

 

Aardsma was the hardest thrower for the Cubs and was in the top 20 overall for highest average speed of a fastball IIRC.

 

Are pitchers who throw harder better?

 

August 30, 2006

 

A couple of weeks ago we looked at the fact that about half the pitchers who pitched in Major League Baseball throw over 90 miles per hour, but surprisingly, a low percentage of hard throwers are left-handed. This week's question: Does it matter? If you throw hard, does it mean you are better?

 

Let's look at the average fastball for each pitcher once again. As the miles per hour of the average fastball goes up, does ERA go up, down, or stay the same? Here's the data over the last two years:

 

Average Fastball (MPH) Innings ERA

<90 32,998 4.58

90-91 19,200 4.47

92-93 18,795 4.08

94-95 4,933 3.92

>95 1,226 3.55

 

It's a clear-cut pattern. We lumped all pitchers below 90 into one group because there wasn't a pattern in that group, but beginning with pitchers with a 90 mile-per-hour fastball, there is steady improvement in ERA as you go up in velocity.

 

One caller into my Stat of the Week radio segment in Chicago suggested that relievers might be biasing the analysis. Most of the hardest throwing pitchers are relievers, and it's easier for a reliever to have a lower ERA because, quite often, they don't have to pitch a full inning. That's a good point, but we took a look and found the same pattern for starters and relievers: decreasing ERA as velocity increases.

 

Who are the hardest throwers? They are all relievers except Daniel Cabrera. Here's the top ten list over the last two years:

 

Name Team Throws Avg Fastball (MPH)

Joel Zumaya Tigers R 98.56

Billy Wagner Mets L 96.47

Bobby Jenks White Sox R 96.29

Kyle Farnsworth Yankees R 96.20

Ambiorix Burgos Royals R 96.04

Brad Lidge Astros R 95.78

Francisco Cordero Brewers R 95.75

Daniel Cabrera Orioles R 95.74

Derrick Turnbow Brewers R 95.68

Mark Lowe Mariners R 95.61

 

Zumaya is incredible: over two miles per hour faster than the next fastest pitcher.

That is based on a two year sample, but on Murph's segment I think he just used 2006 statistics.

 

Does velocity count in the playoffs?

 

October 4, 2006

 

Does velocity count in the playoffs?

 

John Dewan's Stat of the Week

 

October 4, 2006

 

In a recent Stat of the Week, we compared fastball velocity and ERA and found there was a strong correlation. Pitchers who throw harder (based on their average fastball) perform better. Is this also true during the playoffs?

 

Here's a chart comparing the regular season and playoffs:

 

Fastball Velocity and ERA

MPH ERA

(Regular Season) ERA

(Playoffs)

Less Than 90 4.58 4.71

90 to 93 4.29 4.18

94 or more 3.84 3.42

 

We see the same pattern in the playoffs as the regular season. ERA improves as velocity goes up. But more importantly, for the playoffs we see an even stronger effect. ERA improves even more dramatically in the playoffs for those pitchers who throw harder.

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f we don't have the best pen in the majors, how can we have the best all-time?

 

What? If you're referring to the thread topic, I never said best of all time, all I said was historic in the sense of hardest throwing ever. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not Best, Just Hardest Throwing!!!!!

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Just for discussion. In a tight game in the 6th or 7th who do you bring in to face Morneau and Mauer or Hafner and Martinez? You need MacDougal, Thornton and Jenks to finish out the game, who do you use to get to them?

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QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What? If you're referring to the thread topic, I never said best of all time, all I said was historic in the sense of hardest throwing ever. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not Best, Just Hardest Throwing!!!!!

My bad, my bad :P

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If we end up with Haeger in the pen, along with 5 flamethrowers, that itself could be a real asset. I mean, that could really mess up hitters to see a starter throwing 87-92, then Haeger at 65, then Jenks at 99. With all the hard throwers, maybe that is a good argument to put Haeger in the 6th slot for that very reason.

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QUOTE(TLAK @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 07:42 AM)
Just for discussion. In a tight game in the 6th or 7th who do you bring in to face Morneau and Mauer or Hafner and Martinez? You need MacDougal, Thornton and Jenks to finish out the game, who do you use to get to them?

Sisco.

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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 07:37 AM)
Sisco.

Whoever earns the spot.

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QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 09:25 AM)
I'd use Sisco, it would be him or Boone Logan and we all know how that would turn out.

Yup. Boone would come in and dominate.

 

Seriously people, am I the only one here who's ever seen a player, especially a pitcher, and especially a relief pitcher with tricky stuff, come up, be a bit scared to throw strikes at first and get in trouble, but then learn the ropes better and suddenly become a much tougher opponent?

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 11:27 AM)
Yup. Boone would come in and dominate.

 

Seriously people, am I the only one here who's ever seen a player, especially a pitcher, and especially a relief pitcher with tricky stuff, come up, be a bit scared to throw strikes at first and get in trouble, but then learn the ropes better and suddenly become a much tougher opponent?

I have zero confidence in Boone, I dont like his mechanics for some reason. I think Sisco has shown, espcially in 2005 that he can be a force out of the pen.

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QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 12:07 AM)
What? If you're referring to the thread topic, I never said best of all time, all I said was historic in the sense of hardest throwing ever. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not best, just hardest throwing. Not Best, Just Hardest Throwing!!!!!

 

but how can we have the best of all time if we dont even have the best in the league?¿?¿

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 11, 2007 -> 11:27 AM)
Yup. Boone would come in and dominate.

 

Seriously people, am I the only one here who's ever seen a player, especially a pitcher, and especially a relief pitcher with tricky stuff, come up, be a bit scared to throw strikes at first and get in trouble, but then learn the ropes better and suddenly become a much tougher opponent?

 

He has sucked once, therefore he will always suck.

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