Why Crucify the whole team already???

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Mar 20, 2007 -> 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know you weren't quoting me, but you didn't see any improvement that at least El-Duque was a veteran and can give you innings and keep you in the game and whose era during 98-04 was 3.13, 4.12, 4.51, 4.85, 3.64, and 3.30 respectively? The only question with him was injuries and even then B-Mac was MLB ready anyway to step in from LR and handle the 5th spot. The Whitesox organization wouldn't be wearing rings right now if El-Duque didn't help contribute. Who the hell knew that Hermy was going to get injured. Who knows who'll get injured this year. Your right about the "overwhelmed" but ALOT of posters saw that improvement from that dreaded 5th spot as well.

 

 

 

Now that's BS.

 

 

 

Where does it say that I didn't see it? A lot of posters just saw his age and injury history and couldn't care less about how it was better than our 5th spot of a year before. The loss of Lee and Ordonez for an injury plagued Dye and some one year wonder Pods was not well received either. We were just going on the cheap. You don't recall this? Oh yeah, there was a ton of negativity prior to the 2005 season. A TON!

 

 

 

And not one quote in that statement or my previous statement was BS. Total truth.

[fathom]

From what I can recall, most people were thrilled we got El Duque, as we thought that would be the end to the 5th start massacre from the year before.

[hitlesswonder]

Erstad I don't understand eigher. He will be a valuable option to this team this season. Whoever is saying that doesn't know jack cause his defense in LF, and I'll repeat that LF and his bat will definitely help us this season (doesn't hurt he's a lefty also)

 

What evidence is there that Erstad's bat will help the Sox this season. .691, .702, .642,.746,.696,.605 those are Erstad's OPSs from 2001 through 2006. His avg OBP for those years was around .320. Having him as a backup CF would be OK. Giving him 500 at-bats seems crazy. Now, Erstad may have a great year and make this post look foolish. I just don't think it's likely.

 

As for "negative posts", I think most people here simply want the Sox to win and aren't happy when the Sox don't seem to give themselves the best opportunity to do so. And there's a big difference between a post that argues with basis that Pods isn't a good LF, and one the simply says someone "sucks". I hope the Sox have a great, great season. That hope is not incompatible with thinking the Sox should try to improve on an outfiled with 2 .700 OPS guys in it. I just don't see how the Sox can invest $100M in a year and then not take the extra step to shore up the outfield....

 

You want some optimism? I think it's great that Adam Russell has thrown well. A big guy who apparently legitimately hits 94 MPH with regularity, can throw from different arm angles with movement...that's good stuff. It sounds like he actually has top of the rotation stuff (with the always required caveat that he needs to have better control...). Odds are against any pitching prospect, but I'm glad there's finally a power pitcher among the Sox top starting prospects.

[southsideirish71]

Where does it say that I didn't see it? A lot of posters just saw his age and injury history and couldn't care less about how it was better than our 5th spot of a year before. The loss of Lee and Ordonez for an injury plagued Dye and some one year wonder Pods was not well received either. We were just going on the cheap. You don't recall this? Oh yeah, there was a ton of negativity prior to the 2005 season. A TON!

 

 

 

And not one quote in that statement or my previous statement was BS. Total truth.

 

I welcomed the Pods for Carlos trade, because I hated our lift and pull approach. I was sickened watching Carlos Lee hit what he thought was home runs shots, only to get thrown out at 2nd trying to put on the fake hussle. Between him and Valentin who I didnt like the most was hard to figure out. Carlos was fine, until he and Walk worked on turning him from the guy with the long hitting streak ripping doubles all over the park driving in runs, to a monolithic home run hitter who had some sexy numbers but had a propensitity to fall over trying to hit the dramatic homer, when we had a man on 3rd and less than two outs.

 

Now of course hindsight is 20/20. I was hoping that we would balance our all or nothing hitters with some smart line drive types that would get on base, and would hit to all fields. I was a huge proponent of AJ, whom I thought would be a doubles machine hitting to the left side a lot. I never thought how much the offense would sicken me the entire 2005 season sans the playoffs. Before Pods was traded, we were all talking about Frank Catalanato as a possibility for left because of his line drive abilities. The big debate before that season was if we were going to sign Dye or Hidalgo. It was a wash at the time on which would be better, now of course it seems that we won that in a landslide.

[SoxAce]

You don't recall this? Oh yeah, there was a ton of negativity prior to the 2005 season. A TON!

 

I was there too bro, and my memory may not be as good as it used to be considering my old man age I'm sportin now, but I can't recall a TON of negativity. Hell alot of posters liked El-duque mostly because of his playoff experience that would've helped us. There was doubt and negativity of course, but I don't think there was a ton. It was more optimism. If I'm wrong though, it's all good as well. We are all human and maybe the weed smokin and drinking has effected my baseball knowledge.

[southsideirish71]

I was there too bro, and my memory may not be as good as it used to be considering my old man age I'm sportin now, but I can't recall a TON of negativity. Hell alot of posters liked El-duque mostly because of his playoff experience that would've helped us. There was doubt and negativity of course, but I don't think there was a ton. It was more optimism. If I'm wrong though, it's all good as well. We are all human and maybe the weed smokin and drinking has effected my baseball knowledge.

 

Everyone liked El Duque and had positive thoughts on that one because he wasnt the

 

Felix Diaz/Jason Grilli/Danny Wright/Arnie Munoz pinwell of hell known as the teeball stand.

 

[Kalapse]

I welcomed the Pods for Carlos trade, because I hated our lift and pull approach. I was sickened watching Carlos Lee hit what he thought was home runs shots, only to get thrown out at 2nd trying to put on the fake hussle. Between him and Valentin who I didnt like the most was hard to figure out. Carlos was fine, until he and Walk worked on turning him from the guy with the long hitting streak ripping doubles all over the park driving in runs, to a monolithic home run hitter who had some sexy numbers but had a propensitity to fall over trying to hit the dramatic homer, when we had a man on 3rd and less than two outs.

 

Now of course hindsight is 20/20. I was hoping that we would balance our all or nothing hitters with some smart line drive types that would get on base, and would hit to all fields. I was a huge proponent of AJ, whom I thought would be a doubles machine hitting to the left side a lot. I never thought how much the offense would sicken me the entire 2005 season sans the playoffs. Before Pods was traded, we were all talking about Frank Catalanato as a possibility for left because of his line drive abilities. The big debate before that season was if we were going to sign Dye or Hidalgo. It was a wash at the time on which would be better, now of course it seems that we won that in a landslide.

Man I loved that AJ move, I remember getting into my car on the way to work (probably 3:40pm or so) and hearing George Offman report that AJ had been released by the Giants. I jumped up out of my old Imperial and yelling to my brother on the other side of the front lawn "WILLIAMS BETTER f***ING BRING HIM IN!". Williams bringing AJ in for an interview to see if he was "White Sox material" was just too perfect, of course AJ aced that exam. That was the one move before '05 (Dye right behind that) which I absolutely LOVED at the time and I first started getting optimistic about the 2005 season after that.

[Flash Tizzle]

Where does it say that I didn't see it? A lot of posters just saw his age and injury history and couldn't care less about how it was better than our 5th spot of a year before. The loss of Lee and Ordonez for an injury plagued Dye and some one year wonder Pods was not well received either. We were just going on the cheap. You don't recall this? Oh yeah, there was a ton of negativity prior to the 2005 season. A TON!

Here's what I could find:

 

-Sox sign Dye

 

-Trading Lee for Podsednik/Vizcaino wasn't well received initially, but it wasn't until several deals later that it became clear the money extracted from Carlos Lee was distributed to Iguchi, Hernandez, Pierzynski. Since I can't find a thread specifically mentioning it, you can believe it or not.

 

-Someone needs to open the search engine on Soxtalk to locate the thread discussing Orlando Hernandez' signing. I remember creating the thread, but I'm unable to find it using Google.

 

- 2005 predictions. I'd hardly call this a "ton of negativity."

[SoxAce]

What evidence is there that Erstad's bat will help the Sox this season. .691, .702, .642,.746,.696,.605 those are Erstad's OPSs from 2001 through 2006. His avg OBP for those years was around .320. Giving him 500 at-bats seems crazy.

 

Well for one, damn near all of those OPS numbers you posted are better than what Pods has done so you don't think that is will help us this season? Talk about him getting 500 abs is crazy then we must be retarded then giving Pods 500+.

 

Having him as a backup CF would be OK.

 

No it wouldn't, but if it's nessessary (for some odd reason) fine.

 

Now, Erstad may have a great year and make this post look foolish. I just don't think it's likely.

 

I don't think so eigher, but a decent year from him is still 2 times better than what we'd be getting from Pods besides the SB. I'm not saying he's the best option by any means but if you had to choose between the two and who would benifit our club the most eigher by defense, hitting history against pitchers, hitting wise, whatever you can think of I'd say Erstad is better in most categories.

[southsideirish71]

Man I loved that AJ move, I remember getting into my car on the way to work (probably 3:40pm or so) and hearing George Offman report that AJ had been released by the Giants. I jumped up out of my old Imperial and yelling to my brother on the other side of the front lawn "WILLIAMS BETTER f***ING BRING HIM IN!". Williams bringing AJ in for an interview to see if he was "White Sox material" was just too perfect, of course AJ aced that exam. That was the one move before '05 (Dye right behind that) which I absolutely LOVED at the time and I first started getting optimistic about the 2005 season after that.

 

I still remember the debates with a few posters on here that were worried about chemistry. I wanted AJ because he typifies the type of hitter that I think complements our thumpers well. A line drive guy who can hit gap to gap. To me you need 4 types of hitters to balance a line up. One high OBP guy who can get on base. A guy who has absolute control of the bat, cant hit and run, hit to the right side, make contact. Your protypical thumpers who lift and pull. Then your gap to gap guys who keep the line moving after the thumpers get through.

 

Between that move, and I remember being at Soxfest when they were asking Kenny about Iguchi before he was signed and he acted like he never heard of him. It scared the crap out of me to think that Willie Harris was going to be our starting 2nd baseman.

[SoxAce]

Everyone liked El Duque and had positive thoughts on that one because he wasnt the

 

Felix Diaz/Jason Grilli/Danny Wright/Arnie Munoz pinwell of hell known as the teeball stand.

 

 

That reminds me how much I Nuke when he was around.

[Kalapse]

Here's what I could find:

 

-Sox sign Dye

 

-Trading Lee for Podsednik/Vizcaino wasn't well received initially, but it wasn't until several deals later that it became clear the money extracted from Carlos Lee was distributed to Iguchi, Hernandez, Pierzynski. Since I can't find a thread specifically mentioning it, you can believe it or not.

 

-Someone needs to open the search engine on Soxtalk to locate the thread discussing Orlando Hernandez' signing. I remember creating the thread, but I'm unable to find it using Google.

 

- 2005 predictions. I'd hardly call this a "ton of negativity."

There's some good El Duque banter in here:

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&saf...amp;btnG=Search

[Flash Tizzle]

I still remember the debates with a few posters on here that were worried about chemistry. I wanted AJ because he typifies the type of hitter that I think complements our thumpers well. A line drive guy who can hit gap to gap. To me you need 4 types of hitters to balance a line up. One high OBP guy who can get on base. A guy who has absolute control of the bat, cant hit and run, hit to the right side, make contact. Your protypical thumpers who lift and pull. Then your gap to gap guys who keep the line moving after the thumpers get through.

 

Between that move, and I remember being at Soxfest when they were asking Kenny about Iguchi before he was signed and he acted like he never heard of him. It scared the crap out of me to think that Willie Harris was going to be our starting 2nd baseman.

Sox sign AJ

 

Does this mean the whiners and complainers on this board are going to stop whining and complaining?

 

Probably not.

 

s***, I've already drastically limited my whining following Jermaine Dye's signing.

 

Even Cubkilla himself must applaud Williams' commitment to our club.

 

DAMN NEGATIVITY!

[Kalapse]

Well for one, damn near all of those OPS numbers you posted are better than what Pods has done so you don't think that is will help us this season? Talk about him getting 500 abs is crazy then we must be retarded then giving Pods 500+.

No it wouldn't, but if it's nessessary (for some odd reason) fine.

I don't think so eigher, but a decent year from him is still 2 times better than what we'd be getting from Pods besides the SB. I'm not saying he's the best option by any means but if you had to choose between the two and who would benifit our club the most eigher by defense, hitting history against pitchers, hitting wise, whatever you can think of I'd say Erstad is better in most categories.

What the f*** is up with your spelling of the word "either"? You've spelled it "eigher like 15 times tonight. You're starting to worry me.

[southsideirish71]

Sox sign AJ

s***, I've already drastically limited my whining following Jermaine Dye's signing.

 

Even Cubkilla himself must applaud Williams' commitment to our club.

 

DAMN NEGATIVITY!

 

 

I have a good memory.

 

 

Heard it myself. GREAT FREAKIN NEWS!!!!!!

 

Get Iguchi and call it a very successful offseason.

[hitlesswonder]

Well for one, damn near all of those OPS numbers you posted are better than what Pods has done so you don't think that is will help us this season? Talk about him getting 500 abs is crazy then we must be retarded then giving Pods 500+.

 

I just think playing Erstad outside of CF loses most of his value (it looks like he still has a good glove). LF is no place for a .700 OPS. I don't think Erstad should hit 1 or 2 since his OBP is usually low. So if the Sox are going to drop Pods and play someone else in LF, why not get a real hitter? Or Josh Fields?

 

I agree, I'm not enthusiastic about Pods. But in 2 of the last 4 years he did post a higher OBP than anything Erstad has done in a while.

[Kalapse]

Sox sign AJ

s***, I've already drastically limited my whining following Jermaine Dye's signing.

 

Even Cubkilla himself must applaud Williams' commitment to our club.

 

DAMN NEGATIVITY!

You want negativity, I'll give you negativity:

 

Sox Sign Iguchi

 

Yeesh, talk about a hate fest.

[SoxAce]

What the f*** is up with your spelling of the word "either"? You've spelled it "eigher like 15 times tonight. You're starting to worry me.

 

I'm a rebel b**** you got a problem with that? I'm tryin to overtake Gage in the most spelled words incorrectly but for really one word. Not going to school also helps and of course what I said earlier.

 

and maybe the weed smokin and drinking has effected my baseball knowledge.

 

Probably has effected my spelling and motor skills mr. griffin.

[fathom]

Man I loved that AJ move, I remember getting into my car on the way to work (probably 3:40pm or so) and hearing George Offman report that AJ had been released by the Giants. I jumped up out of my old Imperial and yelling to my brother on the other side of the front lawn "WILLIAMS BETTER f***ING BRING HIM IN!". Williams bringing AJ in for an interview to see if he was "White Sox material" was just too perfect, of course AJ aced that exam. That was the one move before '05 (Dye right behind that) which I absolutely LOVED at the time and I first started getting optimistic about the 2005 season after that.

 

I still remember the disappointment on the night when tenders had to be given towards your arbitration players, and we signed Ben Davis for a million dollars right around midnight. At that time, we all thought that AJP would be going elsewhere.

[Kalapse]

I still remember the disappointment on the night when tenders had to be given towards your arbitration players, and we signed Ben Davis for a million dollars right around midnight. At that time, we all thought that AJP would be going elsewhere.

I remember sitting at my laptop staring at Rotoworld waiting for the Sox' tenders to come across. I was heartbroken when I saw Ben Davis' name. What a s***ty night that was.

[bmags]

i will add my name to remembering the offseason before 05 to be very positive around spring training. heck, if i remember correctly, as soxfest wasn't that the year where kenny was "blown away" at how positive the response was?

 

But reading that i'm having trouble remembering one thing, it keeps mentioning the "walker signing", was that the terrible relief pitcher we had in 04? i'm not remembering following that that offseason.

[Capn12]

I'm not sure there are many of us that are writing off '07 already. There are some of us, I think my co-conspirators include Kalapse and fathom, have absolutely no use for Pods. Thats just the simple truth. I've been the biggest Pods basher since hes been here. I think he is a no bunting, getting on base hack with average speed that relies on great reads to steal bases. I think he can't play a lick of defense, can't throw, and only makes most running catches in LF because he plays EVERY SINGLE HITTER on the warning track.

 

As for Erstad, well I don't mind him being here one bit, hell I'm pretty happy with the signing. BUT, he has no business taking 500 ABs in CF away from a true CFer with better range and a helluva lot more fluid approach to fielding. Erstad and Pods should be used to sort out LF, not to take away playing time from the kid that deserves to play CF.

 

Put Erstad in there to spell BA, share some ABs with Prancer, and I'm happy with our lineup. We have IMO a helluva bench. A quality backup catcher, the best superutility guy in Mack, Pablo who will do anything that is asked of him, Cintron is a player off the bench. I LOVE our bench, I just think that Erstad or Pods should be there with those guys.

 

Our starting rotation...not so sure about it right now. If Buehrle bounces back with 15 wins, I'll consider it a successful year for him. Javy, I have a strange feeling will really have a nice year. Contreras, all the guy does is go out there, eat innings, and most of the time, give us a chance to win. Garland has come into his own, despite a pretty s***ty WHIP at times. Danks/Floyd....well, I'll be happy with whoever wins the job if they put us in a position to win, thats about all I can hope for.

 

The pen, if we go with what IMO is the best combination:Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Masset, Logan, Haegar. I think that pen has some very hight potential(yes, the most dangerous word in sports).

 

 

I don't see any crucification here for this team, just genuine concern over our managers hypocritical talk and the backend of the rotation, plus the potential batting order vs. lefties.

[SoxAce]

and we signed Ben Davis for a million dollars right around midnight. At that time, we all thought that AJP would be going elsewhere.

 

I remember sitting at my laptop staring at Rotoworld waiting for the Sox' tenders to come across. I was heartbroken when I saw Ben Davis' name. What a s***ty night that was.

 

Don't f*** with the Ben Davis Fan Club b****es!

[NorthSideSox72]

I personally love the back and forth on here, positive and negative, when there are logical reasons and facts associated with it (as many others have said). But I do also agree, BearSox, that how this season goes is still very much up in the air - the CF job and Erstad's role, the final couple bullpen positions, the 5th starter, and how the starting pitchers will fare. That's why I want to wait until 4/1 to make any predictions about the season.

 

My wish list:

--Anderson starting in CF

--Erstad playing 3 to 5 days a week, backing up at CF, LF, RF and 1B

--Gooch in the 2-hole against ALL pitchers

--Pods healthy and not trying to steal too often

--Aardvark sent to AAA, Haeger in 6th pen spot

--Floyd as 5th starter, giving Danks at least a few months at AAA

--Move Rogo/Tracey/Phillips for any kind of young pitching or middle infield talent they can fetch

 

Give me all of that, and I feel pretty darn good about this season. The only big questions at that point would be the starting pitchers' fortunes, and the team's health.

[Controlled Chaos]

 

I look forward to asking for Eduardo Perez every game we face a lefty.

I look forward to saying "Brian woulda had that" on 65% of the balls that land in the gaps and in front of the centerfielder.