GAME THREAD: LAAAAAAAAAAA vs Sox, 3:05pm

[bkmoney]

this is UGLY

 

we are last in all of mlb in spring training. i know it 'doesnt mean anything' but come on

 

bad error by JD on should have been easy catch. that was pods style

[The Critic]

Hawk is closing in on Dusty Baker territory with the excuses he's making for the team.

[striker]

I think I'm going to sit this season out. Our starters and relievers suck. Our "flamethrowing" bullpen tops out at 92mph, from what I've seen.

[NorthSideSox72]

Dye's error makes it 12-2 Angels, still only 1 out in the 6th.

 

What is with this team? They did this last year too, but earlier in ST, then started to get it together at the end I think.

[whitesoxfan101]

To say we got equal value is disproved by how much we got for McCarthy. It was a bad trade unless Gio becomes a superstar, but all we lost was 1 year of a washed up pitcher (and please don't bring up 17 wins, that pharce isn't holding water with me, look at his true numbers last year), however that washed up pitcher had more value than what we got. It happens, every GM makes a bad trade, and I think the B-Mac trade will make up for it.

[Flash Tizzle]

I think I'm going to sit this season out. Our starters and relievers suck. Our "flamethrowing" bullpen tops out at 92mph, from what I've seen.

I noticed this as well.

 

Why exactly are MacDougal and Sisco failing to top 92 mph with under a week left until the season begins?

 

If their not going to be ready, perhaps in future season our pitchers -- from Garland to Jenks -- should begin earlier. We absolutely cannot start slow out of the gate.

[whitesoxfan101]

Why exactly are MacDougal and Sisco failing to top 92 mph with under a week left until the season begins?

 

Probably because relying on what a spring traning radar gun in the middle of the desert tells you. Jenks still isn't right, but really the gun has been wrong on comcast all camp. It had Prior throwing 93 and 94 in a game he only hit 89 tops. Don't trust it.

[mr_genius]

Explain this to me -- is the difference between Freddy Garcia and Jason Jennings really enough to justify the large gap between the two deals? No. Colorado received exactly what we should have -- a generous return package. That was because the nature of the market overvalued mediocre pitchers. Williams didn't take advantage of it.

 

Yes, there is that much of a difference.

 

Also, you know what, Colorado made a great trade. KW wanted to get rid of Garcia (good move) and this is the most he could get. You really think he got better offers and turned them down ? That an old pitcher that has lost atleast 8 mph off his fastball that is at the end of his contract, and most likely career, is going to fetch a ton of top prospects from a team?

 

Garcia is gone, get over it. Any time you trade for prospects there is a chance they won't work out. There is also a chance they will.

Edited March 27, 2007 by mr_genius

[Flash Tizzle]

Hawk is closing in on Dusty Baker territory with the excuses he's making for the team.

What's really irritating is I recall Hawk mentioning at the beginning of Spring Training, when we started off just as poorly as previous years, that its only near the end of Spring Training when teams put themselves together.

 

Now he's changing his mind? Cmon. This is when it becomes unbearable to watch the game. Don't make excuses when things go bad. Just say it -- we're not ready. We look BAD.

[fathom]

Flash, you are under the false impression that Garcia had high trade value.

 

the constant b****ing over here is getting old fast.

 

If he didn't have value, then that poll that said he was one of the top 5 pitchers available on the market this offseason was drastically wrong.

 

Yes, there is that much of a difference.

 

Also, you know what, Colorado made a great trade. KW wanted to get rid of Garcia (good move) and this is the most he could get. You really think he got better offers and turned them down ? That an old pitcher that has lost atleast 8 mph off his fastball that is at the end of his contract, and most likely career, is going to fetch a ton of top prospects from a team.

 

Garcia is gone, get over it. Any time you trade for prospects there is a chance they won't work out. There is also a chance they will.

 

Yes, I think there may have been other offers with better talent. However, KW thought that he could make Floyd into a top prospect again with a little help from Cooper. Also, with Buehrle losing his velocity and Cotts leaving the team, we needed to acquire another lefty who throws 90 mph.

[mr_genius]

If he didn't have value, then that poll that said he was one of the top 5 pitchers available on the market this offseason was drastically wrong.

 

what poll?

 

Yes, I think there may have been other offers with better talent. However, KW thought that he could make Floyd into a top prospect again with a little help from Cooper. Also, with Buehrle losing his velocity and Cotts leaving the team, we needed to acquire another lefty who throws 90 mph.

 

Ok, KW turned down better offers so he could get a lefty that can throw 90 mph, but on accident he signed a righty that everyone knows would suck. happy? FIRE KW!!

[fathom]

what poll?

Ok, KW turned down better offers so he could get a lefty that can throw 90 mph, but on accident he signed a righty that everyone knows would suck. happy? FIRE KW!!

 

Can someone please find the poll that had Garcia rated so highly among executives about potential pitchers on the market? That same poll was quoted the entire offseason prior to the trade when people thought we'd get Brandon Wood and Howie Kendrick for Garcia, etc. And yes, KW might have turned down better offers because he was extremely high on Gio and Floyd.

[RockRaines]

Flash, you are under the false impression that Garcia had high trade value.

 

the constant b****ing over here is getting old fast.

He's also under the impression that we will only have 82 wins. Even big fans of the Royals think that this is their year. Its almost time to pick another team to follow. Once you hate the manager, the GM, most of the players and their tendencies, and the minor league system, you have just made yourself lose the title of a fan, theres nothing left for you to be a "fan" of.

[fathom]

He's also under the impression that we will only have 82 wins. Even big fans of the Royals think that this is their year. Its almost time to pick another team to follow. Once you hate the manager, the GM, most of the players and their tendencies, and the minor league system, you have just made yourself lose the title of a fan, theres nothing left for you to be a "fan" of.

 

I've seen some of the most optimistic fans on this site pick this team to have 84 or 85 wins this year.

[shawnhillegas]

If he didn't have value, then that poll that said he was one of the top 5 pitchers available on the market this offseason was drastically wrong.

Yes, I think there may have been other offers with better talent. However, KW thought that he could make Floyd into a top prospect again with a little help from Cooper. Also, with Buehrle losing his velocity and Cotts leaving the team, we needed to acquire another lefty who throws 90 mph.

 

 

I mean, come on. We all know that boards are places for speculation and rumors, but this debate is going nowhere for either side. I think there might have may have could have might be is all we can say about the trade. Garcia isnt going to have a good year, but neither will Floyd. End of story.

 

I've seen some of the most optimistic fans on this site pick this team to have 84 or 85 wins this year.

 

 

Right now, Im not much over 85 and I think Im still a fan.

[RockRaines]

I've seen some of the most optimistic fans on this site pick this team to have 84 or 85 wins this year.

Not with the same hate for this organization that is being shown on this board day to day. When you do not like anything about the team anymore, you arent a fan, thats how it is.

[jphat007]

I've seen some of the most optimistic fans on this site pick this team to have 84 or 85 wins this year.

 

Nope. I picked 71, and possibly 72. If we're lucky.

[Dick Allen]

I hope all the guys we have that supposedly throw 95-98 suddenly find their fastballs this final week.

[fathom]

Nope. I picked 71, and possibly 72. If we're lucky.

 

Seriously, what's your prediction for this year.

[jphat007]

Not with the same hate for this organization that is being shown on this board day to day. When you do not like anything about the team anymore, you arent a fan, thats how it is.

 

This place often feels like a baseball prospectus "MLB" message board instead of a white sox fan site. I don't think there is anything wrong with being upset or something, but the vicious way that people on this site hate the players, manager, GM, team is a little out there. There are many times when I forget that I'm on a White Sox fan site. On my college message board, people get pissed at me because I'm pessimistic and negative. Go figure.

 

Seriously, what's your prediction for this year.

 

91 or so. But there could be a huge variation. COuld be 10 more or 10 less than that. It'll be interesting to watch, as long as I stay away from these boards as much as possible.

Edited March 27, 2007 by jphat007

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox have pretty much sucked in spring training the past several years, but the amount of hits they are giving up now is alarming. I hope the cold air wakes them up on Monday.

[fathom]

The White Sox have pretty much sucked in spring training the past several years, but the amount of hits they are giving up now is alarming. I hope the cold air wakes them up on Monday.

 

They're not fooling anyone, which is scary (besides Boone). It's hard to argue about our strength/conditioning coach due to the lack of injuries we've had the past few years, but you have to wonder what these guys have been doing over the past two offseasons. I've never seen a team just have their velocity drop almost across the board like ours last year, and the stories so far this offseason are scary.

[Flash Tizzle]

Yes, there is that much of a difference.

 

Also, you know what, Colorado made a great trade. KW wanted to get rid of Garcia (good move) and this is the most he could get. You really think he got better offers and turned them down ? That an old pitcher that has lost atleast 8 mph off his fastball that is at the end of his contract, and most likely career, is going to fetch a ton of top prospects from a team?

 

Garcia is gone, get over it. Any time you trade for prospects there is a chance they won't work out. There is also a chance they will.

Jason Jennings: 212IP, 206H, 17HR, 85BB, 142SO, .258 BAA, 3.78ERA

 

Freddy Garcia: 216IP, 228H, 32HR, 48BB, 135SO, .267 BAA, 4.53ERA

 

One obvious difference between the two is Garcia gave up 15 more HR's. But then again, he gave up 37 less walks in four more innings pitched. All in the American League. In the toughest division in baseball.

 

Is there really that much of a difference between Garcia and Jennings that Colorado receiving the #46 rated prospect in Hirsh (according to BP), a bullpen arm in Tyler Bucholz (good arm/mediocre results in minors), and a major league OF in Willy Tavares should exceed Gio Gonzalez (good arm/fair results) and Gavin Floyd (medicore arm/poor results)? Hell no. Admit it.

 

I've never said other teams could have thrown more at Williams. Just look at Philadelphia. I've already provided a quote within a Rosenthal article stating their baseball officials were shocked at our price. People just will continue to dismiss it, obviously.

 

Asking for Gonzalez doesn't bother me. It's just that lumbering pile of crap in Floyd. Remove him, add Fabio Castro and an additional arm, the White Sox have potential within the deal and an arm (Castro) who could be plugged into the bullpen. If not, stretch him out for the rotation in AAA.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Dick Allen]

They're not fooling anyone, which is scary (besides Boone). It's hard to argue about our strength/conditioning coach due to the lack of injuries we've had the past few years, but you have to wonder what these guys have been doing over the past two offseasons. I've never seen a team just have their velocity drop almost across the board like ours last year, and the stories so far this offseason are scary.

Its as if almost the entire bullpen has had a Billy Koch loss of velocity. We kept hearing how his would pop back until they dealt him to Florida.

[fathom]

Its as if almost the entire bullpen has had a Billy Koch loss of velocity. We kept hearing how his would pop back until they dealt him to Florida.

 

Using the reasoning many people stated for Garcia last year, does that mean our entire team is a bunch of pot heads?