sox-r-us Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) "These are guys everyone would want and most people in the industry view ultimately as top-of-the-rotation guys," Williams said last week at the winter meetings in Nashville. "Our pitching is not going to be a problem this year. We'll be just fine in that area." "Floyd showed us last year he's ready for full-time big-league work," Williams said. "So did John Danks. The only reason Danks did not pitch those last couple of weeks was because we knew what we had. But we wanted to see that in Gavin Floyd so we could take that next step with both of them." "We have the starting pitchers," Guillen said. "I don't know if we have a good enough lineup." http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines ========================== Where does Kenny get this confidence in these guys? Danks was decent for a while last year and Floyd was awful most of the time. I understand Floyd pitched well in the last month and Danks was also good from time to time, but the data set is not large enough to make any conclusions yet. Even if Kenny has confidence in them, shouldn't he just shut up? Do you guys really think these guys can pitch every 5th day, especially after seeing how Det has upgraded their O? I am fine with going with this direction, but I just wish Kenny would stop making statements that are based on hope at best. There is no data to show these guys will be successful as our #4 and 5 and this stuff about everyone else seeing these guys as top of the rotation is pure crap. Did Kenny learn from his debacle off season acquisitions from last year? Who here thought that Aardsma, Masset or Sisco were going to be any good? And what happened when they were called upon to pitch? Geez....KW can be so delusional sometimes and he does not get it that he needs to learn to manage expectations. If he had not made any comment about "getting the big fish" in the off season, no one would really be giving him grief for not getting anyone....now, if Floyd and Danks fail to deliver and are the reason we lose games, again, Kenny will get hell from the media and fans. Why not shut up and let it play out instead of raising expectations when there is no data to support it? Edited December 10, 2007 by sox-r-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 This just might be a 20 page thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(qwerty @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 08:51 AM) This just might be a 20 page thread... .... love your avatar and signature pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I hope like hell that Kenny and Ozzie are right about them. My own opinion is Danks would make a good #5 and Floyd didn't show much of anything. Seems like they're hitching their wagons to these guys, so I hope they surprise me. I'm not counting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'd be shocked if at least one of them don't fall flat on their face. Hope I'm wrong but the odds of them both being competent starters this season just aren't very high imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I think its kind of funny that people get all worked up when Ozzie or Kenny say these sorts of things. What do you expect them to say? My guys suck?! Heck, if anything, this tells me its likely that one of Danks or Floyd might get moved in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckweaver Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 As Deep Throat said to Woodward, "No, no, no...you're not seeing the big picture." Kenny's making this statement means one of them (if not both) is going to be dealt. He's just putting out the pub to make the trading team feel like their getting a top-of-the-rotation guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Gonzalez totally snaked every quote in his "article" from Cowley's blog last week. They are all in the Miguel Cabrera thread I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 08:17 AM) Gonzalez totally snaked every quote in his "article" from Cowley's blog last week. They are all in the Miguel Cabrera thread I believe. I was going to say that we already have a thread on this, but that's where it's from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Did we just compare sisco aardsma and masset with danks and floyd? They don't have even close to the pedigree of those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I think he is talking about their potential and this is being over blown here, like everything kenny does and says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 05:49 AM) I think its kind of funny that people get all worked up when Ozzie or Kenny say these sorts of things. What do you expect them to say? My guys suck?! Heck, if anything, this tells me its likely that one of Danks or Floyd might get moved in a trade. No kidding. Kenny just can't win with anybody. He says he's confident in his guys and he gets bashed? What's he supposed to say?! Can you imagine the reaction he'd get if he said he's really worried about the team he's assembled and didn't think any of his guys would pan out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 05:49 AM) I think its kind of funny that people get all worked up when Ozzie or Kenny say these sorts of things. What do you expect them to say? My guys suck?! Heck, if anything, this tells me its likely that one of Danks or Floyd might get moved in a trade. Ding Ding Ding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) Danks and Floyd don't worry me as much as Contreras as our #3. They all worry me but we've got who some consider the worst starting pitcher in baseball last season who may or may not be 65 years old in the 3 spot. Edited December 10, 2007 by bschmaranz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 To write off Danks after his first full year in the league is just moronic. Floyd, I can understand the worry. But, let's just see what Danks' got goin' on when THIS season starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 I am not writing anyone off. All I am asking for is for Kenny not to say anything....I am fine with the moves and the direction we are going with the pitching staff. I hate to give anything to the Chi media, who love to hate on the Sox when they do not meet what was considered to be an expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 05:49 AM) I think its kind of funny that people get all worked up when Ozzie or Kenny say these sorts of things. What do you expect them to say? My guys suck?! Heck, if anything, this tells me its likely that one of Danks or Floyd might get moved in a trade. I would just be better to not say anything rather than engage in massive reality denial. And if if Williams could trade Danks and/or Floyd for position players, he should do it. Floyd has never put up good numbers in tough competition at any level, unless you think last September means something. And his fastball isn't what it once was, which is sort of troubling. I think Danks is a bad fit for the Cell. It's ironic that the Sox traded McCarthy because they thought he'd give up too many HRs -- and then get Danks. And in what I saw of Danks last year, his control was just not good and his stuff wasn't good enough to make for that. If someone is still high on him, the Sox should consider moving him. Edited December 10, 2007 by hitlesswonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 These guys have potential, no doubt, but they are young, and mostly inexperienced. I would expect both to show flashes, but to mostly inconsistent. I don't think the White Sox have a chance in the AL Central unless one of those two guys gets 15 wins. Highly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 01:39 AM) I'd be shocked if at least one of them don't fall flat on their face. Hope I'm wrong but the odds of them both being competent starters this season just aren't very high imo. You're certainly right that between Floyd, Danks, and Contreras, the odds are high that at least one, if not 2 or even 3 of them are going to fall flat on their faces. The problem is...I defy anyone here to predict exactly which one is going to do so and exactly when. As I keep saying, right now, thanks to the weakness of our system, our only way back into it this year would be a lot of luck, and our only way to rebuild rapidly is to squeeze every ounce of value/talent out of the guys we currently have. We at least have 5 talented starting pitchers and a guy who we thought of 2 years ago as an incredible pitching coach working with them. If somehow all 5 have good years, we're right in this thing. If not, then we take a look at who blew up and replace them when it happens with Gio, Broadway, or Egbert. And if by some chance we see some success out of a couple of these guys, then we evaluate our position at the trading deadline w/regards to whether or not we hold onto them. I.e. Contreras has a good first half, but we're down in the division due to something else, like more bullpen failures, etc. At that point, you see that maybe Jose has rebuilt some trade value, and then you decide it's time to move him for some actual talent. You could even say the same thing about Floyd or Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 It's one thing to say that you are confident in your guys. It's another thing to say everyone in baseball thinks of these guys as top-of-the-rotation guys. He did the same thing with Crede in saying he's one of the best 3B in the league and that plenty of people would love to have him. You don't need to say stupid s*** like this. You aren't fooling anyone Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 05:49 AM) I think its kind of funny that people get all worked up when Ozzie or Kenny say these sorts of things. What do you expect them to say? My guys suck?! Heck, if anything, this tells me its likely that one of Danks or Floyd might get moved in a trade. I don't expect him to call them top of the rotation guys. He's flat out lying when he's doing that. I would expect him to say something along the lines of "We feel we have some good pitchers in John Danks and Gavin Floyd, and I'm sure that they will be very good for us this year." It's a bit more open for interpretation and doesn't flat out call them top of the rotation guys which every person in the industry can see they are not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) I am not writing anyone off. All I am asking for is for Kenny not to say anything....I am fine with the moves and the direction we are going with the pitching staff. I hate to give anything to the Chi media, who love to hate on the Sox when they do not meet what was considered to be an expectation. The media sticks a mic in his mouth at every opportunity. He is going to say something positive instead of negative or objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 11:02 AM) You're certainly right that between Floyd, Danks, and Contreras, the odds are high that at least one, if not 2 or even 3 of them are going to fall flat on their faces. The problem is...I defy anyone here to predict exactly which one is going to do so and exactly when. As I keep saying, right now, thanks to the weakness of our system, our only way back into it this year would be a lot of luck, and our only way to rebuild rapidly is to squeeze every ounce of value/talent out of the guys we currently have. We at least have 5 talented starting pitchers and a guy who we thought of 2 years ago as an incredible pitching coach working with them. If somehow all 5 have good years, we're right in this thing. If not, then we take a look at who blew up and replace them when it happens with Gio, Broadway, or Egbert. And if by some chance we see some success out of a couple of these guys, then we evaluate our position at the trading deadline w/regards to whether or not we hold onto them. I.e. Contreras has a good first half, but we're down in the division due to something else, like more bullpen failures, etc. At that point, you see that maybe Jose has rebuilt some trade value, and then you decide it's time to move him for some actual talent. You could even say the same thing about Floyd or Danks. Floyd will fall apart sooner rather than later; if he starts well, it'll be because it's cold, but I doubt even that helps him. There's one prediction; I'm not comfortable predicting what the other two do although I'd bet that Contreras gets worse as the year goes on, what with his health, and Danks gets gassed late in the summer (I, for one, still think Danks is a good young starter, but the innings scare me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 11:27 AM) Floyd will fall apart sooner rather than later; if he starts well, it'll be because it's cold, but I doubt even that helps him. There's one prediction; I'm not comfortable predicting what the other two do although I'd bet that Contreras gets worse as the year goes on, what with his health, and Danks gets gassed late in the summer (I, for one, still think Danks is a good young starter, but the innings scare me) Already building in your excuse in case he succeeds, I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 QUOTE(bschmaranz @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 07:23 AM) Danks and Floyd don't worry me as much as Contreras as our #3. They all worry me but we've got who some consider the worst starting pitcher in baseball last season who may or may not be 65 years old in the 3 spot. I know I should be worried about Contreras, but I have a feeling he's going to rebound and have a solid season. After him is when I get nervous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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