White Sox Acquire Nick Swisher from Athletics

[DBAHO]

How many people are going to keep b****ing about the farm system until you realize the absolutely solid core of young studs KW has collected. With a successful farm system, for a contender they usually have what, 3-5 players that are homegrown maximum, that are cheap, young, and hitting their peaks. We have our future middle of the order and possibly 2 arms in the rotation for basically the next SEVERAL years. The top levels of the farm system are so insignificant right now with that young core its ridiculous. KW turned Gio into thome and Swisher, thats ridiculous.

 

Swisher was poised to be Oakland's Konerko, at a younger age, with more athleticism, at a time where salaries are out of control. KW got him for basically an OF prospect that isnt a top ten for any team but us, an A ball pitcher with potential, and a player that could be good, but also has been traded 3 times for impact players already, and was traded with Floyd for freaking 3-game Freddy garcia.

You're right in saying our young core has improved.

 

We've basically replaced Podsednik, Iguchi, Erstad, Garcia and McCarthy from the start of 2006 with Quentin, Richar, Swisher, Floyd and Danks. So I give KW some credit at improving that part of our team.

 

However I disagree with you when you say the top levels of our farm system will be insignificant because of that young core. We still have a lot of old aging guys in our team, Contreras, Dye, Thome etc. that will need replacing in a few seasons.

 

The best option to do that should always be through the farm system, if the player is good enough. 6 years of control, with 3 seasons at around 350K prove that, and it shows why those type of guys are so valuable in today's market.

 

You can always try to replace those guys in free agency, but it's costing you more money, and you're probably going to give up more draft picks in the process. And we don't want to turn into the San Francisco Giants for example.

 

Right now, I think a huge key for this franchise in the next 5 years is how KW and his team re-stock the farm system.

 

They need to hit in this upcoming draft, and make some shrewd signings in the Latin American region. Because if they don't, in 4-5 years or so, we're not going to have any possible replacement in - house, and that is going to cost us dearly, since we'll have to overpay to get our guys in FA.

 

I see DLS as more than a A ball player with potential also. He's a possible top 10 prospect in baseball right now. If he does well in AA next season (which he should reach), it only enhances his value.

[CWSGuy406]

The Sox still have a lot of talent on their roster and the Indians and Tigers are far from a lock to make the playoffs next year.

 

If we were to go on percentages, they're better bets than the Sox are, that's for sure.

 

Why not go for it, right after you've re-signed your ace and have one more year of Thome and Crede?

 

You keep bringing up Crede... why? If Crede's at third that means Fields is in AAA, and Fields playing but one more game in AAA would be terrible. He has nothing left to do down there. If you stick Fields in left, that means the Quentin trade was utterly pointless, as he -- like Fields -- has nothing left to do in AAA.

 

If it doesn't work out, Paulie and Cabrera can be dealt at the deadline and the rebuilding process starts a few month early.

 

You also keep bringing up Cabrera, like he'd bring in an absolute haul at the deadline. I got news for you... Cabrera wouldn't bring back anything more than one B prospect (or a couple of even lesser prospects). Teams aren't going to give up top prospects for an average-ish player who you're only going to have for two months.

 

And how do you suppose that Mark and JD would react after Kenny sold them on contract extensions by telling them that they were going to go for it again in '08? Reneging on that promise would ruin his credibility and seriously damage his ability to re-sign vets in the future.

 

That's really not my problem. It was stupid for Kenny to make that promise -- when thinking about the long-term health of this franchise, saying "we're going for broke in 2008" is stupid as hell. I don't have to defend what Kenny said to JD or MB, especially if I don't agree with it in the slightest.

[TitoMB345]

I like the trade, atleast based off what I hear from A's fans. But, what the hell do we do with Crede right now? Where will he end up? He HAS to go.

[Chisoxfn]

If we were to go on percentages, they're better bets than the Sox are, that's for sure.

You keep bringing up Crede... why? If Crede's at third that means Fields is in AAA, and Fields playing but one more game in AAA would be terrible. He has nothing left to do down there. If you stick Fields in left, that means the Quentin trade was utterly pointless, as he -- like Fields -- has nothing left to do in AAA.

You also keep bringing up Cabrera, like he'd bring in an absolute haul at the deadline. I got news for you... Cabrera wouldn't bring back anything more than one B prospect (or a couple of even lesser prospects). Teams aren't going to give up top prospects for an average-ish player who you're only going to have for two months.

That's really not my problem. It was stupid for Kenny to make that promise -- when thinking about the long-term health of this franchise, saying "we're going for broke in 2008" is stupid as hell. I don't have to defend what Kenny said to JD or MB, especially if I don't agree with it in the slightest.

Keith, you are undervaluing Cabrera. He is not an averagish shortstop. As a whole he is an average offensive player, but all the other things he does, including the fact that he does it from shortstop makes him an above average player. I'm not going to say the Sox are going to get a boatload of prospects for him but they shouldn't deal him unless they got an A and B prospect, especially given the fact that if they hold onto him they should (barring some sort of a disaster of a season from OC) get 2 picks for him when he signs elsewhere.

[sircaffey]

Keith, you are undervaluing Cabrera. He is not an averagish shortstop. As a whole he is an average offensive player, but all the other things he does, including the fact that he does it from shortstop makes him an above average player. I'm not going to say the Sox are going to get a boatload of prospects for him but they shouldn't deal him unless they got an A and B prospect, especially given the fact that if they hold onto him they should (barring some sort of a disaster of a season from OC) get 2 picks for him when he signs elsewhere.

 

Judging by what Swisher got and considering he's under contract for 4 years plus an option at a very low level, there is no way you get an A prospect for Cabrera. Maybe a couple of B prospects, maybe.

[ptatc]

Swisher must live in Ohio in the offseason. Interesting new workout routine.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/24/sports/b...amp;oref=slogin

 

Isn't that a scene from a "Rocky" movie? In the freezing weather using a hammer while the competition is in a high tech gym being injected with steriods.

Edited January 4, 2008 by ptatc

[Chisoxfn]

Judging by what Swisher got and considering he's under contract for 4 years plus an option at a very low level, there is no way you get an A prospect for Cabrera. Maybe a couple of B prospects, maybe.

Would Jon Garland have gotten the Sox an A prospect, I think so. Therefor, I think OC does, considering there are many in baseball that believe the Sox got the better of the deal (which would mean his value is > Jon Garland's).

[Jack Parkman]

1. Cleveland and Detroit arent light years ahead of anyone. Both teams have question marks. Also baseball is very fickle, a team can win 90 2 years in a row and then win only 70 with almost the exact same team...

They are light years ahead of the Sox. Cleveland has Sabathia and Carmona and Detroit has Verlander and Bonderman at the top of the rotation, both whom have the ability to shut guys down in the playoffs. In 2 of 3 Buehrle playoff starts in 2005, he gave up 4 ER in 6 IP. Check Buehrle's career numbers against Boston and NYY. Mark is an excellent #2, but not anywhere close to an ace. Contreras is washed up. Javy can be that guy but gets knocked around too often to be considered one. Strike one:No ace. We have the fourth best pitching staff in the division if Santana stays in Minny. Detroit, Minny and Cleveland have better bullpens. Bullpens are volatile, and can go south at any minute. We only have 2 reliable bullpen guys. Though Borowski and Jones give their team's fans heart attacks in the ninth, they get the job done. Their middle and long relief are way better than us. Strike two: weak bullpen. Detroit has a lineup that is almost equal with the Yankees. We have to face them 19 times. IMO none of our pitchers will have an ERA below 4 this season except maybe Buehrle, who will at the lowest have a 3.90. Cleveland has Sizemore, Hafner, and Martinez, who are in their prime or are only going to get better, in Sizemore's case. They also have some young talented hitters. Minnesota's lineup is not as good as ours but they're the f***ing Twins who always find a way to pull a rabbit out of their hat. I HATE MINNY. Strike three. The Sox are out(of division contention)

 

2. Yes I read the thread. But Bearsox is not a scout. He is posting hearsay which is completely unreliable. You cant just rely on the statements of other people as gospel.

Check the minor league forum. There's this guy named Bureau who is a scout for the Sox. I was referring to him, not BearSox. The mods have verified his identity. Read the argument about Poreda.

 

3.

 

Thanks for proving my point. The Red Sox traded Sanchez and Hanley for Beckett. They won a world Series based on that trade.

Hanley and Sanchez would be two of the White Sox best prospects in the history of the team, and they were traded for a player who had never pitched over 200 innings in the NL.

Who'd of thunk it? When the trade went down I thought Boston got hosed. Though Beckett had ace stuff, I was convinced that Beckett was snake bitten by injuries. He had a 5.20 ERA in 2006. Who's to say the AL won't catch up to him again? He still has had injury problems, He was on the DL once this year.

 

And Garland was a Cubs prospect.

Who is the last White Sox pitcher the Sox drafted and was home grown like DLS or Gio....

Cant take credit for some one elses scouting department.

Garland was traded to the Sox as soon as the Cubs could trade him. He was drafted in June 1997 and traded in July 1998. He never pitched above low A ball with the Cubs. How can you credit the Cubs for developing him if he only pitched in rookie ball and a half season in Low A with them? The Sox scouts had to identify him in a trade, didn't they? IMO Garland counts, whether you like it or not.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Elgin Slim

[RockRaines]

You're right in saying our young core has improved.

 

We've basically replaced Podsednik, Iguchi, Erstad, Garcia and McCarthy from the start of 2006 with Quentin, Richar, Swisher, Floyd and Danks. So I give KW some credit at improving that part of our team.

 

However I disagree with you when you say the top levels of our farm system will be insignificant because of that young core. We still have a lot of old aging guys in our team, Contreras, Dye, Thome etc. that will need replacing in a few seasons.

 

The best option to do that should always be through the farm system, if the player is good enough. 6 years of control, with 3 seasons at around 350K prove that, and it shows why those type of guys are so valuable in today's market.

 

You can always try to replace those guys in free agency, but it's costing you more money, and you're probably going to give up more draft picks in the process. And we don't want to turn into the San Francisco Giants for example.

 

Right now, I think a huge key for this franchise in the next 5 years is how KW and his team re-stock the farm system.

 

They need to hit in this upcoming draft, and make some shrewd signings in the Latin American region. Because if they don't, in 4-5 years or so, we're not going to have any possible replacement in - house, and that is going to cost us dearly, since we'll have to overpay to get our guys in FA.

 

I see DLS as more than a A ball player with potential also. He's a possible top 10 prospect in baseball right now. If he does well in AA next season (which he should reach), it only enhances his value.

The good thing is that if any of those players leave in free agency, we get picks. If our team isnt contending at the deadline, we can get spects. I like this direction alot.

 

And there is no way in hell DLS is close to a top 10 prospect in baseball right now, no way in hell. In fact, many scouts project him in the bullpen in the future. Right this second, Gio is the main haul in this trade, by a long shot.

[sircaffey]

Would Jon Garland have gotten the Sox an A prospect, I think so. Therefor, I think OC does, considering there are many in baseball that believe the Sox got the better of the deal (which would mean his value is > Jon Garland's).

 

Are we talking about at the deadline? That's what I thought was the time frame. I think Cabrera could get a prospect like Gio now, but at the deadline at best we'd get a couple of Sweeneys. Garland would fetch more at the deadline purely due to everyone looking for pitching while there will only be a select few teams looking for a SS.

[CWSGuy406]

Would Jon Garland have gotten the Sox an A prospect, I think so. Therefor, I think OC does, considering there are many in baseball that believe the Sox got the better of the deal (which would mean his value is > Jon Garland's).

 

We're getting into the semantics of what an A prospect is, but no, I don't think Jon Garland would net the Sox an A prospect. I consider an A prospect to be one of the top 20 (or so -- this is admittedly a rather arbitrary number) prospects in all of baseball -- could Garland have netted a Justin Upton, a Phillip Hughes, a Clay Buccholz? I'm sorry, but there's no way Garland could net someone like that.

 

And now we're talking about dealing a player at the deadline. So some team is going to give up six years of an A prospect for two months of Orlando Cabrera? Even if I am underselling Cabrera a bit, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Sox get an A prospect for two months of The OC.

[sircaffey]

We're getting into the semantics of what an A prospect is, but no, I don't think Jon Garland would net the Sox an A prospect. I consider an A prospect to be one of the top 20 (or so -- this is admittedly a rather arbitrary number) prospects in all of baseball -- could Garland have netted a Justin Upton, a Phillip Hughes, a Clay Buccholz? I'm sorry, but there's no way Garland could net someone like that.

 

And now we're talking about dealing a player at the deadline. So some team is going to give up six years of an A prospect for two months of Orlando Cabrera? Even if I am underselling Cabrera a bit, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Sox get an A prospect for two months of The OC.

 

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Just for kicks, I would love to ask KW if this was plan 1-B, ... 1-X, 1-Y, 1-Z, 1-AA, ...

[Brian]

I'm willing to bet we extend OC sometime during the year.

[BearSox]

It's just hit me that Ryan Sweeney is no longer a White "Sock"... I am really sad right now.

[farmteam]

From all accounts he's a great guy off the field, which is always a plus.

[RockRaines]

From all accounts he's a great guy off the field, which is always a plus.

He was the face of Oakland's team, the GM's pet player, its a pretty good get.

[Brian]

It's just hit me that Ryan Sweeney is no longer a White "Sock"... I am really sad right now.

 

It's more like he is no longer a Charlotte Knight.

[BearSox]

It's more like he is no longer a Charlotte Knight.

that hurts...

[Heads22]

that hurts...

 

 

Jump on the Egbert bandwagon. I'm driving, but there's room.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

It's more like he is no longer a Charlotte Knight.

 

 

And AAAA Hall of Fame potential.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Jump on the Egbert bandwagon. I'm driving, but there's room.

 

I'd call shotgun but I am already abroad the Broadway Bus. Can I ride in the Egbert sidecar?

[southsideirish71]

''Ultimately the people in Oakland will love what they got in this deal,'' Williams said, ''but we're going to be about winning a championship in 2008. We asked ourselves, 'Who helps us toward winning a championship in the immediate future?' and that answer is Nick Swisher over the kids.''

 

Does he really believe that this is a championship level team?

 

 

 

 

[southsideirish71]

I'd call shotgun but I am already abroad the Broadway Bus. Can I ride in the Egbert sidecar?

 

 

I amongst others were trying to steer clear of the Broadway Bus, and the McCullouch MiniCooper when they were paraded as the number 1 picks.

 

 

 

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Nick plays 1st base . Add his and Fields power for a full season and that makes Konerko expendable. Trade PK to the Angels for Figgins and E. Santana. Now you have a CF , a leadoff man, another rotation/bullpen piece, more versatility, and more speed. Angels still have Hunter, Matthews Willits , Guerrero so Figgins is tradable as is Santana with the acquisition of Garland. Thoughts ??