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Steve9347

White Sox Acquire Nick Swisher from Athletics

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QUOTE(Brian @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 09:02 PM)
Like Jeremy Reed?

 

No matter how good or bad Sweeney becomes, he was never going to get a chance here. Like Brian Anderson won't.

Jeremy Reed's swing is nothing compared to Ryan's.

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 07:03 PM)
LOL, strange that he's still here and Ryan isn't.

Anderson has less trade value.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 08:56 PM)
This is just wrong...

 

ph_435220.jpg

 

he looks like a stud .. heh

 

Sweeney was one of my favorite players in the minors right with Fields. I always cheered for him when he came up, but yeah he just never performed how the Sox wanted him to and thats too bad.

 

When I first heard about the trade I instantly hated it like probably most people did, but as I let it soak in last night I liked it because its easy to see it from the Sox view. The Sox seemed to think Sweeney, although only 22, should have been ready by now and that was stupid thinking, but with all the OF we have now I suppose he could be had and then you hear all the stuff about DLS being best suitable in the bullpen it made the trade a bit easier to take in. Gio on the other hand, yeah he looked like he could have been great shutting down as a #2 or #3 pitcher in the Sox rotation, but we are not talking about a Clayton Kershaw or a Johnny Cueto, I think we can recover from it.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 09:06 PM)
Anderson has less trade value.

 

Either way, I thought he'd be gone by now. Definitely not Sweeney.

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QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 06:27 PM)
Some folks feel that OBP is king when it comes to leadoff hitting. Depends on your perspective. Swisher provides power, but this lineup is already pretty well powered up in the middle.

 

Since everyone else is doing it, here would be my lineup...

 

Cabrera, SS

Swisher, CF

Thome, DH

Konerko, 1B

Dye, RF

Pierzynski, C

Fields, 3B

Quentin, LF

Richar, 2B

While I agree with that mentality, the OBP of Cabrera isn't exactly a liability even if he's a better #2 hitter. You still have all the OBP in the world with Swisher in the 2 hole, I mean to have a guy who could potentially get on at a .400 clip (and 30 HR potential to boot) batting behind a relatively fast .350 type leadoff hitter, followed up by the now-proverbial Thome-Konerko-Dye, I don't mind that at all.

Edited by lostfan

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I thought Sweeney brought something to the team that everyone wanted..more of a doubles hitter instead of a power guy in which we have far too many of the softballers. Too bad he didn't get much of a real chance here.

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QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 10:13 PM)
I like Ocab as much as the next guy, but where do you get the idea Cabrera is a .350 OBP player? He has never posted a .350 OBP, and owns a .321 career OBP.

I got lazy, and I looked only at last year's stats. I forgot, I do recall saying a few weeks ago that Owens is better suited to lead off because he was probably going to have about 40 points higher OBP than Cabrera.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 10:01 PM)
Am I the only one who hates trading lefties with natural swings and loads of potential?

Wow dude, get over it already. He's nothing special. Natural swings didn't get his ass anywhere. And his loads of potential was good enough to be 6-8 in the White Sox s***ty farm system.

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QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 07:28 PM)
I really hope this isn't true, because if it is, the trade would be an disaster.

 

Or, Owens has turned into a .370 OBP player, which is, well, :lol:

Owens could well put up a .350 OBP next year, he put up a .340 obp in his 2nd callup, in sort of an average year cabrera winds up around .320.

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QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 10:28 PM)
I really hope this isn't true, because if it is, the trade would be an disaster.

 

Or, Owens has turned into a .370 OBP player, which is, well, :lol:

LOL, I was uber confused when I read that as well.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 10:29 PM)
Owens could well put up a .350 OBP next year, he put up a .340 obp in his 2nd callup, in sort of an average year cabrera winds up around .320.

That's what I was getting at... I guess on a baseball forum where people cling to stats as gospel I shouldn't have stated an exact number like 40, which was intended to be totally random. But it's not at all inconceivable to think that Owens would get on base at a .350 clip with a full seasons' worth of ABs (assuming he'd get it) in his second year.

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QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 09:26 PM)
Wow dude, get over it already. He's nothing special. Natural swings didn't get his ass anywhere. And his loads of potential was good enough to be 6-8 in the White Sox s***ty farm system.

And hitting .270 in Charlotte. What a great swing.

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QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:46 AM)
Up until last season, Robertson and Bonderman were steadily improving each season in the bigs. They certainly haven't proven they suck. If these guys suck what the hell does that make Contreras who has been in steady decline or Danks/Floyd who have done jack s*** in the bigs?

 

I love how some people point to other teams players and say they suck after down seasons, yet they are the same people pointing to some of the Sox players' down years as reasons why the Sox will be better in 2008. Which is it? Let's be realistic here.

I only used the word proven because some other poster did. Obviously nothing in baseball is completely proven.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY, I looked at their career averages. They are below average pitchers. People keep putting words in my mouth, saying I am basing my opinion on one down year. I am not. I thought I made that clear already. Is English your second language?

 

I feel like this is a tigers fan site lately.

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i like swisher leading off.

 

1. swisher

2. ocab

3. thome

4.konerko

5. dye

6. pierzynski

7. fields

8. quentin

9. chad michael murray

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QUOTE(max power @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:09 PM)
I only used the word proven because some other poster did. Obviously nothing in baseball is completely proven.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY, I looked at their career averages. They are below average pitchers. People keep putting words in my mouth, saying I am basing my opinion on one down year. I am not. I thought I made that clear already. Is English your second language?

 

I feel like this is a tigers fan site lately.

 

You looked at the career averages of a 25 year old player, ignoring the statistical trends, and concluded he sucks? Don't you think career averages are quite misleading in this case? Especially when you consider Bonderman was 9-1 w/ 3.48 ERA in 16 first half starts (continuing his career trend) until dealing with elbow trouble the rest of the season. I could understand looking at career averages for pitchers who jump around statistically, but the trends in these cases are pretty steady.

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QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:43 PM)
You looked at the career averages of a 25 year old player, ignoring the statistical trends, and concluded he sucks? Don't you think career averages are quite misleading in this case? Especially when you consider Bonderman was 9-1 w/ 3.48 ERA in 16 first half starts (continuing his career trend) until dealing with elbow trouble the rest of the season. I could understand looking at career averages for pitchers who jump around statistically, but the trends in these cases are pretty steady.

I think what is important is that he has played enough seasons to be evaluated to a certain degree, not how old he is. This all started with me saying he is a question mark, I believe. That was my point. "Sucks" was an exaggeration.

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QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 09:46 PM)
And hitting .270 in Charlotte. What a great swing.

Make fun now, but we will regret trading him and DLS... Gio, I can live with getting traded.

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Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

Anyway, I'd like to compare last season, and career numbers for two players - Jack Egbert, and Gio Gonzalez:

 

Egbert 2007

W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%

12 8 3.06 28 28 0 0 0 0 161.2 138 63 55 3 44 165 6 0 7.68 0.17 2.45 9.19 1.13 --

 

Egbert Career (4 MiLB seasons)

W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%

35 24 2.93 104 90 4 3 0 -- 529.0 461 215 172 12 179 468 23 -- 7.84 0.20 3.05 7.96 1.21 --

 

Gio 2007

W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%

9 7 3.18 27 27 0 0 0 0 150.0 116 57 53 10 57 185 5 2 6.96 0.60 3.42 11.10 1.15 --

 

Gio Career (4 MiLB seasons)

W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%

31 28 3.49 91 89 0 0 -- 0 492.1 400 215 191 43 206 577 23 -- 7.32 0.79 3.77 10.55 1.23 --

 

Egbert is two years older, but the stats are pretty close, with an edge to Egbert (IMO) due to the extra innings thrown, starts made, lower HR/9, BB/9, WHIP, and ERA.

 

I guess the point of this comparison is to ask why so many people seem to think Gio was such a "can't miss" prospect with a ceiling of a #3 or #2 starter, when Egbert has anywhere from a slightly worse (considering the difference two years can make development-wise, though considering they both have four years experience, I'm not sure this is the case) to slightly better career line, but is considered a 4th or 5th starter at best.

 

I think we as fans need to stop over-hyping our prospects, and realize we got a guy who can play all outfield positions as well as first base, and easily put up an 850-900 OPS for five years without breaking the bank like we would have for Hunter or Rowand. People also seem to forget we would have lost draft picks in signing either of those players as well, and that Swisher is a much safer bet to produce over the long-term than either Hunter or Rowand. And really, all we lost was a solid pitching prospect with some durability issues (Gio), an A ball pitcher who seems to project best as a short reliever (DLS), and a guy who couldn't hit over .280 in AAA, nor hit more than 13 home runs in a bandbox stadium (Sweeney). For a player with the ability and contract status of Swisher, I'd make that trade anyday.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 01:56 AM)
Make fun now, but we will regret trading him and DLS... Gio, I can live with getting traded.

Interesting that that is pretty much the opposite of everyone else's opinion? Most people are upset about losing Gio, and not quite as much about losing DLS/Sweeney. At least thats what I gather.

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QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 12:59 AM)
Interesting that that is pretty much the opposite of everyone else's opinion? Most people are upset about losing Gio, and not quite as much about losing DLS/Sweeney. At least thats what I gather.

there's gotta be a reason why you are traded 3 times in 3 years. I like Gio, but I'd keep DLS over him in a heartbeat. DLS's stuff, from what I have seen, is much superior.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 02:13 AM)
there's gotta be a reason why you are traded 3 times in 3 years. I like Gio, but I'd keep DLS over him in a heartbeat. DLS's stuff, from what I have seen, is much superior.

Not to be interrogating or anything, buy just curious, how much of DLS have you actually seen? I've only seen him in the ML ASG...

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 02:13 AM)
there's gotta be a reason why you are traded 3 times in 3 years. I like Gio, but I'd keep DLS over him in a heartbeat. DLS's stuff, from what I have seen, is much superior.

I'm so tired of this argument. There are still two parties agreeing to every trade, as far as I know.

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QUOTE(almagest @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 12:59 AM)
Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

Anyway, I'd like to compare last season, and career numbers for two players - Jack Egbert, and Gio Gonzalez:

 

Welcome aboard! It would be very nice if Egbert can continue his development. I think Gio being a lefty and such a reportedly nice kid will make many of us miss him. However, I agree with you getting Swish was a great move. Good point about the draft picks lost had the Sox signed Rowand/Hunter. Nice contribution. I hope you find time to post more often.

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QUOTE(almagest @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 12:59 AM)
Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

Anyway, I'd like to compare last season, and career numbers for two players - Jack Egbert, and Gio Gonzalez:

 

Egbert 2007

W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%

12 8 3.06 28 28 0 0 0 0 161.2 138 63 55 3 44 165 6 0 7.68 0.17 2.45 9.19 1.13 --

 

Egbert Career (4 MiLB seasons)

W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%

35 24 2.93 104 90 4 3 0 -- 529.0 461 215 172 12 179 468 23 -- 7.84 0.20 3.05 7.96 1.21 --

 

Gio 2007

W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%

9 7 3.18 27 27 0 0 0 0 150.0 116 57 53 10 57 185 5 2 6.96 0.60 3.42 11.10 1.15 --

 

Gio Career (4 MiLB seasons)

W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%

31 28 3.49 91 89 0 0 -- 0 492.1 400 215 191 43 206 577 23 -- 7.32 0.79 3.77 10.55 1.23 --

 

Egbert is two years older, but the stats are pretty close, with an edge to Egbert (IMO) due to the extra innings thrown, starts made, lower HR/9, BB/9, WHIP, and ERA.

 

I guess the point of this comparison is to ask why so many people seem to think Gio was such a "can't miss" prospect with a ceiling of a #3 or #2 starter, when Egbert has anywhere from a slightly worse (considering the difference two years can make development-wise, though considering they both have four years experience, I'm not sure this is the case) to slightly better career line, but is considered a 4th or 5th starter at best.

 

I think we as fans need to stop over-hyping our prospects, and realize we got a guy who can play all outfield positions as well as first base, and easily put up an 850-900 OPS for five years without breaking the bank like we would have for Hunter or Rowand. People also seem to forget we would have lost draft picks in signing either of those players as well, and that Swisher is a much safer bet to produce over the long-term than either Hunter or Rowand. And really, all we lost was a solid pitching prospect with some durability issues (Gio), an A ball pitcher who seems to project best as a short reliever (DLS), and a guy who couldn't hit over .280 in AAA, nor hit more than 13 home runs in a bandbox stadium (Sweeney). For a player with the ability and contract status of Swisher, I'd make that trade anyday.

 

Great post!

 

 

I would love to see Egbert have a great spring and open the season as the #5 starter, especially since I still have no faith in Gavin Floyd. On the other hand, I am starting to see a new side to being a Sox fan; don't get to attached to your prospects. Just a hunch, but if Egbert makes the big show, it may be in another uniform. These is something special about seeing a minor league come through the system and thrive at the big leagues. It is kind of like raising a child. But a lot more Brian Andersons have come through the system than Magglios

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