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White Sox Acquire Nick Swisher from Athletics

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QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:12 PM)
Again, Gillick gave up Gio for a washed-up Freddy. That seems to support the notion supported by some here that he's at least somewhat overrated. He'll probably be a halfway decent starter, but we already have Danks, Floyd, and Broadway... along with Mark and Javy under contract for several more years.

 

Again, why would you use a year old trade as a means of evaluating a prospect when there are much more accurate measures. If you see something red flags in scouting assessments or his performance then point to it. Trying to find meaning in a multi player trade that occurred a year ago is worthless.

 

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:12 PM)
De Los Santos appears to have highest upside, but he's a good three years away. Sweeney is an afterthought in a suddenly-crowded outfield.

 

I don't know why people have suddenly come to the conclusion that outstanding prospects always spend a full year at each level. That's pretty far from the truth. Regardless, I don't think it matters how far away he is because my point is simply that we shouldn't decimate our farm system to the extent that it's by far the worst in baseball. Whether DLS would help in a year or three years, he's a good prospect who can quite possibly help the team win games down the road for very little money.

 

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:12 PM)
I agree, but I don't think that's the point of this trade. Swisher's under contract until 2012 and he's only making $6-$8 million/year. It sounds to me like Kenny wants to rebuild around Swisher, regardless of what happens this season.

Our farm system already sucks. Dealing these three guys doesn't change that.

 

If that's the case then Kenny's stupider than I thought. You don't rebuild around 27 year old players; Swisher will be exiting his peak in three seasons. You build around players like Gio or DLS because you can get six pretty cheap years out of them and they'll still be in their prime when that six year period ends.

 

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:12 PM)
Our farm system already sucks. Dealing these three guys doesn't change that.

 

Sure it does. There's a world of difference between a poor farm system and one that's by far the worst in the game.

 

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:12 PM)
What's the worst that can happen? If the Sox fail to make the playoffs this year (which I agree is likely), they deal Paulie and Cabrera at the deadline for prospects to replenish their craphole of a farm system. They can also deal JD for prospects and buy out Thome's option next year to save more money.

 

The worst that can happen is a need for a full scale rebuilding effort with a bare farm system. That's pretty bad because you have to wait several years to acquire talent and then several years to integrate the talent. As I said in my last post, seven years without contending is the worst case scenario and that's horrific. I've already explained why I don't think we can replenish the farm system through trades.

 

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:12 PM)
The real problem with the Sox is that their scouting department is completely f'ed up. I'd rather fix that and try to get by with proven major-league talent in the meantime than put all of my hopes on Gio and DLS with an irrational Ron Schueler-like optimism.

 

Of course improving the scouting is important. That doesn't mean that we might as well gut the farm system of the few good prospects we have. The fact that our means in bringing in young talent right now is poor is actually a strong argument in favor of retaining our few quality prospects. It's not an issue of pinning the team's hopes on a couple players, the issue is that if you trade away all of your best prospects you can never improve the team via the farm system and that makes it extremely hard to have success.

 

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:23 PM)
How many people are going to keep b****ing about the farm system until you realize the absolutely solid core of young studs KW has collected. With a successful farm system, for a contender they usually have what, 3-5 players that are homegrown maximum, that are cheap, young, and hitting their peaks. We have our future middle of the order and possibly 2 arms in the rotation for basically the next SEVERAL years. The top levels of the farm system are so insignificant right now with that young core its ridiculous. KW turned Gio into thome and Swisher, thats ridiculous.

 

Our young core pales in comparison to a lot of teams. Fields, Quentin, Richar, Danks. That's it. Richar could be solid but doesn't have a huge upside. I like Fields and Quentin but neither looks like a world beater. Danks was never an elite prospect and put up an ERA of five and half last year so he has to be considered a bit of a question mark. Players like Broadway and Floyd are not highly regarded and someone like Swisher is not too young. Compare that to the young cores in places like Cleveland or Boston and it's nothing to get excited about. Most teams have a young core as good or better than ours and they still have the opportunity to further improve via their farm system in the future while we don't.

 

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:29 PM)
We can only hope that as Buerhle came through in the shadows of Kip Wells, Jon Garland (who panned out), Aaron Myette, Matt Ginter, and Lorenzo Barcelo....that Lance Broadway can do the same (outplaying Gio/DSL/etc).

 

Unfortunately, absolutely nothing indicates that will be the case. Buehrle was excellent in the minors whereas Broadway has been very mediocre.

 

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:50 PM)
Would Jon Garland have gotten the Sox an A prospect, I think so. Therefor, I think OC does, considering there are many in baseball that believe the Sox got the better of the deal (which would mean his value is > Jon Garland's).

 

Hard to say. Regardless, there's a huge difference between a player with a year left on his contract and a player with a few months left.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 09:05 PM)
Jeremy Reed's swing is nothing compared to Ryan's.

 

You sound like a little kid who has lost his teddy bear.

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QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 04:17 PM)
Unfortunately, absolutely nothing indicates that will be the case. Buehrle was excellent in the minors whereas Broadway has been very mediocre.

Broadway was unimpressive in AAA last year (although not outright bad, either) but to say his whole minor league career has been mediocre is a stretch. Both he and Buehrle were so-so at A and good at AA, Broadway didn't put up good stats when he got called up to AAA though (Buehrle came straight from AA, IIRC).

 

However, I'm not trying to imply that I think Broadway will ever be the pitcher Buehrle is... Broadway doesn't have anywhere near the command Buehrle does so he won't be able to get away with not having overpowering stuff as easily.

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QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 03:27 PM)
You sound like a little kid who has lost his teddy bear.

 

Maybe more like a disgruntled fan who hates the direction this team is going in.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:18 PM)
Maybe more like a disgruntled fan who hates the direction this team is going in.

Maybe no. Objectively, he is right. Sorry, no offense. Look at your sig. You might want to just get a sign that says "The end is nigh" and stand outside US Cellular field.

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My love affair with Ryan Sweeney has nothing to do with the direction this team is going in. The only way this team can compete in the near future is by spending loads of money in FA and as we all have seen, Kenny Williams in unwilling to do that.

 

Swisher is a nice player, but he isn't a FHOF and he isn't Miguel Cabrera. Look at all the good teams in baseball, all of them have good farm systems, except the Tigers now, but they got Cabrera and a pitching staff.

 

The only way we will compete in 2008 is if we average at least 5-6 runs per game.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:43 PM)
My love affair with Ryan Sweeney has nothing to do with the direction this team is going in. The only way this team can compete in the near future is by spending loads of money in FA and as we all have seen, Kenny Williams in unwilling to do that.

 

Dude.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:43 PM)
My love affair with Ryan Sweeney has nothing to do with the direction this team is going in. The only way this team can compete in the near future is by spending loads of money in FA and as we all have seen, Kenny Williams in unwilling to do that.

 

Swisher is a nice player, but he isn't a FHOF and he isn't Miguel Cabrera. Look at all the good teams in baseball, all of them have good farm systems, except the Tigers now, but they got Cabrera and a pitching staff.

 

The only way we will compete in 2008 is if we average at least 5-6 runs per game.

 

Just for clarification on your sig prediction, since the Central has more teams than the West...

 

Are you only betting on the standings or overall records?

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:43 PM)
The only way this team can compete in the near future is by spending loads of money in FA

lol

 

I don't care what sport you're talking about, that is a thoroughly retarded approach to running a franchise unless you have unlimited resources like the Yankees, and even then it's not necessarily the best option.

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QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:46 PM)
Just for clarification on your sig prediction, since the Central has more teams than the West...

 

Are you only betting on the standings or overall records?

There are 14 teams in the american league. All of them are in the standings. Of those 14 teams, I am predicting that the A's will finish higher then then the White Sox in the overall American League standings.

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QUOTE(lostfan @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:48 PM)
lol

 

I don't care what sport you're talking about, that is a thoroughly retarded approach to running a franchise unless you have unlimited resources like the Yankees, and even then it's not necessarily the best option.

 

Then how will we compete? By trading some prospects for major league players? That's a nice theory when you actually have prospects other teams would want to trade for... how how about we bring up some prospects who can contribute a la Joba Champerlin? Oh wait, we don't have any good prospects who we could call up and make a difference.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:54 PM)
Then how will we compete? By trading some prospects for major league players? That's a nice theory when you actually have prospects other teams would want to trade for... how how about we bring up some prospects who can contribute a la Joba Champerlin? Oh wait, we don't have any good prospects who we could call up and make a difference.

 

Brian Anderson, might be the best defensive replacement in all of the minor leagues right now.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:50 PM)
There are 14 teams in the american league. All of them are in the standings. Of those 14 teams, I am predicting that the A's will finish higher then then the White Sox in the overall American League standings.

 

Okay, just wanted to see what you meant by that with the wording you used.

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QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:55 PM)
Brian Anderson, might be the best defensive replacement in all of the minor leagues right now.

 

 

LOL. :notworthy

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QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:55 PM)
Brian Anderson, might be the best defensive replacement in all of the minor leagues right now.

key word, I said good.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:54 PM)
Then how will we compete? By trading some prospects for major league players? That's a nice theory when you actually have prospects other teams would want to trade for... how how about we bring up some prospects who can contribute a la Joba Champerlin? Oh wait, we don't have any good prospects who we could call up and make a difference.

 

Champerlin?

 

anyways thats a bold prediction in your sig and im 100% sure your going to wrong.

 

you can add that to your sig

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:43 PM)
My love affair with Ryan Sweeney has nothing to do with the direction this team is going in. The only way this team can compete in the near future is by spending loads of money in FA and as we all have seen, Kenny Williams in unwilling to do that.

 

Swisher is a nice player, but he isn't a FHOF and he isn't Miguel Cabrera. Look at all the good teams in baseball, all of them have good farm systems, except the Tigers now, but they got Cabrera and a pitching staff.

 

The only way we will compete in 2008 is if we average at least 5-6 runs per game.

I respectfully disagree. I think your negativity, like most people's here, is holistic and therefore everything is intertwined to a certain extent.

 

No, that's not the only way we compete.

Edited by max power

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:03 PM)
key word, I said good.

 

John Sickels and ZIPS have high opinions of Egbert, and I'm guessing KW does too.

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QUOTE(JFields27 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:04 PM)
anyways thats a bold prediction in your sig and im 100% sure your going to wrong.

Damn, I didn't know the grammar nazis were in town this weekend...

 

Excuse me, Chamberlin. Wait, I forgot the a before the i. Chamberlain. Sometimes I type fast without thinking about the spelling. Sorry if I don't live up to your standards.

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:10 PM)
John Sickels and ZIPS have high opinions of Egbert, and I'm guessing KW does too.

I like Egbert too... but he ain't no top teir prospect who will be lights out when he comes to the bigs.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:12 PM)
Damn, I didn't know the grammar nazis were in town this weekend...

 

Excuse me, Chamberlin. Wait, I forgot the a before the i. Chamberlain. Sometimes I type fast without thinking about the spelling. Sorry if I don't live up to your standards.

 

...

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QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:10 PM)
John Sickels and ZIPS have high opinions of Egbert, and I'm guessing KW does too.

Doesn't ZIPS also have a very low opinion of the 2008 White Sox even with Swisher? Are we supposed to think they are accurate when positively predicting a White Sox player, and a bunch of crap when their projection is less than we hope? I hope some of these minor league pitchers can do something on the major league level because pitchers get hurt and some are ineffective. When the White Sox won it all, they needed 3 closers. With the price of pitching today, either KW is going for it for 1 year and then holding a massive firesale for prospects, or he thinks none of his pitchers will ever get hurt, or be ineffective, or he plans on having a few drafts of the century.

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