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BobDylan

What the hell do I do?

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I'm set to graduate in a few months. Creative writing degree. I'd like to move to Toronto, but I don't think it's smart to limit my locations when I need a damn job that'll take care of me. I have no references, pretty much no job experience in any writing field. I have a portfolio (short stories, etc.) No start on a novel.

 

Help me before I s*** my pants.

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This is the first time in the history of this fine institution that a freshman has given this address.

 

Mr. Thornton Melon.

 

 

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Dean Martin, President Sinclair, and members of the graduating class.

 

I have only one thing to say to you today...

it's a jungle out there.

 

You gotta look out for number one. But don't step in number two.

 

And so, to all you graduates...

as you go out into the world, my advice to you is...

 

DON'T GO!!!

IT'S ROUGH OUT THERE!!

Move back with your parents - let THEM worry about it!!!

 

 

 

 

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Try to get some work experience / internship maybe?

 

Although it's certainly not the easiest field to do so (unlike something such as accounting or finance).

 

Probably keep building up that portfolio I guess.

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What do you want to do? The best advice I ever got was to pick something that sounded fun and interesting and try it for a couple of years. What's the appeal of Toronto?

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I want to write books, but I need something to pay the bills in the meantime. The appeal of Toronto is the cold weather and city. I know I can get that here in Chicago, but I'm tired of Chicago and it's retarded expensive to live here.

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 10:57 AM)
I want to write books, but I need something to pay the bills in the meantime. The appeal of Toronto is the cold weather and city. I know I can get that here in Chicago, but I'm tired of Chicago and it's retarded expensive to live here.

 

I suggest hardcore porn. If that doesnt work, you can always be a pimp

 

In all seriousness, what kind of job are you considering to pay the bills until your novels start flying off the bookshelves? writing for a paper? advertising? something completely different so you arent burnt out on writing all the time?

 

 

 

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QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 11:03 AM)
I suggest hardcore porn. If that doesnt work, you can always be a pimp

 

In all seriousness, what kind of job are you considering to pay the bills until your novels start flying off the bookshelves? writing for a paper? advertising? something completely different so you arent burnt out on writing all the time?

 

I've considered manual labor so as not to burn myself out writing. I really do not want to work behind a desk, but with my skills, that is my best option. I'm well educated in web design/building (however, only one web page to show for it) and have writing skills. I wouldn't mind writing speeches, but I'm not exactly thrilled about that idea. What I want to do most (if I can even say that with a straight face), probably, is go into editing. I've been a part of the editing for process for one book that is due out on shelves shortly. However, when I saw the professional go at it and saw what kind of input she had, I was, well, not exactly in her league. I more or less helped the author build ideas, flesh chapters out and omit needless portions. The professional was well schooled in grammar (I am not, hence the "creative" path I took) and worked almost soley on making sure the book made grammatical sense. It was a business book (and deathly boring to read), so I wonder, perhaps, that editors work differently when working with creative writing.

 

I've considered journalism. I apologize to all the journalists out there before I even write this, but I've always stayed away from the field and gaining experience in it because I don't think it takes much of a writer to write journalism. Although, it does require skills I do not have. (Interviewing, people skills--I am terribly uncomfortable around peole I don't know, and, well, frankly, I don't think I have it in me to write an article every day or even just a few times a week.) There are probably journalism fields that don't require the people skills.

 

In all honesty, I don't care what I end up working in. I know I'll hate it because I'm not the 9-5 type of person. I hated school even though I was doing something I enjoyed. I'm not even totally concerned with salary. I don't need $100,000/year (but I'm not against it!). Even just $20,000 a year is sufficient enough with my lifestyle--as long as I have health benefits to go along.

 

I've thought about hardcore porn, too. Trust me. Helped a guy write a screenplay once. It was just... weird.

Edited by BobDylan

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 11:57 AM)
I want to write books, but I need something to pay the bills in the meantime. The appeal of Toronto is the cold weather and city. I know I can get that here in Chicago, but I'm tired of Chicago and it's retarded expensive to live here.

Well, you'd fit right in in Boston...

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 11:26 AM)
I've thought about hardcore porn, too. Trust me. Helped a guy write a screenplay once. It was just... weird.

 

Ha, thats awesome, you should post the plot and script

 

 

I dont know, from reading what you posted, it almost seems like web design would suit you best as to keep your creative juices flowing(ha, porn joke!) and not burn you out on writing. Thats just my opinion of course.

 

It must feel pretty exciting to be looking forward to this though. Some big changes on the way

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Have you thought about grad school? I think if you lack meaningful experience and/or connections in the field be prepared to be on the job search for a while. Getting your masters or phd will afford you another few years to get internships, jobs, etc. The most underutilized resource for jobs, imo, are professors. Get in the good graces with one you like, and they'll open up lots of opportunities as they normally have pretty good rolodexes.

 

Also, just so you know, the editor/publisher field is insanely competitive, at least here in Chicago. My GF is in that now, and she's the perfect 4.0 gpa, top 5 school, never paid for anything in college/grad school (tuition wise) types.

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QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 11:33 AM)
Ha, thats awesome, you should post the plot and script

 

[scene]

 

[doorbell rings]

MAN: Did someone order a pizza?

WOMAN: I did.

MAN: Well, here's your pizza....with extra sausage!

[zipper sound]

 

[/scene]

 

Seems easy enough!

:D

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QUOTE(The Critic @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 02:45 PM)
[scene]

 

[doorbell rings]

MAN: Did someone order a pizza?

WOMAN: I did.

MAN: Well, here's your pizza....with extra sausage!

[zipper sound]

 

[/scene]

 

Seems easy enough!

:D

 

 

And another Joe Francis is born ;)

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If you do move to Toronto and get an editing job...can you speak Canadian?

 

 

:ph34r:

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QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 03:23 PM)
If you do move to Toronto and get an editing job...can you speak Canadian?

:ph34r:

 

What are you talking a-boot?

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Read Kerouac's On the Road

 

Follow his guide, I highlighted a couple things for recent college grads

1. Scribbled secret notebooks, and wild typewritten pages, for yr own joy

2. Submissive to everything, open, listening

3. Try never get drunk outside yr own house

4. Be in love with yr life

5. Something that you feel will find its own form

6. Be crazy dumbsaint of the mind

7. Blow as deep as you want to blow

8. Write what you want bottomless from bottom of the mind

9. The unspeakable visions of the individual

10. No time for poetry but exactly what is

11. Visionary tics shivering in the chest

12. In tranced fixation dreaming upon object before you

13. Remove literary, grammatical and syntactical inhibition

14. Like Proust be an old teahead of time

jack-small.jpg15. Telling the true story of the world in interior monolog

16. The jewel center of interest is the eye within the eye

17. Write in recollection and amazement for yourself

18. Work from pithy middle eye out, swimming in language sea

19. Accept loss forever

20. Believe in the holy contour of life

21. Struggle to sketch the flow that already exists intact in mind

22. Dont think of words when you stop but to see picture better

23. Keep track of every day the date emblazoned in yr morning

24. No fear or shame in the dignity of yr experience, language & knowledge

25. Write for the world to read and see yr exact pictures of it

26. Bookmovie is the movie in words, the visual American form

27. In praise of Character in the Bleak inhuman Loneliness

28. Composing wild, undisciplined, pure, coming in from under, crazier the better

29. You're a Genius all the time

30. Writer-Director of Earthly movies Sponsored & Angeled in Heaven

 

 

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QUOTE(Brian @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 03:33 PM)
What are you talking a-boot?

:lolhitting well played :notworthy There is a comedian in the hoose!

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QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 03:37 PM)
Read Kerouac's On the Road

 

Follow his guide, I highlighted a couple things for recent college grads

1. Scribbled secret notebooks, and wild typewritten pages, for yr own joy

2. Submissive to everything, open, listening

3. Try never get drunk outside yr own house

4. Be in love with yr life

5. Something that you feel will find its own form

6. Be crazy dumbsaint of the mind

7. Blow as deep as you want to blow

8. Write what you want bottomless from bottom of the mind

9. The unspeakable visions of the individual

10. No time for poetry but exactly what is

11. Visionary tics shivering in the chest

12. In tranced fixation dreaming upon object before you

13. Remove literary, grammatical and syntactical inhibition

14. Like Proust be an old teahead of time

jack-small.jpg15. Telling the true story of the world in interior monolog

16. The jewel center of interest is the eye within the eye

17. Write in recollection and amazement for yourself

18. Work from pithy middle eye out, swimming in language sea

19. Accept loss forever

20. Believe in the holy contour of life

21. Struggle to sketch the flow that already exists intact in mind

22. Dont think of words when you stop but to see picture better

23. Keep track of every day the date emblazoned in yr morning

24. No fear or shame in the dignity of yr experience, language & knowledge

25. Write for the world to read and see yr exact pictures of it

26. Bookmovie is the movie in words, the visual American form

27. In praise of Character in the Bleak inhuman Loneliness

28. Composing wild, undisciplined, pure, coming in from under, crazier the better

29. You're a Genius all the time

30. Writer-Director of Earthly movies Sponsored & Angeled in Heaven

 

 

Read it and know the list. I feel "abstract" guidelines to creative writing are even less helpful than technical guidelines. I'd recommend Stephen King's "On Writing" far before I'd give that list to somebody. Plus there are a lot of existentialst writers that would/will disagree with just about everything on that list. Kafka? Dostoevsky? Camus? I don't think these people were in love with their lives. Or wrote in amazement of themselves.

 

It is an interesting list, though.

Edited by BobDylan

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QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 01:33 PM)
Have you thought about grad school? I think if you lack meaningful experience and/or connections in the field be prepared to be on the job search for a while. Getting your masters or phd will afford you another few years to get internships, jobs, etc. The most underutilized resource for jobs, imo, are professors. Get in the good graces with one you like, and they'll open up lots of opportunities as they normally have pretty good rolodexes.

 

Also, just so you know, the editor/publisher field is insanely competitive, at least here in Chicago. My GF is in that now, and she's the perfect 4.0 gpa, top 5 school, never paid for anything in college/grad school (tuition wise) types.

 

Grad school is probably the one thing I've crossed off my list. I absolutely hate school.

 

Your girlfriend is probably shooting a lot higher up the job shoot than I am. I don't want/need to be an editor/publisher for somebody like Penguin. And I don't plan to stay in Chicago.

 

Seems like the Peace Corps is my best opportunity to be able to write.

Edited by BobDylan

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Does anyone know how much having published works helps in a job search of this sort? I know how it relates to getting an agent and getting your foot in the door with publishing groups taking a look at your own work... but how much do employers take into consideration a writer's publishing record (when they're not looking to publish work, but rather give work)?

 

Are my published works worth putting on my resume?

Edited by BobDylan

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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 04:09 PM)
Read it and know the list. I feel "abstract" guidelines to creative writing are even less helpful than technical guidelines. I'd recommend Stephen King's "On Writing" far before I'd give that list to somebody. Plus there are a lot of existentialst writers that would/will disagree with just about everything on that list. Kafka? Dostoevsky? Camus? I don't think these people were in love with their lives. Or wrote in amazement of themselves.

 

It is an interesting list, though.

 

Of course King as made a lot more money than Kerouac ever did. It all depends on your yardstick.

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QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 06:22 PM)
Of course King as made a lot more money than Kerouac ever did. It all depends on your yardstick.

 

Yeah, but anyone with the ability to read can make sense of "On Writing." I'm sure even Ginsberg struggled to make sense of Kerouac's list. I believe in Bukowski's rule, if anything. "Don't try."

 

And King doesn't tell people how to write. He doesn't offer the "forumla" to big commercial success. At points he even admits that he doubted his "talent", his know-how, to write the book. Didn't think of himself as a great American writer. And he's not. And neither is Kerouac, for that matter. King basically says to write your ass off, read your ass off and he gives a few pointers on writing style. Example, don't write in the passive voice.

 

All I'm saying is Kerouac's list is more philosophy than anything. And it doesn't help me get a job. :P

Edited by BobDylan

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Kerouac not a great American writer?

 

Would he be in your top 10,000? 1,000? 100?

 

I'm guessing that Ginsberg, Burroughs, and the rest of that group is also not on your list of great American writers?

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