2008 General Election Discussion Thread

[HuskyCaucasian]

Anyone watching McCain's speech about MLK Jr? He's completely obscured by a crowd of umbrellas. It's pretty funny. I didnt catch the whole thing. Only the last 1 minute or so. But apperently he got heckled at the beginning.

 

PS: he is SUCH a horrible and boring public speaker.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[NorthSideSox72]

OK, since there isn't a good place to discuss McCain, or McCain versus Obama/Clinton type stuff, let's just have this new thread for that purpose.

 

This should help keep the Dem and GOP only threads a little more on point.

 

[BigSqwert]

Senator John McCain, "who says he will court the African-American vote this year and campaign in places Republicans often shun," spoke in Memphis on Friday to mark the 40th anniversary of the assassination of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

But his speech was met with boos and interruptions from many in the audience, as he apologized for repeatedly opposing the creation of a holiday to celebrate King's legacy.

 

(The image of a black man holding an umbrella over McCain's head while he gave the speech didn't exactly compliment the moment.)

 

Link with video

 

McCain voted against the creation of a holiday honoring King in 1983, a vote which was supported by a large number of Republicans. McCain claimed this week that he was largely unaware on the importance of King's work at the time, due to his Vietnam-era service overseas. Speaking on Thursday to reporters, he explained that his conversion occurred around 1990:

 

"I voted in my...first year in Congress against it and then I began to learn and I studied and people talked to me. And I not only supported it but I fought very hard in my home state of Arizona for recognition against a governor who was of my own party."

 

But McCain's voting record since 1990 doesn't support this explanation. In addition to voting to oppose a state holiday in 1987 (which he later supported) and a federal holiday in 1989, McCain voted in 1994 to cut funding for the commission that promoted King's holiday.

Edited April 4, 2008 by BigSqwert

[HuskyCaucasian]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/03/mcc...tour/index.html

On Tuesday, McCain's return to his old high school in Alexandria, Virginia, was not welcomed by all.

A student in the crowd asked him, "We're told this isn't a political event, so what exactly is your purpose in being here?"

McCain shot back, "I knew I should have cut this thing off. This meeting is over."

 

I actually wondered the same thing. He goes around talking about himself and we are expected to think this is just some "get to know who I am" tour? Why didn't he do this oh.... during 2005 or 2006? If this was just a get to know me tour, why only NOW during a presidential race?

[lostfan]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/03/mcc...tour/index.html

I actually wondered the same thing. He goes around talking about himself and we are expected to think this is just some "get to know who I am" tour? Why didn't he do this oh.... during 2005 or 2006? If this was just a get to know me tour, why only NOW during a presidential race?

That argument doesn't work against Obama, and it doesn't work against McCain, either. McCain is a politician so it's pretty obvious what he's doing.

[Balta1701]

Link.

Sen. John McCain's fundraising is picking up, relatively speaking.

 

In March, officials said he raised about $15M, his best month since early 2007 and well above his $2M-per-month pace in late 2007. The final number is still being tallied.

 

$11m came from a spurt in the campaign's high-dollar fundraising. $4m was raised through direct mail and Internet efforts.

[Balta1701]

Despite being on one of the blogs I read (and hence, coming from the left), here's a look at how the even-more-shadowy-because-they-don't-disclose-their-donors-at-all 501©4 groups, which were seemingly opened up more by a recent court ruling, are starting to chime in on the election from both sides, to the point that they may well play a larger role than the 527 groups we saw in 04, as the courts and Congress cracked down some on the 527's and donors don't like to give them millions anyway because those contributions get disclosed (and hence, open up the organization to attack based on who's funding it.)

[southsider2k5]

Despite being on one of the blogs I read (and hence, coming from the left), here's a look at how the even-more-shadowy-because-they-don't-disclose-their-donors-at-all 501©4 groups, which were seemingly opened up more by a recent court ruling, are starting to chime in on the election from both sides, to the point that they may well play a larger role than the 527 groups we saw in 04, as the courts and Congress cracked down some on the 527's and donors don't like to give them millions anyway because those contributions get disclosed (and hence, open up the organization to attack based on who's funding it.)

 

These people are going to find away to slime their enemies no matter what is done. If you squeeze them in one spot, they will move to somewhere else...

[HuskyCaucasian]

New Poll:

Obama- 46%

McCain- 45%

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_con...l_tracking_poll

 

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows Barack Obama with a statistically insignificant one-point advantage over John McCain, 46% to 45%. While that lead is statistically insignificant, it is the first time Obama has had any advantage over McCain in a month

[HuskyCaucasian]

I'd be interesting in seeing a discussion on this.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Opting_out.html

Obama's 'parallel public financing system'

Obama starts making a case for opting out of public financing:

"We have created a parallel public financing system where the American people decide if they want to support a campaign they can get on the Internet and finance it, and they will have as much access and influence over the course and direction of our campaign that has traditionally been reserved for the wealthy and the powerful," Obama said.

 

The case against this: He seems to be breaking a pledge.

 

The case for it: The world has changed, and his online, small-dollar base embodies the spirit of campaign finance reform.

 

I bolded the parts that i think are what we should talk about. I think it's a bad idea for him to break his pledge, but I really do think he has a point. The internet has really opened campaign financing to the public and not the political elite. In a way, it really is public financing.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[HuskyCaucasian]

Obama +3 on McCain according to Gallup. Nothing significant. Just an update...

[BigSqwert]

I'd be interesting in seeing a discussion on this.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Opting_out.html

 

 

I bolded the parts that i think are what we should talk about. I think it's a bad idea for him to break his pledge, but I really do think he has a point. The internet has really opened campaign financing to the public and not the political elite. In a way, it really is public financing.

I tend to agree on the principle but he'll get beaten over the head as being a flip-flopper*.

 

*God I hate that political term.

[BigSqwert]

Didn't see this one coming:

On whether McCain will take public funds in the general: "If Obama -- I mean that commitment was made a year ago. I made that commitment a year ago, and I haven’t changed. Clearly Sen. Obama has changed... I think we’d have to evaluate that at the time. You know, we will as we move closer, but again I repeat my commitment to public financing if he will, and I call on him to keep his commitment that he made a year ago, and not flip flop."

[lostfan]

McCain really isn't in any place to be calling anyone else a flip-flopper fwiw.

 

I mean cmon Mr. "Wait I don't like these tax cuts [giving a good reason for voting against them btw]... oh... wait hold on Republicans aren't trying to hear that... yay, go tax cuts [and while I'm at it I will change my original reason for voting against it because it sounds better and say I've come around]"

Edited April 11, 2008 by lostfan

[HuskyCaucasian]

McCain really isn't in any place to be calling anyone else a flip-flopper fwiw.

 

I mean cmon Mr. "Wait I don't like these tax cuts [giving a good reason for voting against them btw]... oh... wait hold on Republicans aren't trying to hear that... yay, go tax cuts [and while I'm at it I will change my original reason for voting against it because it sounds better and say I've come around]"

Republican's call Republican change in opinion a "change f mind". They then call a Democrat change in opinion a "flip-flop"

[lostfan]

Republican's call Republican change in opinion a "change f mind". They then call a Democrat change in opinion a "flip-flop"

I defended McCain on going against the status quo until he started trying to make up phantom reasons for doing it that sounded more acceptable to the far right.

[max power]

Change f mind? Never heard of it.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Democratic Party Filing Suit Against McCain

For weeks now, John McCain has broken campaign finance law by going over the spending limits that he agreed to when he opted into public financing in order to secure a loan and get his name on the ballot in several states.

 

He has unilaterally withdrawn, rather than get permission to opt-out of the system, which is something the system doesn't allow him to do. And even getting the permission to do so is impossible once he has materially benefited from it in the ways mentioned above.

 

But the FEC lacks a quorum, and as a result has not begun an investigation into the complaint the we filed back in February. However, the law allows us to file suit asking courts to compel them to act.

 

So that's exactly what we'll be doing today. I'll have a copy of our new complaint later today, after it's filed with the District Court. We're not going to stand by as John McCain, who thinks the rules apply to everybody but him, breaks the law every single day to raise money from lobbyists and special interests.

Here's the PDF file of the complaint

[mr_genius]

Anyone seen Hillary's new political tv ad? it' s pretty good

 

on a side note: what happens if J.Carter and the mighty Goracle come out and endorse Obama (as to end the race) but it doesn't work and Hillary keeps winning states?

[HuskyCaucasian]

on a side note: what happens if J.Carter and the mighty Goracle come out and endorse Obama (as to end the race) but it doesn't work and Hillary keeps winning states?

I dont think it's a matter of winning more states. It's them saying "you cant win". Realistically speaking, it is nearly impossible. It's not to say that she doesnt have support. It's to say, "you are doing no good. you are hurting us."

[HuskyCaucasian]

On March 26th, I proposed "Clean Campaign '08" on my BarackObama blog and my personal website. Well, McCain was just on Hardball and Matthews asked if he'd do what I proposed in my writing (I am not saying he ever saw my blog, but the ideas he asked him were exactly the same). McCain agreed. ROCK ON! Come on Obama. Join the Clean Campaign '08 bandwagon!

[lostfan]

On March 26th, I proposed "Clean Campaign '08" on my BarackObama blog and my personal website. Well, McCain was just on Hardball and Matthews asked if he'd do what I proposed in my writing (I am not saying he ever saw my blog, but the ideas he asked him were exactly the same). McCain agreed. ROCK ON! Come on Obama. Join the Clean Campaign '08 bandwagon!

McCain, by himself, has never really struck me as a dirty politician, and it seems like he's run a pretty clean campaign so far.

 

What you'd have to worry about is the rank-and-file GOP, they love to fight and McCain doesn't really have control over them. Although they'd be more motivated by hate for Obama than love for McCain (Hillary doesn't really count, she's already a divisive figure).

[Balta1701]

McCain, by himself, has never really struck me as a dirty politician, and it seems like he's run a pretty clean campaign so far.

Have you noted the controversy over McCain's acceptance and then departure from the public financing system over the primaries?

[lostfan]

Have you noted the controversy over McCain's acceptance and then departure from the public financing system over the primaries?

And trying to nail Obama for something? Yeah. That's not what I mean though, that's just run of the mill political BS. I'm talking about Hillary-style scorched earth take-no-prisoners tactics. I don't see that coming out of him.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I'm talking about Hillary-style scorched earth take-no-prisoners tactics. I don't see that coming out of him.

That's really my point. "Clean Campaign 08" is really aimed more at negative personal attacks. For example: a Dem ad pointing to McCain's age or a Rep. ad saying Obama is unpatriotic or Muslim.

 

If it's policy based, like abortion or Iraq, hey man, as long as it comes form the campaigns and not 527s, it's fair game to me.