GTA IV pulls Jack Thompson out of woodwork again

[lostfan]

No, it's not.

 

Child porn involves the video taping of sexual acts with a minor.

 

GTA IV involves pushing buttons and watching a television.

 

The comparison could not be further off and is ridiculous. Using child porn as an argument in any way against GTA IV is a goddamned joke.

k

 

You basically said child porn =/= GTA and therefore GTA is acceptable while child porn is not. You made a comparison. Not an argument against but a comparison. Said comparison is a valid one and IMO you are absolutely correct. Were it not correct I would be among those leading the charge to ban GTA. But because when compared to child porn, GTA and GTA-esque games fall far short of that threshhold, I'm not.

 

This is getting very close to meaningless semantics, however.

[Steve9347]

Regardless of what we may want to discuss about the game, society, etc., we need to not make this about any religion or class of people. We are coming dangerously close to personal attacks. Keep it under wraps please.

But that's just it, he was talking about Thompson, not about Christian beliefs. He didn't even say Thompson's beliefs were the scum-worthy part, he just said Thompson was. The whole thing could have been avoided if people just read the original post.

[lostfan]

there's no actual shots of people doing drugs.

Not that this changes your point but there are actually a few.

[GoSox05]

Do you believe there could be a video game created that should be banned?

 

No. I don't think there can be.

[Steve9347]

Not that this changes your point but there are actually a few.

I guess I stopped playing by that point. I'm sure it's no worse than the drug use in "Blow," "Pulp Fiction," or on select epidodes of America's most watched program CSI.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Steve9347

[NorthSideSox72]

If there's been a movie that's been banned then there could be a video game that is banned.

 

Ratings are there for a reason. In GTA IV, one can kill, there's talk of drugs, one can hear sexual acts, but that's it. There's no nudity, there's no actual shots of people doing drugs. GTA IV would be an R-rated film, hence the "MATURE" rating.

 

If a parent buys this game for their child, it's no different than letting said child watch Total Recall. Where's Thompson's quest to ban that film? Hell, there's a chick with three boobs in it!

Wanted to highlight the above in bold. This to me is a disturbing trend that has gone on for some time: violence in the extreme is more acceptable than nudity or sexuality. That, to me, is horrible. For all the uproar about Janet Jackson's nipple and nudity in the movies, I think the detrimental effect of those things pales in comparison to the effect of the great tidal wave of violence in movies and video games.

 

Not directed at you Steve, I am speaking more generally here.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

But that's just it, he was talking about Thompson, not about Christian beliefs. He didn't even say Thompson's beliefs were the scum-worthy part, he just said Thompson was. The whole thing could have been avoided if people just read the original post.

Can we just drop this part of the discussion, please?

 

[Steve9347]

Wanted to highlight the above in bold. This to me is a disturbing trend that has gone on for some time: violence in the extreme is more acceptable than nudity or sexuality. That, to me, is horrible. For all the uproar about Janet Jackson's nipple and nudity in the movies, I think the detrimental effect of those things pales in comparison to the effect of the great tidal wave of violence in movies and video games.

 

Not directed at you Steve, I am speaking more generally here.

For sure, I agree with you whole-heartedly on this point, but that's the big societal issue.

 

I was really only arguing against standards. We're all so used to violence, to blood, to all that, that Thompson making a fuss out of GTA IV is comical really.

[Texsox]

No. I don't think there can be.

Really?

Killing babies with graphic blood? Flying planes into towers? Animated sex with animals? Animated sex with kids? Torture of children, animals?

 

None of those would be banned in your world?

[Steve9347]

Really?

Killing babies with graphic blood? Flying planes into towers? Animated sex with animals? Animated sex with kids? Torture of children, animals?

 

None of those would be banned in your world?

I don't think he thought out his response.

 

Just wanted to point out that GTA IV has no children in it's world... even though I know you've reached a much broader subject.

 

I just think games should be policed the same way as movies.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Steve9347

[GoSox05]

Really?

Killing babies with graphic blood? Flying planes into towers? Animated sex with animals? Animated sex with kids? Torture of children, animals?

 

None of those would be banned in your world?

 

 

No ones made those games.

[Texsox]

I don't think he thought out his response.

 

Just wanted to point out that GTA IV has no children in it's world... even though I know you've reached a much broader subject.

 

I just think games should be policed the same way as movies.

 

Perhaps. But maybe not. He was asking who draws the line and where.

 

 

 

I'm trying to go step by step.

 

Each one of us will probably hit a line where we know the game went too far. Today, it may be only a small percentage of our society, tomorrow maybe more. But at some point society will draw the line. And some people standing on the other side of the line will call the other group scum. But a line will be drawn.

[lostfan]

No ones made those games.

No, and with good reason. That wasn't what was asked though.

[Steve9347]

Perhaps. But maybe not. He was asking who draws the line and where.

 

 

 

I'm trying to go step by step.

 

Each one of us will probably hit a line where we know the game went too far. Today, it may be only a small percentage of our society, tomorrow maybe more. But at some point society will draw the line. And some people standing on the other side of the line will call the other group scum. But a line will be drawn.

That it will. The line changes from time to time, but I think there's a certain level of decency that any game/movie should follow. To be fair, when the chick was chucked into the hole filled with hypodermic needles in Saw II, I thought that crossed a line... and the addition to "executions" in GTA IV might have approached the line.

 

Like I said, I sold the game, but I don't think it's worth this type of hubbub.

[Buehrle>Wood]

There are banned video games. Those that receive the AO rating from the ERSB...That probaly makes the video game industry the only entertainment industry to police itself like that. You probably have never heard about these games because they never have come out.

 

 

GTA4 received an M rating, and I highly doubt it deserved worse.

[GoSox05]

No, and with good reason. That wasn't what was asked though.

 

 

So where do you draw the line?

[southsider2k5]

For sure, I agree with you whole-heartedly on this point, but that's the big societal issue.

 

I was really only arguing against standards. We're all so used to violence, to blood, to all that, that Thompson making a fuss out of GTA IV is comical really.

 

I seriously doubt that just because he picked this ONE thing to fight, doesn't mean he feels that the rest of it is OK. Unless there is proof that he is OK with the rest of them, I don't see how that detracts from what he is trying to do. One person can only fight so many battles at a time. Thompson picked his battle.

[lostfan]

So where do you draw the line?

Probably pretty far before the types of (hypothetical) games in the post you quoted that was in response to you saying such a game can't be made.

[southsideirish71]

The problem is not with the rating system, its with the fact that parents will buy their children games like this no matter what the rating based on the fact that Jimmy down the street has it as well. I play a lot of first person shooters. The graphics and violence in these games shouldn't be for children, but I can tell you that on XBOX live you will encounter 8 to 10 year olds playing the game at 2 to 4am on weekends. The kids are annoying to say the least, they ask dumb questions over and over, sing for no apparent reason, and talk non stop to the point where you have to mute them. I even had a mother get on the mic and yell at some of the people playing the game because they were cursing. I asked her, why is your son who is obviously under 12 playing this game at 3am. I got the dont tell me how to be a parent routine. Now there are boundary lines that shouldnt be crossed. Outside of the chuckle factor, I havent figured out hte purpose of the hookers in GTAIV. Simulated sex acts or not, there is no purpose in the game play.

 

 

Video NSFW of the GTAIV Hooker. The simulate sex act + hooker cursing.

 

 

[lostfan]

I hate the 12 year old kids on XBL a lot. I usually end up muting them and sending them negative feedback.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I havent figured out hte purpose of the hookers in GTAIV.

It's pretty much purely in spite of Jack Thompson.

[GoSox05]

I think parents should make their kids read more books and play less video games.

[NorthSideSox72]

The problem is not with the rating system, its with the fact that parents will buy their children games like this no matter what the rating based on the fact that Jimmy down the street has it as well. I play a lot of first person shooters. The graphics and violence in these games shouldn't be for children, but I can tell you that on XBOX live you will encounter 8 to 10 year olds playing the game at 2 to 4am on weekends. The kids are annoying to say the least, they ask dumb questions over and over, sing for no apparent reason, and talk non stop to the point where you have to mute them. I even had a mother get on the mic and yell at some of the people playing the game because they were cursing. I asked her, why is your son who is obviously under 12 playing this game at 3am. I got the dont tell me how to be a parent routine. Now there are boundary lines that shouldnt be crossed. Outside of the chuckle factor, I havent figured out hte purpose of the hookers in GTAIV. Simulated sex acts or not, there is no purpose in the game play.

 

 

Video NSFW of the GTAIV Hooker. The simulate sex act + hooker cursing.

 

I hate the 12 year old kids on XBL a lot. I usually end up muting them and sending them negative feedback.

 

Whoa, hold on. When you play these games, you are on audio with other people? Wow, I didn't even know you could do that.

 

And I watched some of that video. To say that's graphic is an understatement.

 

[southsideirish71]

I think parents should make their kids read more books and play less video games.

 

Parents don't encourage their children to read a lot. I make sure my kids are read to every night, we go to book stores and have them pick out books as well as go to the library.

 

Being that said, video games are not the evil, or the bane of humanity. I have played video games from the time pong came out, to Atari 2600, Collecovision, Sega, you name it. I have had all sorts of video games. But they were age appropriate. My first person shooter gaming didnt start until I was in my 20s. I think that age appropriate problem solving video games can assist a young person with abstract thinking, hand eye coordination, and spatial recognition. But again, age appropriate is the key. My son plays PS2 with Sonic the Hedgehog and games of that ilk. He also has a Vsmile and plays educational problem solving games, that work on math, reading, and makes it fun. He is allowed to bring his portable Vsmile when we go out, so if we are at a resturaunt and their is a wait he can entertain himself. He plays his PS2 games 2 times a week. But as with most children, he loses interest in video games the minute we put the swings up in the backyard. He would rather be out in the backyard playing, that sitting in the house getting rings on Sonic anyday.

 

 

 

[southsideirish71]

Whoa, hold on. When you play these games, you are on audio with other people? Wow, I didn't even know you could do that.

 

Most online video games now have a headset where you can talk to the players in a room, or to team members of your own team. It is real time communication.