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GTA IV pulls Jack Thompson out of woodwork again

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 5, 2008 -> 01:39 PM)
Whoa, hold on. When you play these games, you are on audio with other people? Wow, I didn't even know you could do that.

 

And I watched some of that video. To say that's graphic is an understatement.

In a multiplayer-enabled game, yeah. GTA has a multiplayer mode but it's not like the main story mode which would be where all of the controversial stuff happens. In multiplayer (at least from what I played) most of it is running around on a map and killing the other players for various goals. In other words, like any other shooting game out there.

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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 5, 2008 -> 01:46 PM)
Most online video games now have a headset where you can talk to the players in a room, or to team members of your own team. It is real time communication.

Fascinating.

 

The last real-time multi-player game over the internet I played was X-Trek, which was by the way the first of its kind. That was in early college. Since then, I've tended to avoid video games, except for the occasional outing to D&B's and such. I'm honestly afraid they would just take up more of my time, because I'd end up addicted.

 

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First of all, if one kid plays violent video games 8 hours a day and the other reads Ginsberg, these kids are going to be influenced. If a parent tells a kid all day he's stupid, it will have an affect. To say that these games do not have an influence is ignoring decades of scientific research. Humans become desensitized to things. EMTs become accustomed to the smells and sounds of accidents. Soldiers become accustomed to violence and death.

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 5, 2008 -> 01:39 PM)
And I watched some of that video. To say that's graphic is an understatement.

OK, I never played that part of the game and have sold it for obvious reasons. To say I'm surprised at that video is an understatement. That was ridiculous.

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QUOTE (Texsox @ May 5, 2008 -> 01:53 PM)
Really?

Killing babies with graphic blood? Flying planes into towers? Animated sex with animals? Animated sex with kids? Torture of children, animals?

 

None of those would be banned in your world?

 

Honestly, no. I've always felt that it's up to the people viewing it to make the decision (or the parents, if that's the case). I just really don't like the sort of path censorship can start a country on.

 

Simply put, if you don't want to see it, don't.

Edited by farmteam

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QUOTE (Texsox @ May 5, 2008 -> 06:53 PM)
Really?

Killing babies with graphic blood? Flying planes into towers? Animated sex with animals? Animated sex with kids? Torture of children, animals?

 

None of those would be banned in your world?

 

This probably means we should also star going through libraries and ban any *fiction* books that contain any of the above.

 

Yep, it's the video games that makes us young whippersnappers violent.

 

Gosh damn, can David Cross please chime in right about now?

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QUOTE (farmteam @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:37 AM)
Honestly, no. I've always felt that it's up to the people viewing it to make the decision (or the parents, if that's the case). I just really don't like the sort of path censorship can start a country on.

 

Simply put, if you don't want to see it, don't.

 

Pornography on CBS after school?

 

No problem, just don't watch?

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QUOTE (Texsox @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:50 AM)
Pornography on CBS after school?

 

No problem, just don't watch?

How about Yahoo puts a link to 2 Girls 1 Cup on their front page?

 

edit: If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, nevermind.

Edited by lostfan

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QUOTE (CWSGuy406 @ May 6, 2008 -> 01:00 AM)
This probably means we should also star going through libraries and ban any *fiction* books that contain any of the above.

 

Yep, it's the video games that makes us young whippersnappers violent.

 

Gosh damn, can David Cross please chime in right about now?

You do not see a difference in an interactive video game and reading a book? There are many studies that show humans have markedly different reactions to animated or acted material versus static written words or even pictures. It seems each form of entertainment should be treated as a separate form with appropriate laws.

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QUOTE (lostfan @ May 6, 2008 -> 07:51 AM)
How about Yahoo puts a link to 2 Girls 1 Cup on their front page?

 

edit: If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, nevermind.

 

Probably somethng that should be looked at. But we would be mixing medias here.

 

So, I ask again, porn on Channel 5 after school, or censorship?

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QUOTE (Texsox @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:56 AM)
Probably somethng that should be looked at. But we would be mixing medias here.

 

So, I ask again, porn on Channel 5 after school, or censorship?

I was being semi-sarcastic and intentionally ridiculous (I assume you know that but it's hard to tell over text).

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QUOTE (Texsox @ May 6, 2008 -> 07:52 AM)
You do not see a difference in an interactive video game and reading a book? There are many studies that show humans have markedly different reactions to animated or acted material versus static written words or even pictures. It seems each form of entertainment should be treated as a separate form with appropriate laws.

 

I have played video games since pong, and have just about every single system since. I am a firm believer in that video games helps abstract thinking, spatial recognition, hand eye coordination, problem solve, and the ability to multitask. Specifically, I believe it has helped prepared me for my job as I have 7 to 8 windows open with different pieces of data, and the ability to absorb that data and find the needle in the haystack. The ability to multitask, the ability to process complex data sets, the ability to problem solve are all keys of my job.

 

Now dont get me wrong, processing a good book for knowledge is great as well. I am an avvid reader as far as technical books to keep the skillset growing. But I believe that both video games and reading help me in my job. I have my young son who is under 4 playing skill games like Sonic the Hedgehog as well as Tetris to help him with shapes and spatial recognition. He of course is not playing GTAIV and all, but age appropriate games can assist a person in their learning path.

 

 

 

 

 

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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:07 AM)
I have played video games since pong, and have just about every single system since. I am a firm believer in that video games helps abstract thinking, spatial recognition, hand eye coordination, problem solve, and the ability to multitask. Specifically, I believe it has helped prepared me for my job as I have 7 to 8 windows open with different pieces of data, and the ability to absorb that data and find the needle in the haystack. The ability to multitask, the ability to process complex data sets, the ability to problem solve are all keys of my job.

 

Now dont get me wrong, processing a good book for knowledge is great as well. I am an avvid reader as far as technical books to keep the skillset growing. But I believe that both video games and reading help me in my job. I have my young son who is under 4 playing skill games like Sonic the Hedgehog as well as Tetris to help him with shapes and spatial recognition. He of course is not playing GTAIV and all, but age appropriate games can assist a person in their learning path.

 

I agree 100% and used video games extensively as my kids were growing up as learning tools.

 

What gets frustrating is the attitude that we can have all these taboo items easily available, then blame parents if there kids are exposed to them. The same children on the board that argue against any censorship and parental control would go nuts if their parents excercised the proper controls. "You don't TRUST me!"

 

Society has to place limits. There are certain attributes of a civilized society. There are certain restrictions that are for the majorities benefit.

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QUOTE (Texsox @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:13 AM)
I agree 100% and used video games extensively as my kids were growing up as learning tools.

 

What gets frustrating is the attitude that we can have all these taboo items easily available, then blame parents if there kids are exposed to them. The same children on the board that argue against any censorship and parental control would go nuts if their parents excercised the proper controls. "You don't TRUST me!"

 

Society has to place limits. There are certain attributes of a civilized society. There are certain restrictions that are for the majorities benefit.

 

I believe those restrictions are already in place with the rating system. As long as retailers abide by the selling restrictions and parents actually act like parents this wouldnt be a problem. Underage kids shouldnt get their hands on a game like GTAIV, as they shouldnt get their hands on "backdoor sluts VII DVD" ( Southpark reference). It seems that parents today are trying more and more to be buddies than authority figures.

Edited by southsideirish71

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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:20 AM)
I believe those restrictions are already in place with the rating system. As long as retailers abide by the selling restrictions and parents actually act like parents this wouldnt be a problem. Underage kids shouldnt get their hands on a game like GTAIV, as they shouldnt get their hands on "backdoor sluts VII DVD" ( Southpark reference). It seems that parents today are trying more and more to be buddies than authority figures.

But not all parents set the same standards. And it always trickles down. The 18 year old is allowed to play the game, his younger brother is also home, mom and dad are away, do you really think younger brother isn't going to play? Then what if younger brothers' friend comes over. How am I as a parent going to know what video games that family owns? I want a list of all the video games in that house?

 

It is really easy to say, make the parents be parents. But as a society we keep stacking the deck against parents.

 

Imagine a parent of a 17 year old. I want to call your girl friends parents and get a list of movies, video games, and books in their house. Oh, and what premium movie channels they subscribe to and to be certain they are locked out when you are there.

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QUOTE (Texsox @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:28 AM)
But not all parents set the same standards. And it always trickles down. The 18 year old is allowed to play the game, his younger brother is also home, mom and dad are away, do you really think younger brother isn't going to play? Then what if younger brothers' friend comes over. How am I as a parent going to know what video games that family owns? I want a list of all the video games in that house?

 

It is really easy to say, make the parents be parents. But as a society we keep stacking the deck against parents.

 

Imagine a parent of a 17 year old. I want to call your girl friends parents and get a list of movies, video games, and books in their house. Oh, and what premium movie channels they subscribe to and to be certain they are locked out when you are there.

 

 

So are you saying that if some form of media isn't say kid friendly that is shouldn’t be allowed to be put out?

 

 

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QUOTE (Texsox @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:28 AM)
But not all parents set the same standards. And it always trickles down. The 18 year old is allowed to play the game, his younger brother is also home, mom and dad are away, do you really think younger brother isn't going to play? Then what if younger brothers' friend comes over. How am I as a parent going to know what video games that family owns? I want a list of all the video games in that house?

 

It is really easy to say, make the parents be parents. But as a society we keep stacking the deck against parents.

 

Imagine a parent of a 17 year old. I want to call your girl friends parents and get a list of movies, video games, and books in their house. Oh, and what premium movie channels they subscribe to and to be certain they are locked out when you are there.

 

The same thing happened with my older brother and R-rated movies. My parents wouldn't let him see them until he was 17. That didn't stop him from seeing the latest Friday the 13th at his friend's house. Should we have not allowed r-rated movies because some under the age of 17 will watch them?

 

We live in a free society. That comes with some costs.

Edited by StrangeSox

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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:07 AM)
I have played video games since pong, and have just about every single system since. I am a firm believer in that video games helps abstract thinking, spatial recognition, hand eye coordination, problem solve, and the ability to multitask. Specifically, I believe it has helped prepared me for my job as I have 7 to 8 windows open with different pieces of data, and the ability to absorb that data and find the needle in the haystack. The ability to multitask, the ability to process complex data sets, the ability to problem solve are all keys of my job.

 

Now dont get me wrong, processing a good book for knowledge is great as well. I am an avvid reader as far as technical books to keep the skillset growing. But I believe that both video games and reading help me in my job. I have my young son who is under 4 playing skill games like Sonic the Hedgehog as well as Tetris to help him with shapes and spatial recognition. He of course is not playing GTAIV and all, but age appropriate games can assist a person in their learning path.

That's a great post.

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QUOTE (GoSox05 @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:50 AM)
So are you saying that if some form of media isn't say kid friendly that is shouldn’t be allowed to be put out?

Can we really not see the difference between (as of now, hypothetical) child porn in games and R-rated movies? If not then I honestly don't know what the hell we're talking about anymore.

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QUOTE (lostfan @ May 6, 2008 -> 08:15 AM)
Can we really not see the difference between (as of now, hypothetical) child porn in games and R-rated movies? If not then I honestly don't know what the hell we're talking about anymore.

 

Read Tex's post. He wasn't talking about child porn in games, but Mature-rated games that kids under 18 will get their hands on.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 6, 2008 -> 10:18 AM)
Read Tex's post. He wasn't talking about child porn in games, but Mature-rated games that kids under 18 will get their hands on.

I mean "we" collectively because this argument seems to be going all over the place.

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The points I have offered so far.

 

Society has always censored, and always will. We draw lines and enforce them. And we draw new lines as appropriate.

 

Different media needs different laws and different boundaries.

 

We have and will continue to produce works that are over the line and society will ban them.

 

While it is easy to say, make parents be parents, there are serious problems and practical concerns. The best of parents cannot be with their children 24/7. We cannot continue to make these items so readily available and then dump it on parent's laps. Surround the kid with taboo items and they will get access. Promote the forbidden on TV, radio, newspapers, web sites, magazines, and it builds demand in the kids. We have stacked up the odds so far against parents it is time to actually help parents in some way.

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I don't know where I stand on this.

 

I had a good mom, and she bought me GTA for playstation 2 when it came out. I don't think she really knew what was all in that game. Nowadays, I don't really play video games and have no desire to get this game. I completely agree that this is disgustingly sexist, grossly violent, all that. Grew out of it I suppose, had parents that gave me first hand experience how to treat people.

 

However, I worry about bringing back that the rule of censorship that the work will be based on how it would affect young or unstable minds.

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