lostfan Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:20 PM) Because murderers were always at one point law-abiding citizens. If I wanted to I could murder someone with a steak knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 12:22 PM) If I wanted to I could murder someone with a steak knife. Gun crime is much higher than steak knife crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Remember everyone, I'm probably the most liberal person on this site so take my criticisms with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:23 PM) Gun crime is much higher than steak knife crime. I'm just saying, besides making it more convenient, I don't buy the argument that having a gun makes someone more prone to comitting a crime. If you want to kill someone you can do it with or without a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:18 PM) Well they can be used for murder as well. And IMO that's a very outdated line of thinking. I'll end it at that. I realize I'm severely outnumbered in this forum. The thing is that same arguement can be applied to all of the amendments. The forefathers never imagined things like big business, abortion, terrorists without governments, transportation that rendered state-lines pointless, etc. Arguments could be made that domestic spying should be legal based on the same style of arguement that the absolute freedom of speech is outdated in a day where we have to worry about terrorism around every corner. You could pick any of the bill of rights amendments and make arguements that parts of it are outdated based on the changes over the last 230 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 "Shot down", ha-ha. What an unfortunate pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 12:26 PM) The thing is that same arguement can be applied to all of the amendments. The forefathers never imagined things like big business, abortion, terrorists without governments, transportation that rendered state-lines pointless, etc. Arguments could be made that domestic spying should be legal based on the same style of arguement that the absolute freedom of speech is outdated in a day where we have to worry about terrorism around every corner. You could pick any of the bill of rights amendments and make arguements that parts of it are outdated based on the changes over the last 230 years. I can't think of any other amendment that can directly get me killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:28 PM) I can't think of any other amendment that can directly get me killed. Abortion and the death penalty come to mind. Terrorism could also kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 12:30 PM) Abortion and the death penalty come to mind. Terrorism could also kill you. But the 2nd amendment empowers you as an individual to have the ability to easily kill people. The guy in the next cubicle could be completely sane and law-abiding. He can have a terrible week where his wife leaves him, he loses his job and decides to come to work and shoot up the office and kill me as he's doing it. The other things you mentioned do not provide American citizens an easy way to kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 02:30 PM) Abortion and the death penalty come to mind. Terrorism could also kill you. McDonalds could kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:35 PM) McDonalds could kill him. Ah yes. The McGriddle Amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 12:35 PM) McDonalds could kill him. Indeed. Thank God I haven't been to one in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:34 PM) But the 2nd amendment empowers you as an individual to have the ability to easily kill people. The guy in the next cubicle could be completely sane and law-abiding. He can have a terrible week where his wife leaves him, he loses his job and decides to come to work and shoot up the office and kill me as he's doing it. The other things you mentioned do not provide American citizens an easy way to kill me. Abortion doesn't provide an easy way to kill a baby? There are a lot of people who really believe that. One of the first lines in the declaration of Independence guarentees LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The lack of a wiretap could allow terrorists to plan to attack American's at will, without fear of being spied on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 12:28 PM) I can't think of any other amendment that can directly get me killed. None of them can. Your neighbor owning 50 guns isn't going to get you killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) None of them can. Your neighbor owning 50 guns isn't going to get you killed. And it may keep you alive and your property safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) None of them can. Your neighbor owning 50 guns isn't going to get you killed. Tell that to the neighbor of the VA Tech gunman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 03:06 PM) Tell that to the neighbor of the VA Tech gunman. So if guns are made illegal how are you so sure that someone still can't get a hold of a gun and go on a shooting spree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 02:06 PM) Tell that to the neighbor of the VA Tech gunman. All of those scenarios involve one common thread. A person who wants to kill people. Banning guns isn't going to stop people who want to really kill people. It takes that person to pull the trigger, just like it takes a person to pull the switch on his suicide vest, a person to administer the lethal injection, the person to administer the aborotion etc. All of the scenarios are the same type of things you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 02:06 PM) Tell that to the neighbor of the VA Tech gunman. Owning guns didn't get anyone killed. Someone going nuts got people killed. He could have just built a simple pipe bomb and done the same thing. And, on the other hand, say we had a trained, armed student in one of those classrooms. Now the killer is dead quickly instead of being able to kill 30 people while we wait for the police to show up. A gun is nothing more or less than a tool. Edited June 26, 2008 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 01:10 PM) So if guns are made illegal how are you so sure that someone still can't get a hold of a gun and go on a shooting spree? Very stiff penalties for anyone caught carrying a gun? I dunno. I'm no expert on these matters. Just sharing my personal opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 02:14 PM) Very stiff penalties for anyone caught carrying a gun? I dunno. I'm no expert on these matters. Just sharing my personal opinions. If you're going to kill 30+ people, I think its safe to say that you won't give a damn about some penalties. Look at drugs. There are very, very stiff penalties for possessing even small amounts (longer sentences than shooting someone!). Does that stop it from being a multi-billion dollar industry in this country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I'm not trying to be a troll or anything. Just have a strong anti-gun belief system. There's really nothing else I can add to that. I respect all of your opinions on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 03:19 PM) I'm not trying to be a troll or anything. Just have a strong anti-gun belief system. There's really nothing else I can add to that. I respect all of your opinions on the matter. Who says you're being a troll? I don't find anything wrong with your opinion. Personally I wish we didn't have guns, but we do. It's a fact of life. I don't think banning guns from people who would otherwise obey the law does anything constructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 02:19 PM) I'm not trying to be a troll or anything. Just have a strong anti-gun belief system. There's really nothing else I can add to that. I respect all of your opinions on the matter. Troll. Actually, BS, you're being very respectful in your disagreements, and it's appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 26, 2008 -> 02:21 PM) Who says you're being a troll? I just didn't want people to associate my responses to some of the less cordial things I might have posted in other 'buster topics. I tend to get a bit hot-headed at times...which could cause this snowman to melt --> (Could never figure out how I could use that icon until now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts